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DNT Discusses the Roadmap


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I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content.

 

I don't think this is correct. In my experience, there are people at all levels (of clearing PVE group content, say, as that's what this thread is about) who spend lots on the CM, and people at all levels who steer clear.

 

I don't know the percentages of different populations, but I'd assume anyone who with any regularity clears any level of op would be retained longer with more ops. What makes business sense, I admit I don't know, but I'd guess there's a sizable population who, if you removed the various things to work on / aspire to in terms of clearing content (and this is varied and different for players at different pve-group-content levels), would no longer stick around.

Edited by cxten
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Based on the latest EA earnings report majority of this game's revenue comes from Cartel Market. I believe people whop mostly spend money in Cartel Market is the lowest level casual player who is attached to Star Wars concept/brand and prefer to play only easiest content.

 

I disagree. Only Bioware would have the actual data, but I expect most casual F2P players are only going to buy the bare minimum from the CM - character slots, quick bars, artifact gear and escrow unlocks, etc. Maybe an occasional unlock for an operation. But I'd be shocked if F2P accounts spend more than $10/mo on the game on average.

 

The subscribers who spend a hundred of hours or more per month playing various alts are the ones most likely to want the latest CM mounts, emotes, chairs, gadgets, and gear. Much like taxes, I'd guess 80% of the CM revenue is generated by 20% of the players. I know in my own guild, there are players who spend (or used to, anyway) $50 to $80/mo in the CM beyond their subscription fee.

 

My question is, will GSF, NiM DF/DP, a new WZ, and 2-3 new FPs enough to keep that 20% happy and playing for the next 6 to 8 months? Bioware is pretty much betting the farm that it will be. GSF is certainly popular, the statistics from torstatus show a small, stable increase in activity since early access went live, excluding the randomness of the holidays. So maybe they are right, I dunno.

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I disagree. Only Bioware would have the actual data, but I expect most casual F2P players are only going to buy the bare minimum from the CM - character slots, quick bars, artifact gear and escrow unlocks, etc. Maybe an occasional unlock for an operation. But I'd be shocked if F2P accounts spend more than $10/mo on the game on average.

 

 

When I say casual players I do not mean f2p but I believe there is a significant portion of subs who are casual players, not doing end game content (ops or hm fps) leveling alts and mostly playing the game as a single player game. you guys I think underestimate the barrier of entering into an ops group even with a guild support. I know a lot of people in my guild don't do any ops or hard mode fps.

Edited by tanerb
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It maybe hard to accept but this is not a game for hardcore raider. (Darn it is not even for an amateur raider) This game will be dumbed down with one purpose, milking the CM spending audience.

 

I don't think it's quite that dramatic, but you probably have the right overall idea. They are clearly making money off the CM, but it seems like they are mostly still working with a skeleton crew developer team. They just haven't put money into rehiring(enough) after their mass layoffs. Now we have a relatively small team of developers trying to continue making content for a huge WoW size MMO. They just don't have the resources to keep up. They either need to focus on a smaller number of things or hire more people.

 

We just don't know if they are just being cautious with development for the game or if ultimately they are happy milking the CM while doing a slow-drip content release schedule. EA ultimately holds the keys...

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When I say casual players I do not mean f2p but I believe there is a significant portion of subs who are casual players, not doing end game content (ops or hm fps) leveling alts and mostly playing the game as a single player game. you guys I think underestimate the barrier of entering into an ops group even with a guild support. I know a lot of people in my guild don't do any ops or hard mode fps.

 

Ah yes, I misunderstood you. Sorry.

 

I don't have a good sense for how many people avoid anything other than the solo leveling content. I'd like to believe that the SM ops are approachable enough that anyone with any interest in them at all would join one of the dozens of pug groups that form each night.

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Interesting feed. "Casual $h!tties" is how you describe a majority of the player base... okay then. :( While I do agree we have an over abundance of crappy players in the game it doesn't really warrant a classification of everyone that does NOT clear new content (NIM mostly) the first week. While I do love watching you guys play/chat you all came across as pretty elite aholes just now. Don't see any other progression guilds doing that type of public bashing of fellow players (Hatred, Intrepid, Severity, etc). Classy it up folks and pull your pants up as your sith is showing.

 

Several Semi-Hardcore guilds I know have cleared DP/DF 100% and farming for several weeks now. So those same guilds are also pretty pissed off about the new content schedule. Most will go into NIM and work on a couple bosses as well, but likely only partially clear a bulk of them until gearing catchs up as well.

 

I agree that END GAME PVE sucks and BW has dropped the ball on this timeline. Some folks don't give a crap about NIM content and will basically BAIL OUT until 2.8 drops and/or the new level(s)/Planets/OPS.

 

I agree with CARL that spreading out DP and DF by 8 weeks is a good idea. Concentration on a single OP makes it easier for teams to tackle and conquer. The other reason being... BUGS, BUGS and I'm sure more BUGS for BW to fix once it's released. Now if BW can just pull it's head out of its REAREND and fix the HM/NIM unlock we might actually have "TRUE Progression" to the finish line for all the world firsts. (Not just a drop to HM then NIM on overtuned or "Mathmatically impossible" boss fights)

 

GEARING? What's that about in the new 2.7 update? We going to see the same BS we did with NIM content last time? Dropping 75's and then immediately useless when new HM's came out. That was a complete slap in the face to a great many people that did all the 75 content and BIS to have Ultimate Comm's able to purchase better in a single day.

 

CRAFTING? I'm willing to bet that 2.7 is NOT going to allow 78's to be craftable. Reason being they need to some how level up the types of crafting materials and such that will most likely be part of a new leveling Expansion.

 

While I don't agree with your level of respect you give to the "Casual" players I have to agree with most of your comments and ideas on what BW is doing things WRONG. This released timeline for those players skills some place between FP's and NIM is pretty crappy and most likely going to bleed some SUB's until 2.8 comes out. I think too much emphasis was placed on GSF with CM saving the day. Hopefully its a giant financial windfall for BW and they get PVE Operations back in line with some real scheduled releases. EOSL will most likely take some players, but I'm also hearing they have planned an extremely aggressive content release timeline. Maybe BW can hire some of them cause somebody has dropped the *** stick on the heads of someone in Austin too many times. Might be the same person that thinks Sage/Sorc are OP in PVP Arenas.. LOL

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Don't take it personally, we call each other bad all the time.

 

I don't.. :D our guild chat is usually filled with "you scrub... I ain't healing your squishy SIN tank anymore..."

 

Just grouping a BULK of the "Causal" players as $hitty.. is not a fair title. Lots of RAID Awareness that comes with experience and group composition really plays a BIG factor in clearing NIM content. Trusting each other, communication and good ole fashion "Move out of that bad circle under you" come into play. I've run with several guilds and some are professional and very excellent, some need walkers and some have good folks but struggle to get the composition just right.

Edited by dscount
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I don't.. :D our guild chat is usually filled with "you scrub... I ain't healing your squishy SIN tank anymore..."

 

Just grouping a BULK of the "Causal" players as $hitty.. is not a fair title. Lots of RAID Awareness that comes with experience and group composition really plays a BIG factor in clearing NIM content. Trusting each other, communication and good ole fashion "Move out of that bad circle under you" come into play. I've run with several guilds and some are professional and very excellent, some need walkers and some have good folks but struggle to get the composition just right.

 

They could have gone with "Nan marōdā" (Winkso! ;) ) or "Those of lesser perception" its just a nickname they use in their guild. Looking past that the opinions are shared by quite a few people.

 

Multiple guilds who previously competed in progression raids are experiencing difficulties keeping groups interested in raiding with the current set of content. Having to wait until April and then June for a new difficulty but nothing new isn't really that appreciated by many. Especially with games such as ESO / Wildstar etc coming up.

________________________________________

Nobody cheated. News posts are not "fake." Forum thread rules do not invalidate kills that actually happened. It's attitudes like yours that make me, and many others in DNT, dismissive of progress tracker threads in general.

 

Not copying the whole previous quote ...

 

The way I see it World First full clear went to us, first kill on a number of bosses went to DNT due to skipping. Thats the system that was in place by BW. Thats the way it is. Had 2nd boss not been killed that first week and BW had subsequently nerfed it and it was then cleared it wouldn't really be any different.

Will never be able to tell had you not skipped whether you could have killed it before us.

All I really care about personally is who killed the hardest boss in the game. At that time it was 2nd boss. Most likely because I was part of the group who killed it. Don't get me wrong I still find the 'Mathematically impossible' thing funny :p

 

(When I say us I'm referring to the group that was in on the kill)

 

Lets all try and encourage more participation in the competition not drive people away from it. Past is behind us and NIM is a long way off.

Edited by Solar_Breeze
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So in any topic even tangentially related to DNT, are you going to constantly, literally constantly, bring up how butthurt you are about TFB?

 

Because you're getting really tiresome. Nobody cheated. News posts are not "fake." Forum thread rules do not invalidate kills that actually happened. It's attitudes like yours that make me, and many others in DNT, dismissive of progress tracker threads in general. "Oh you guys switched instances to kill Tyrans instead of Draxus and we've since found out Draxus is harder so your kill doesn't count." That's basically the attitude going around and it's really really stupid.

 

Unless somebody literally cheats during a boss fight by exploiting game mechanics in a manner unintended by the designers, we feel their kills should count. i.e. if, say, they find a way to burn Tyrans with his own inferno or whatever. Any other rules represent the threat of corruption in the system - in my opinion, the reason you and others like you feel the way you do is because you want to delegitimize actual competition.

 

If you'd just adopt our attitude towards progress you would never have to engage in a stupid discussion of what operation to do first. You know, when Burning Crusade released there were two entire tiers available at the new max level and the top tier had two separate instances with parallel progression. Somehow, the WoW community was able to make sense of it. SWTOR's PvE community needs to get on the level of maturity of 2007's WoW community.

 

The split is not the same and the previous split wasn't good either. It's just artificial stretching of content and it's insulting to our intelligence to think we're going to be satisfied with dribbles of content that will, by June, be eight months old with an extra mechanic or two and more HP/Damage.

 

Lol not exactly, but i think is quite obvious i dont really "like" quite a few people from DnT (the few that were involved in the whole TFB drama), nothing special with the guild, just those few people. i know some of your players do great posts helping the community and a lot of stuff, but as far as "progression Thread" and Progression discussions / Bioware Discussion, i find your post really Toxic for the community (not this one, but few others) specially for the end game scenario, you just always bring drama, complains and WoW to everything like you did in the past 2 Contents, so yeah cant blame me for that :S, if the Wild* hype takes you with you i woudlnt be specially sad with that lol.

 

I just said something that happened, its a shame it was you, your first 2-3 paragraph are basically answered with "this is Swtor not WoW" you guys are still so stuck with stupid things that happened on WoW. "BC this, WoTLK that" this is Swtor, nobody cares what they did. People doesnt need to adjust to 2007 WoW community, u just need to stop thinking this is WoW. The only Real fight we were given that could be compared with WoW (not really comparable, different game, gearing system and other stuff) was DG, and you didnt last 2 days.

 

So in my opinion Yes its too long for a wait but meh, i dont disagree on splitting instances, because someone would probably just skipped the rules, skip bosses something weird and ruin the progression like i thappened with TFB. because yeah DG fight was one of the most fun and challenging fights to do, and it was totally destroyed together with the whole progression thanks to all your Drama.

 

You Posted your Podcast i am giving you my opinion, whats wrong with it? that it is against you? well, what can i say, i dont have faith you guys wouldnt ruin progress again like you did with TFB if we had 2 separate Ops To clear. As simple as that, maybe i am wrong, maybe it wouldnt be you but some other guild, Maybe its not the community that needs to get the maturity of 2007 WoW like you said, but you need to Grow up / step it up (not sure about the correct Term here >.<) to Swtor 2014 and leave the past behind, if people Agree to certain rules and content is done Certain way, we all expect people to follow it, not hiding behind WoW 2007 community, becaus it isnt 2007 and it isnt the same Game.

 

Bottom line, if they deliver good content and title run that at least take us 4-5 weeks for titles like SaV, i would be happy with it until DP NiM. In fact i find it even less stressing to have 5 and then 5 bosses to do in couple of months than having 10 bosses right away IMO. i wish it would come before April 8th, ill agree with that, just keeping my hopes up that whatever they are doing after the Dread Masters story is great, great story and give us Features we need like Guild Perks and Housing/Guild Ships, stuff like that.

 

Not really too excited about this post / argument anyways or in the mood for it, so ill just let everyone else comment and not start a discussion between us two here... Nice job with your podcast/twitch w/e it was, my connection sucks to see it but some people said it was good, so Grats.!

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They could have gone with "Nan marōdā" (Winkso! ;) ) or "Those of lesser perception" its just a nickname they use in their guild. Looking past that the opinions are shared by quite a few people.

 

Multiple guilds who previously competed in progression raids are experiencing difficulties keeping groups interested in raiding with the current set of content. Having to wait until April and then June for a new difficulty but nothing new isn't really that appreciated by many. Especially with games such as ESO / Wildstar etc coming up.

________________________________________

 

 

Not copying the whole previous quote ...

 

The way I see it World First full clear went to us, first kill on a number of bosses went to DNT due to skipping. Thats the system that was in place by BW. Thats the way it is. Had 2nd boss not been killed that first week and BW had subsequently nerfed it and it was then cleared it wouldn't really be any different.

Will never be able to tell had you not skipped whether you could have killed it before us.

All I really care about personally is who killed the hardest boss in the game. At that time it was 2nd boss. Most likely because I was part of the group who killed it. Don't get me wrong I still find the 'Mathematically impossible' thing funny :p

 

(When I say us I'm referring to the group that was in on the kill)

 

Lets all try and encourage more participation in the competition not drive people away from it. Past is behind us and NIM is a long way off.

 

yeap ill agree, and within the next months we will have even more trouble so it really sucks :S. i Agree we need to find ways to Encourage people to keep playing the game instead of driving them away, not like what they say is looking to do that... But i think comments should be more towards lets keep playing and wait for nightmare to have a great competition and less "Bioware are idiots insulting us Delaying content, WoW was better, Wild* will destroy it, i am unsubbing now. QQ Orbital Nerf" lol which are the classic comments on multiple Threads at this point (not exactly from OP but in general)

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Man you guys are really into this game. I've purchased probably 1,000 cartel packs, have millions of credits and all the mounts, pretty sweet looking gear and I've just hit 32 on my first character. The change of focus is probably my fault. heh.

 

:csw_c3po:

 

That said, I strongly disagree with rules being put in place for kills. This community is small enough. At most there could be a restricted league and an unrestricted league, but I've always viewed a kill as a kill, it happened and theres not much more to it. Nobody follows this community, and you're not playing for the masses - you're playing for yourselves because you enjoy the game.

 

Any small amount of drama that comes from the few guilds on top is part of the game, doesn't need to be complicated even further, the community is too small.

Edited by KaboomzZz
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It's all your fault, Kaboomzzz >:|

YOUR FILTHY CASUALNESS HAS DESTROYED SWTOR

 

I mean, maybe right? I'm not a star wars fan, and I don't like mmos. My fun involves logging in and buying a cartel pack, running to the hub and opening all my presents in front of everyone while I dance.

 

Dom can't have the only crown.

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Gotta admit, I agree with a lot of what you're saying....

 

Not all of it, but a lot.

 

But next time you stream on a Titan 6 mount, press the red button :p

 

Edit 1: I agree with Rhom here, there is an audience between the Nightmare group and the casuals, those that do Progression, but at the same time aren't so focused on raiding. IE FIB has solidly cleared DP/DF HM officially now. With 2 groups, hopefully 3 soon, but at the same time, we've had people leave at awkward times due to IRL, which doesn't happen in guilds like Hatred, DILIH, Aurum Gaming and DNT, because it'd mess up your rotations like it sort of did for us... So yeh, there's people between :p

Edited by Selenial
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As representatives of the gaming community we should have the right to voice how we feel of this game. We as players keep this game alive, cause we all know it really isn't the F2P players who keep it alive. Yes it is made up of Casual and Hardcore gamers, but BW needs to realize they need to keep the interests of all players and not cater to just one classification. To me the game is becoming stale minus the rehashed events they keep popping in and out. It also is beginning to feel like how SWG (Star Wars Galaxies) was before it died off.

 

Introducing NiM content is a bonus but not new content. Saying before they were not going to continue the story lines of the classes is nearly a game killer. I really don't care about the companion story lines. Keeping players active is what they need to focus on and continue support to PvE and PvP players is a must.

 

As it is to keep our groups and guilds moving forward we have to do what we can to get people into the game so we need to remain positive. Right now, I know it is getting harder to recruit and if you do luck out and get someone you also need to make sure they want to move forward as well as the next guy. When it comes down to Casual or Hardcore player there is HUGE difference and some just like to get by and others want to BiS.

 

Let us band together and try to encourage more people to play instead of pushing them away but also inform BW there is more to this game than Cartel Market and lame flash points to keep peoples interest.

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Let us band together and try to encourage more people to play instead of pushing them away but also inform BW there is more to this game than Cartel Market and lame flash points to keep peoples interest.

 

Pretty much this right here, the new fp is meh and if BW is taking resources of raids to put into these "tactical flashpoints" what hope does the future of endgame raiding have

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This year will be just as difficult to maintain a raiding community as it was "in the year of EC". I've realized by now that you can't convince a player to be serious and dedicated in an MMO if he/she does not want to, there has to be self-initiative (and since this isn't a job there is no external pressure), but self-initiative in this case has to spring from the game itself. "In the year of EC" and beyond I was forced to discard my Empire guild(s) and switch to Republic ... so many raiders leaving on a monthly basis a raider has no choice but to switch allegiances on a regular basis. I really don't have the energy to witness another mass exodus of raiders and the road map doesn't convince me that it won't repeat :(

 

Someone should make a thread in this section on how to "convince" the remaining raiders to stay in the game. Maybe there's some psychological trick we could use. In our guild we're "forcing" people to become achievement hunters and when you go down the road of achievements, there is no end, it's a wonderful snare that keeps people occupied :rak_03:

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Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

 

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

Edited by tanerb
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Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

 

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

 

Because writing guides, theorycrafting, and, you know, Fridge/Rhom streaming our raids weekly wasn't enough.

I'm sorry, what?

 

I don't mean to sound like a ****, but hardcore raiders have done a lot for the SWTOR community already, and babying people through ops isn't our job. Our job is to kill challenging content in a timely manner.

 

If new players want to raid, it's, quite frankly, their job to do the research, gear up, and do their job. It's not hard to find a group of decent people to learn with, there's zarking recruitment posts all over the server forums for this ****.

 

There is no raid content in any game I've played that is more accessible than SWTOR. Accessibility isn't the issue, accessibility isn't why players leave the game. I will tell you what makes people leave the game, though...large droughts between content.

 

Nobody demands Fortune 500 CEOs to teach Business 101 courses. Why are you asking top end guilds to do the equivalent?

Edited by Beslley
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Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

 

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

 

See: The tragedy of the commons.

 

If you favor state (read: Bioware) based solutions, then increase the rewards for doing this somehow and/or provide more infrastructure for doing so. If not, then leave it up to philanthropists (read: people who help out newer players) and philanthropic organizations (read: guilds accepting newer players).

 

Sort of off topic, but since you mentioned it, here's how to be successful in a terrible pug:

 

Aside: I haven't really been running SM's since the first few weeks after 2.4 when ultimate comms were vaguely desirable and there weren't reasonable HM pugs yet to do more than the one clear with the guild. But back then I was nearly always successful in full clearing DF & DP, even with completely random groups of pugs.

 

1. Obtain ops lieutenant (or be the ops leader yourself)

2. Quickly give succinct but accurate and thorough descriptions of the fights before each fight (do not skip this with "does everyone know this fight" and then no description if nobody speaks up). Do this even if half the group is in voice chat. Maybe now that everything has been out for a while this isn't necessary, but back then it was.

3. Remind people not to rez dps. (There's always that guy that stands in the fire in the 1st 5 seconds.)

4. During the fight, when something needs to happen, type it out quickly with /oa (ops announcement, makes it show up in the middle of their screen). Essentially, you're making yourself the sort of add-on fight walkthrough that exists in other mmos. Do this really often. Like every time a kephess clone shows up on brontes, type /oa add. And then when she's at 54% "/oa stop dps on boss" to make sure nobody pushes her while a clone is up, etc.

 

4 is the key step. Do this even if you rashly skipped 2. Makes SM's vaguely amusing to have to type while doing them also, so there's that.

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Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

 

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

 

I do understand what you are saying, and I don't expect DnT to care. But, remember Hardmode Lost Island back when it was a relatively challenging flashpoint? That was a flashpoint that I ran literally hundreds of times on all my characters. Because it was a place I could meet new people; and if they were decent enough to beat the first boss (since the boss had many raid-style mechanics involved) I would want to pug operations with them.

 

I'm sure we have all noticed how insultingly sub-par every flashpoint has been since they nerfed HM LI. The tactical flashpoints are just making new players anemic. All I see advertised on POT5 chat is SM 16m ops for comms. How pathetic... Back in the day when EC HM was still the highest tier on a school day when the servers had their population crisis we would see nothing but pugs LFM 8m HM EC - gear will be inspected at the west bank. I will attest that those runs were generally successful. Many of those players were getting involved in raiding guilds and learned many different roles.

 

Meeting new players has been a pain in the last several months. So many players I used to regularly pug raids with have left the game. I'm personally hanging on my last thread with this game.

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...But, remember Hardmode Lost Island back when it was a relatively challenging flashpoint? That was a flashpoint that I ran literally hundreds of times on all my characters. Because it was a place I could meet new people; and if they were decent enough to beat the first boss (since the boss had many raid-style mechanics involved) I would want to pug operations with them.

 

I think this is a really valid and interesting point, and I want to expand upon it. This process worked because there were two tiers of FPs even though Lost Island was the only one in the 2nd tier. This basically worked to segment players based on who just wanted comms vs those who wanted to be challenged a bit more.

 

I added more people to my friends list (and ignore list) from queue pops for HM LI. If it took more than 2-3 pulls on LR-5 Sentinel Droid, you were almost assured of never finishing the FP so it was best to drop group and save on the repair bill. Still, there were plenty of times you would end up in a group who cleared the FP in 20mins, and these were often the same people I'd whisper if we needed an 8th for an Operation.

 

With the pervasiveness of 72 & 78 gear and the ease of the FPs, there is no way to find Operation-ready players.

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With the pervasiveness of 72 & 78 gear and the ease of the FPs, there is no way to find Operation-ready players.

 

This is something that frustrates me to no end. It's basically bred a large group of players that are incredibly gear reliant and couldn't come close to clearing content with the gear it's actually tuned for.

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Again, why don't you pro raiders help new 55s introduce into ops? Try organizing pug groups who are interested but never did ops because they are afraid. I am not a very talented player but I used to be part of a guild so learned all the classic ops, TfB and SaV. Now, I try to pug them. I believe there is a ton of players who want try ops but scared. First most pug organizers rightfully look for people who knows the ops. I have seen new players forced to leave because they could not understand what was going on. I have never seen all this time a pug group that has new players finish EC or SaV and only a few TfB.

 

Long story short, if you guys want Bioware invest more time into ops, the ops population needs to increase. Increasing population is everyone's responsibility and you hardcore raiders need to take the lead.

This is a really good point.

 

My guild started bringing random players through HM DF and HM DP. HM DF is on farm, so we'll carry anyone through it, teaching them mechanics and such and helping them gear up. If they're decent players, we'll also take them through HM DP (we don't quite have that one on farm enough to bring a bad player through).

 

It helps pass the time, plus we've met some interesting people.

Edited by Khevar
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