In Biowares defense, Tatooine is a damn huge planet, but I see your issue weather I agree with it or not. But we know nothing of the new planet and what content will coke aside from tidbits. WoW has been doing fine with 5 level expansion packs and one new continent per pack. From what Ive played so far, Tatooine would be compareable to Northerend, and Im not done all its areas yet.

 

We should wait and see before complaining.

 

Is Tatooine the same size as Northrend, my perceptions are sometimes off but I suspect not, in fact no where near in my opinion. However if we for a moment believe that it may be the same size in total, remember you can only visit half of it as either faction whilst Northrend is open to both factions, therefore effectively twice the size even in the unlikely event that you are correct.

In response to Polyneux

 

Nice diatribe there mate.

 

The problem as I see it is that an expansion is vitally important to an MMO, especially the first one. Why, well usually all updates are aimed at the end game level so if many people don't buy it then to be perfectly honest what is the point in them continuing to sub?

 

In WoW there are a small number of people who stick at certain expansions, because they prefer that content, however WoW has the population to be able to carry that off, unlike SWTOR.

 

If BW/EA mis-manage this expansion it is my opinion that a large expansion, including space/class quests and all the stuff that people are looking forward to will be years in the future, if ever.

I still stand by what I said, I don't feel that this is a proper expansion but more like a paid patch. I do like this game and will more than likely buy it to keep playing but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal and call EAware out on their bs. Like how the deadline for pre order bonus is the 7th yet they have given us next to no information on what is to be included besides leveling five levels...seems like a really shady business decision.

Is Tatooine the same size as Northrend, my perceptions are sometimes off but I suspect not, in fact no where near in my opinion. However if we for a moment believe that it may be the same size in total, remember you can only visit half of it as either faction whilst Northrend is open to both factions, therefore effectively twice the size even in the unlikely event that you are correct.

 

Actually you can go anywhere except for the other side's landing area and any place that is considered to be an exhaustion zone. So you can uncover the entire area of Tatooine but you can't physically go to Anchorhead if you are Imperial or Mos Ila if you are a Republic Player. Now while you can't just walk into certain areas that is behind Level 50 Factional NPC's protecting the areas, you are able to get their updates

I still stand by what I said, I don't feel that this is a proper expansion but more like a paid patch. I do like this game and will more than likely buy it to keep playing but it doesn't mean I can't be vocal and call EAware out on their bs. Like how the deadline for pre order bonus is the 7th yet they have given us next to no information on what is to be included besides leveling five levels...seems like a really shady business decision.

 

And what would it need to be considered a "proper" Expansion by your "definition"?

And what would it need to be considered a "proper" Expansion by your "definition"?

Enough content to last one or two weeks minimum.

And what would it need to be considered a "proper" Expansion by your "definition"?

 

I think 3-4 times the size of Belsavis would do it, something like Ruins of Kunark or Scars of Velious or Mines of Moria or BC.

 

Also maybe including something like legendary weapons or a new class etc.

.

 

Speaking about RotHC as an expansion, we already know that it will feature a planet of the size of the said Tatooine. How tightly it will be filled with content we have no idea. We already know that it will feature 5 more levels, but how much exp will be required we have no idea. We already know that it will NOT feature any new FP's, OP's, new difficulty modes and new PvP areas (state of the game #2).

So, in my opinion, we can safely assume that all we are going to get is a standard TOR planet excluding class storylines with one or two daily quest hubs on it. And maybe a couple of minor features like Cathar species on cartel market.

 

 

 

Given that it is about the size of Belsavis, I can't see how it can be much more tightly packed. For example planet of Belsavis's size that had twice the number of quests would feel like a sardine can IMO.

 

 

But we'll have to see.

According to torhead, there are around 220 quests on Tatooine total:

http://www.torhead.com/index.php/missions/catg/1/subcatg/16

Here you can see my WoW character's Northrend quest achievements, which show the number of quests done in each subzone:

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/nordrassil/Trollok/achievement#96:14863

If you calculate them all, you'll get a number of 875 quests total.

 

Regarding Northrend, that's 875 quests for 1 faction, or double that for the entire expansion.

 

Regarding Tatooine, that includes 8 classes worth of class quests, which we know will not be included in Makeb. I did a post where I looked at Hoth http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=578851 and found that 28% of the quests were class quests.

 

If that percentage is true for Tatooine, then it has 158 non-class missions on it. Compare that to the 1750 quests in Northrend.

 

We might expect Makeb to be 9% the size of Northrend.

 

That's without even starting to have a discussion about new raids, dungeons, battlegrounds, open world pvp area (complete with daily pvp quests and a new pvp vehicle mechanic), flying mounts, a new class, a completly new crafting profession, a new phasing mechanic, and a major overhaul of each classes abilities (each of which were part of the World of Warcraft "expansion").

 

On the one hand, Northrend is a Blizzard product. World of Warcraft generates tens of millions of dollars every month. It's patently unfair to compare what they do to what Bioware, 13 months into managing its first MMO, does. On the other hand, calling a planet the size of Tatooine or Hoth an "expansion" is pretty incorrigible.

 

It is, in fact, incorrigible enough that it is the sole reason I have decided to unsubscribe from the game.

Regarding Northrend, that's 875 quests for 1 faction, or double that for the entire expansion.

 

Regarding Tatooine, that includes 8 classes worth of class quests, which we know will not be included in Makeb. I did a post where I looked at Hoth http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=578851 and found that 28% of the quests were class quests.

 

If that percentage is true for Tatooine, then it has 158 non-class missions on it. Compare that to the 1750 quests in Northrend.

 

We might expect Makeb to be 9% the size of Northrend.

 

That's without even starting to have a discussion about new raids, dungeons, battlegrounds, open world pvp area (complete with daily pvp quests and a new pvp vehicle mechanic), flying mounts, a new class, a completly new crafting profession, a new phasing mechanic, and a major overhaul of each classes abilities (each of which were part of the World of Warcraft "expansion").

 

On the one hand, Northrend is a Blizzard product. World of Warcraft generates tens of millions of dollars every month. It's patently unfair to compare what they do to what Bioware, 13 months into managing its first MMO, does. On the other hand, calling a planet the size of Tatooine or Hoth an "expansion" is pretty incorrigible.

 

It is, in fact, incorrigible enough that it is the sole reason I have decided to unsubscribe from the game.

 

 

It is, whilst I suspect I know the reason for their PR department choosing the language used, I think they'd have been better being a bit more honest and calling it an "adventure pack", or something along those lines.

If they aren't certain enough about what's going to be in the game to tell us, how do they know it's worth ten dollars? Did they just pick a number from thin air? Why would they put a product up for sale and allow us to order it if they don't know when it's coming out or even what it comes with?

 

Sounds like kind of a scam to me...

 

Then don't buy it.

 

/thread

Regarding Northrend, that's 875 quests for 1 faction, or double that for the entire expansion.

 

Regarding Tatooine, that includes 8 classes worth of class quests, which we know will not be included in Makeb. I did a post where I looked at Hoth http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=578851 and found that 28% of the quests were class quests.

 

If that percentage is true for Tatooine, then it has 158 non-class missions on it. Compare that to the 1750 quests in Northrend.

 

We might expect Makeb to be 9% the size of Northrend.

 

That's without even starting to have a discussion about new raids, dungeons, battlegrounds, open world pvp area (complete with daily pvp quests and a new pvp vehicle mechanic), flying mounts, a new class, a completly new crafting profession, a new phasing mechanic, and a major overhaul of each classes abilities (each of which were part of the World of Warcraft "expansion").

 

On the one hand, Northrend is a Blizzard product. World of Warcraft generates tens of millions of dollars every month. It's patently unfair to compare what they do to what Bioware, 13 months into managing its first MMO, does. On the other hand, calling a planet the size of Tatooine or Hoth an "expansion" is pretty incorrigible.

 

It is, in fact, incorrigible enough that it is the sole reason I have decided to unsubscribe from the game.

 

You won't be able to gain 5 levels with the number of quests they had on Tattooine- not at level 50 at least.

 

If you can hit level 55 from just questing, that'd be more than enough.

 

Also- Northrend was, what, 50 bucks when it came out? And a second xpac for a game with supposedly 10 times as many subs as this game has?

 

If this game has a quarter of the content of Northrend it'd be worth it- most games end up having smaller expansions that cost less and are released more often when they aren't doing well enough to develop a 50 dollar expansion to release all at once.

 

Also- many people prefer paying small amounts often for small xpacs over paying a large lump suddenly- I for one would prefer to have small, staggered xpacs. This is definitely much more than just a content update- we've never just gotten a planet and extra levels- at most a content update so far has been 5-10 daily quests, and the occasional FP, operation or WZ.

 

 

The title says one planet isn't an expansion- yet other than WoW almost every mmo I know of has released small expansions with small content updates- and dozens of people in this thread have even pointed them out.

 

I bought the DDO expansion recently- it was maybe a dozen quests total.

Then don't buy it.

 

/thread

 

OMG, I was completely and absolutely dumbfounded as to how to handle this perplexing scenario. Without your timely, sage advice I likely would have been wallowing in indecisive ignorance for days, if not weeks. Thank you for pointing out this brilliant course of action, your wisdom is miraculous.

OMG, I was completely and absolutely dumbfounded as to how to handle this perplexing scenario. Without your timely, sage advice I likely would have been wallowing in indecisive ignorance for days, if not weeks. Thank you for pointing out this brilliant course of action, your wisdom is miraculous.

 

I'm willing to bet you'll still be doing that until the expansion's out.

 

Also- many people prefer paying small amounts often for small xpacs over paying a large lump suddenly- I for one would prefer to have small, staggered xpacs.

 

 

The problem with adventure packs is that they are fine as adventure packs, but they are NOT replacements from true expansions.

 

You couldn't have released Mines of Moria, for example, as a series of adventure packs and retained the same scope or feeling it had, it would have been something much lesser if broken up like that.

 

And there in lies the problem, grand expansive.... er... expansions are GREAT, they are something very different from adventure packs, but adventure packs can never replace them.

Edited January 5, 2013 by Goretzu

I'm willing to bet you'll still be doing that until the expansion's out.

 

I'm fairly certain he already bought it, but is too ashamed to admit that.

Makeb was meant to be a game update originally and I'm sure the majority of other features/content that come in this "expansion" were also meant to be simple game updates/patches. ea/bioware ran into trouble and had to hold onto what they already had done for staggered release as they did not have the time or funds to create anything new. You think this "expansion" and current game updates are bad wait till they start releasing **** that the original swtor devs didn't create.

Sorry EAWare but a single planet is not considered an expansion for any mmo. $10 isn't a lot of money but it shouldn't cost anything to subscribers to be honest. You have made a killing with the f2p shop, it's not like you're not making money off this game already! Not to mention you can't even purchase it with CC coins, just seems to me like another nickel and dime grab from your loyal fans.

 

Man you people are so picky, idk whats wrong with so many of you on here.

You won't be able to gain 5 levels with the number of quests they had on Tattooine- not at level 50 at least.

 

If you can hit level 55 from just questing, that'd be more than enough.

 

Also- Northrend was, what, 50 bucks when it came out? And a second xpac for a game with supposedly 10 times as many subs as this game has?

 

If this game has a quarter of the content of Northrend it'd be worth it- most games end up having smaller expansions that cost less and are released more often when they aren't doing well enough to develop a 50 dollar expansion to release all at once.

 

Also- many people prefer paying small amounts often for small xpacs over paying a large lump suddenly- I for one would prefer to have small, staggered xpacs. This is definitely much more than just a content update- we've never just gotten a planet and extra levels- at most a content update so far has been 5-10 daily quests, and the occasional FP, operation or WZ.

 

 

The title says one planet isn't an expansion- yet other than WoW almost every mmo I know of has released small expansions with small content updates- and dozens of people in this thread have even pointed them out.

 

I bought the DDO expansion recently- it was maybe a dozen quests total.

Afaik Rift had a giant expansion that was bigger than the ones we got in WoW.

What do you call being able to attain 5 new levels (along with everything else they say is coming with it)?

 

A "pack"? No.

An "update"? Nope

A "patch"? No

 

An "expansion?" Survey Said? DING!

What do you call being able to attain 5 new levels (along with everything else they say is coming with it)?

 

A "pack"? No.

An "update"? Nope

A "patch"? No

 

An "expansion?" Survey Said? DING!

 

"An adventure pack with 5 Levels"?

it $10 what do you want for $10 a entire solar system?

OMG, I was completely and absolutely dumbfounded as to how to handle this perplexing scenario. Without your timely, sage advice I likely would have been wallowing in indecisive ignorance for days, if not weeks. Thank you for pointing out this brilliant course of action, your wisdom is miraculous.

 

Then don't buy it

If they aren't certain enough about what's going to be in the game to tell us, how do they know it's worth ten dollars? Did they just pick a number from thin air? Why would they put a product up for sale and allow us to order it if they don't know when it's coming out or even what it comes with?

 

Sounds like kind of a scam to me...

 

How do they know its worth 10 dollars? Lmao a couple of cartel packs are 10 dollars. You people act like they are asking you to dump your wallet. I could find 10 bucks layin around in my room. Nobody is forcing you to buy it. If your skeptical then wait. Problem solved. People will complain about ANYTHING.

Man you people are so picky, idk whats wrong with so many of you on here.

 

I guess I should lower my expectations, it is EA after all.