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Thoughts on Canon vs. the EU/Legends

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Thoughts on Canon vs. the EU/Legends

AidenTheLoneWolf's Avatar


AidenTheLoneWolf
07.04.2019 , 10:00 PM | #1
Hey all, with the new trilogy coming to an end this year, what are your thoughts on new canon so far? How has Star Wars changed in the past few years? I know there is a split between fans, some like canon more than legends, vice versa, some may like both. Feel free to tell me why you personally like canon or legends better. If you ask me, I was heartbroken when I realized what was happening to legends. When I take a look at Wookipedia, there is literally an article for EVERYTHING in the SW universe, and that is what I love so much about Star Wars in general; the depth of it is truly amazing. I will not say that Legends was perfect, because it wasn't, but it was something special--no other franchise had the depth of Star Wars. The layers and layers of lore made you feel like the Star Wars universe was real because of how alive it felt, and when it was thrown out...decades of work gone? Terrible. You might ask, "Well it's still there isn't it?", and yes, it is, but it might as well be gone for good; no one will make more legends content (excluding SWTOR; mad respect!), and it doesn't even matter in the SW universe anymore because it's not cannon. Some may say that authors were simply given too much freedom in the EU, but I say that is exactly the reason why Legends succeeded! I believe that when creators aren't bound, they are able to forge their best works, and lots of good things came out of that, such as KOTOR, Revan, etc. In my opinion, I think that the current cannon is shallow. I feel like cannon is simply a generic sci-fi story with laser swords, and I honestly do hope that in the next decades that cannon really becomes more in-depth and all the characters can become more developed, because frankly, I don't like many of the new characters. Let me note that I'm not discriminatory against women; I just don't like poorly-written characters, as with some of the male characters in the new cannon. Alas, I refuse to forget the EU; it will remain part of what I consider to be "cannon" regardless of what the new jurisdiction is, and one thing I ask is that everyone not forget the EU, and let it rest in peace, and here's hopes that Star Wars can become, again, one of the most sophisticated lore-based sci-fi franchises in the world again.
Just another guy who loves Star Wars.

Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
07.05.2019 , 02:40 AM | #2
I love both Canon and Legends. At first I was bit perplexed about the change in everything (basically wiping the slate clean), but this changed to excitement after I saw Rogue One and when Thrawn was introduced in Rebels season 3.
So far, I´ve liked everything new that has come out and how the Legends influences the Canon in its own way (Thrawn, Malachor and so on), while the Legends that goes on (this game in particular) takes its influence from the new things: On Jedi Under Siege, General Daeruun mentions Gatalenta and its famous tea (homeplanet of Amilyn Holdo and Joph Seastriker) while Tau Idair and Gnost-Dural have fought on Mimban (swamp planet where young Han defects from the Imperial Military during Solo).
I can understand people's frustration that the things they loved were being wiped away and being replaced with new characters who've only been here for a little while. But, the Legends had over twenty years time to bring out content that developed and made the characters into what they are in Legends. The Canon has been here for, some over four years now, and while there is content, it isn't as abundant still as it is with the Legends.
Final point, Timothy Zahn's new Thrawn-trilogy is absolutely best, definite reading recommendation for everyone who loves Thrawn or just wants to have a good read.
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
07.05.2019 , 07:34 AM | #3
I'm still salty about the reboot happening. But over the years I've grown to accept the new canon just as equally valid of a continuity as legends/old canon. Though I don't spend money on it as I believe the principle behind the reboot was wrong, and there were better ways to go about it.

Really right now I'm just looking forward to Onslaught this year as it gives me more legends/old canon content to enjoy, Star Wars issue 108 from the original marvel run was also enjoyable as well as the first legends comic book in 5 years since legacy volume II came out back in 2014.

I hope that one day legends gets continued as I believe more stories should've been told and I don't see any reason as to why legends/old canon and the new canon co-existing and flourishing side-by-side is impossible. Maybe even a crossover here and there, heck if they continue legends I'd be even willingly to give the new canon a shot.
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Telaan's Avatar


Telaan
07.05.2019 , 08:45 AM | #4
The new canon is total trash. Rogue One was good: solo was ok; TFA was questionable; TLJ was one of the worst movies I’ve seen....and that includes comparing it to the movie “quest for fire”. Rian Johnson has the talent of newborn monkey.
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
07.05.2019 , 09:15 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AidenTheLoneWolf View Post
no one will make more legends content (excluding SWTOR; mad respect!), and it doesn't even matter in the SW universe anymore because it's not cannon.
SWTOR was *never* canon.

The key point that you're overlooking is that the (large) corpus of "Legends" material isn't gone and forgotten. It's all there, but must be treated as non-canon unless the new Powers That Be decide to "lift" it into the canon. I remember distinctly that in the new way of things, the people with the power to decide that X or Y or Z is canon will be able to do so by using it in canon content. Example: all the stuff about Thrawn spent some time in Legends limbo, but is now canon, at least where it is referenced by the various bits of canon material.
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buddydogputin's Avatar


buddydogputin
07.05.2019 , 02:11 PM | #6
I consider Disney Canon to be simply Disneey's interpretation of Canon. Lucas Canon (What they call legends) is the real Canon.

MikeCobalt's Avatar


MikeCobalt
07.05.2019 , 03:20 PM | #7
I don't like this new Disney version. Removing over 40 years of Star Wars to me is essentially telling four decades of fans some of their fondest memories are trash and never happened all in an attempt to recreate those for the purpose of Capitalizing ($$$) on REcreating that in a Profitable manner. There were ofcourse many, many directions of stories and some contradicting each other but those "In Themselves", did Follow the Core Movies direction that anything From Disney was *Contractually to start "After". Most anybody could write a story that either

1, Does not Reference any Fan Created information (but does not Contradict either)
2, Does Pick & Choose the Non Movie parts they like for possible future content as a "Tie In" for Continuity purposes (Hammerhead/ Thranta cruisers)
3, Pays the deserved Homage to the Original Hero's that made Star Wars what it is enduring since 77 only based on
Movie events; A Send Off/ Passing the Torch to the next Generation.

Disneys OutRight Killing whats Made Star Wars last so long was a slap in the face to the fans business-wise all for Monetary reasons. When even the first line Actors make questionable and sometimes disparaging remarks about the work environment, it cant be good.

Rebamcfan's Avatar


Rebamcfan
07.06.2019 , 12:18 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by buddydogputin View Post
I consider Disney Canon to be simply Disneey's interpretation of Canon. Lucas Canon (What they call legends) is the real Canon.
Except that the Legends wasn't really part of Lucas Canon either. Lucas Canon is the six films, Legends is all the other video games, books and comics that sprang around the films.
"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe." -Lucas to Cinescape Magazine in July 2001

"The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?"
"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions." -Lucas during an interview with the Starlog in 2005.

But, it should be noted that he took influence from Legends in some way, even if he didn´t use it.
"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example)." -Leland Chee on starwars.com on December 2005.

**Edit 1**: Source https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon (I'm also trying a find a Tweet from Pablo Hidalgo where he talks about the matter.)
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
07.06.2019 , 08:18 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
SWTOR was *never* canon.
It was canon, secondary canon but still part of the overall continuity before 2014. So the events happened, but perhaps not in the way we've played it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rebamcfan View Post
Except that the Legends wasn't really part of Lucas Canon either. Lucas Canon is the six films, Legends is all the other video games, books and comics that sprang around the films.
"There are two worlds here," explained Lucas. "There's my world, which is the movies, and there's this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe—the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don't intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don't get too involved in the parallel universe." -Lucas to Cinescape Magazine in July 2001

"The Star Wars Universe is so large and diverse. Do you ever find yourself confused by the subsidiary material that's in the novels, comics, and other offshoots?"
"I don't read that stuff. I haven't read any of the novels. I don't know anything about that world. That's a different world than my world. But I do try to keep it consistent. The way I do it now is they have a Star Wars Encyclopedia. So if I come up with a name or something else, I look it up and see if it has already been used. When I said [other people] could make their own Star Wars stories, we decided that, like Star Trek, we would have two universes: My universe and then this other one. They try to make their universe as consistent with mine as possible, but obviously they get enthusiastic and want to go off in other directions." -Lucas during an interview with the Starlog in 2005.

But, it should be noted that he took influence from Legends in some way, even if he didn´t use it.
"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example)." -Leland Chee on starwars.com on December 2005.

**Edit 1**: Source https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon (I'm also trying a find a Tweet from Pablo Hidalgo where he talks about the matter.)
It's not that simple. George contradicts himself on whether or not he considers the EU part of or a sequel to his Star Wars, though obviously the canon hierarchy held the six movies above everything else. But it was still one continuity.

Quote:
“After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story—however many films it took to tell—was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga.”-George Lucas introduction to the 1994 reprint of splinter of the Mind’s Eye
Quote:
"GL is certainly not bound by the EU, though he's certainly open to using things created in it (Aayla Secura and the Coruscant name, for example). On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films."-Leland Chee, Continuity Database administrator aka Keeper of the Holocron for Lucas Licensing, on starwars.com December 7, 2005 (In response to the “I don’t read those books” Starlog magazine quote)
Quote:
"”Parallel universe” suggests that each universe can go in separate directions which really isn't the case with regard to the EU. The EU is bound by what is seen in the most current version of the films and by directives from George Lucas."-Leland Chee, Continuity Database administrator aka Keeper of the Holocron for Lucas Licensing, Starwars.com January, 2005
Quote:
“George Lucas says “There really isn’t any story to tell. It’s been covered in the books, and video games, and comic books which are things I think are incredibly creative.”” George Lucas Interview with the LA times, George Lucas: 'Star Wars' won't go beyond Darth Vader, May 7th, 2008
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WisherOfEternity's Avatar


WisherOfEternity
07.20.2019 , 11:38 AM | #10
'Canon' sucks. They also try to get political points in it in an quite obvious way in the new cannon parts. It's just US cultural bull********.

When it comes to the games (which are about all non-canon) and the old movies, you can have strong male and female leads without it feeling off. Where the new parts are just political grandstanding in that regard - it feels really forced.