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anesvik

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I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot. :mad:

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I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot. :mad:

 

Sounds like your, you know ... whining...

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To be fair, you aren't supposed to be able to heal through ignorance or stupidity.

 

We've had posts for weeks now talking about balance and what their targets were and why they were doing it. It's not like it's a surprise

 

But also to be fair, its always the pvp bads that shout the loudest that drive the changes.

 

"I killed that womp rat on Tatooine too fast/too slow" Said no one ever...

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Healers totally don't need a nerf. If anything they need a damage buff. And not being able to select a player level range in gf is a huge part of the problem. Bolster just encourages people to do a Leroy Jenkins. I've stopped healing the Anakins that want to force leap and force push everything they see. I just let them die and I leave them there on the floor until they quit the group or go back to the start area and get themselves straightened out. Edited by MingusPho
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I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot. :mad:

 

Having problems healing... in flashpoints? My guildmate who heals with me all the time is half asleep in every master fp, even in harder ones. I often tank in DPS gear to wake him up and he still says it's easy.

 

And if you are saying you have problems with healing people who stand inside insane damaging aoes or fail on some mechanics... Then they are SUPPOSED to die. What's the point of mechanics if you can heal through them??

 

Every. Single. Healer. Needs a nerf. Not just sorcs. Healing is overtuned and good healers can actually indeed make the group ignore some mechanics. If a dps makes a mistake and dies , it doesn't mean healers should have been able to heal him. He died and that's it. That's what combat rev or stealth rev is for. Too many people die? Wipe and restart, that's how it should be.

 

I participated in 7 man dread fortress run with ONE healer and NO tank. I 4 manned most SM ops. All that is mostly possible because of healers. (Of course DPS need have good rotation, gear and awareness for that but that's obvious).

 

Haven't done Nim after patch but HM ops are still run with sorc heals, no problem.

 

Returning to your statement about problems with heals in flashpoints... May be you are not very good, should look at that to start with.

Edited by Equeliber
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Having problems healing... in flashpoints? My guildmate who heals with me all the time is half asleep in every master fp, even in harder ones. I often tank in DPS gear to wake him up and he still says it's easy.

 

And if you are saying you have problems with healing people who stand inside insane damaging aoes or fail on some mechanics... Then they are SUPPOSED to die. What's the point of mechanics if you can heal through them??

 

Every. Single. Healer. Needs a nerf. Not just sorcs. Healing is overtuned and good healers can actually indeed make the group ignore some mechanics. If a dps makes a mistake and dies , it doesn't mean healers should have been able to heal him. He died and that's it. That's what combat rev or stealth rev is for. Too many people die? Wipe and restart, that's how it should be.

 

I participated in 7 man dread fortress run with ONE healer and NO tank. I 4 manned most SM ops. All that is mostly possible because of healers. (Of course DPS need have good rotation, gear and awareness for that but that's obvious).

 

Haven't done Nim after patch but HM ops are still run with sorc heals, no problem.

 

Returning to your statement about problems with heals in flashpoints... May be you are not very good, should look at that to start with.

 

MM FPs are not the target here. And if you are bored in this game, perhaps you are too good for this game and seek challenge somewhere else.

The target here is level 15 to 30 in Vet FPs, as a Operative/Scoundler healer I have issues healing through spikes in these as the players do not have all their skills etc.

I do not play as Sorc/Sage/Merc/Mando healers so I don't know how badly they were hit by the nerf, but I know how badly the self heal + the barrier nerf hit the Dps Sorc/Sage in PvP survivability, without getting any DPS buff in return.

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Healers totally don't need a nerf. If anything they need a damage buff. And not being able to select a player level range in gf is a huge part of the problem. Bolster just encourages people to do a Leroy Jenkins. I've stopped healing the Anakins that want to force leap and force push everything they see. I just let them die and I leave them there on the floor until they quit the group or go back to the start area and get themselves straightened out.

 

maybe you're the one who should get yourself straightened out?

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MM FPs are not the target here. And if you are bored in this game, perhaps you are too good for this game and seek challenge somewhere else.

The target here is level 15 to 30 in Vet FPs, as a Operative/Scoundler healer I have issues healing through spikes in these as the players do not have all their skills etc.

I do not play as Sorc/Sage/Merc/Mando healers so I don't know how badly they were hit by the nerf, but I know how badly the self heal + the barrier nerf hit the Dps Sorc/Sage in PvP survivability, without getting any DPS buff in return.

Healing at such low level is completely irrelevant. You have kolto stations for boss fights just for that - if you have problems. In general, healing in vet fps and on low level is completely irrelevant to the state of the classes.

 

I said nothing about being bored of the game myself. I just said that healing in flashpoints is very easy and boring for my friend healer and well, for me too if I ever get to heal these days. I prefer soloing them with a heal companion if I ever do them. Blaming issues in such content on the weakness of the class is stupid.

Edited by Equeliber
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I do not play as Sorc/Sage/Merc/Mando healers so I don't know how badly they were hit by the nerf, but I know how badly the self heal + the barrier nerf hit the Dps Sorc/Sage in PvP survivability, without getting any DPS buff in return.

 

Lightning didn't get a DPS buff, true, but Madness got a 5% increase on DM and a 5% increase on FL. And I've certainly noticed those changes. They should have increased the range on DF and buffed our passive self-heals to make it noticeable, but I has a feeling that'll all be coming in August.

 

But yeah, Static Barrier isn't worth **** anymore and should just be removed from the game. Same for Dark Heal tbh; barely makes my health bar move at this point. Survivability hasn't changed much though. The problem I have with sorc deeps is that our survivability is based on avoidance; we have to remove ourselves from the fight in order to survive, where most other ACs just seem to be able to pop endless damage reduction buffs and DCDs before they have to run off.

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To be fair, you aren't supposed to be able to heal through ignorance or stupidity.

 

Actually that is EXACTLY what healers do in every other MMORPG.

 

There's normal, everything is going as expected, healing.

And then there is "oh s**t, we got that wrong, wipe prevention healing".

A healer that can only do the former is, at best, a 2nd string support healer.

 

Having healed at raid equivalent level in WoW, LotRO and ESO I can say with certainty that SWTOR Sage/Sorc healing is cumbersome, too slow to be able to react to that "oh s**t" moment, and very lacklustre.

 

Its hard enough to get a Healer as it is, making their job even harder - just because a fair percentage of PvPers need to L2P - is counter productive and utterly stupid.

 

All The Best

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Its hard enough to get a Healer as it is, making their job even harder - just because a fair percentage of PvPers need to L2P - is counter productive and utterly stupid.

 

All The Best

 

This argument right here is what is utterly stupid.

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The kolto stations in TFPs encourage far too much laziness for my liking. I know why they exist (so teams without healers can still heal against bosses) but when you have an actual healer, trust them to do their job and leave the blasted things alone. It is intensely frustrating when I'm healing for the DPSers to randomly pop the kolto station for no discernible reason at the first sign of damage.
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This argument right here is what is utterly stupid.

 

No, it isn`t. Every f... time in every MMO the bad PVPers whine their hearts out, and the PVE crowd has to face the consquences.

I am bad at PVP, guess which classes I have killed the most- troopers and mercenaries, according to wannabe PvP pros the most op classes in the game.

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I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot. :mad:

 

It's been posted and discussed by the team and the community for weeks now. I'm assuming that you only came here after reading the patch notes.

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No, it isn`t. Every f... time in every MMO the bad PVPers whine their hearts out, and the PVE crowd has to face the consquences.

I am bad at PVP, guess which classes I have killed the most- troopers and mercenaries, according to wannabe PvP pros the most op classes in the game.

Unfortunately, for you, PvP has been a part of this game from the day it launched. Maybe you should try a PvP'less MMO...you'd probably be happier.

 

And why is that the PvPers are bad if they complain, yet here you are whining that it's harder in PvE now?

 

I'm not at all happy with the nerfs OR how they implemented them, but I understand that both PvP AND PvE live together in this game. IMO they need to make Expertise an innate stat on every character that they can tweak for PvP, without ever touching PvE performance.

 

Speaking of..since there's no possible way to parse for PvP, what do you really think they balance their numbers around? It's clearly PvE output...which negates any complaints about PvP being the reason for the nerfs...PvP complaints may have driven them to look at the numbers, but clearly the numbers reflect PvE targets, not PvP.

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I log in today and saw we go an update. Cool, a new stronghold and unlocked more of the op. BUT...

 

Nerfs across the board. Healers were doing just fine, and because pvpers whined loud enough, they get a nerf.

You know, its hard enough to heal some of the noobs in flashpoints. People that disregard mechanics and roles..

just because of the " I am not good enough to kill them in a warzone, so they need a nerf"

Thanks for messing with pve, PvPers...thanks alot. :mad:

 

No one in PvP asked for this, the dev team just ran amuck and fed up the game worse than they did last patch.

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To be fair, you aren't supposed to be able to heal through ignorance or stupidity.

 

This.

 

Every class should require a modicum of skill to do PvP / master mode Flashpoints / Operations. The way sorcerers were performing before, with them being a "jack of all trades" with not force management whatsoever, made them extremely easy to play compared to other classes.

 

I've had three healers in the last master mode flashpoints who are wondering that their force is depleting as the boss fight draws to a close. The only thing I can answer to this is that it is intended that your resource is limited after fighting for two minutes. Back before the patch, you could just hit whatever heal you wanted for any situation and clear anything below progressive content without Force issues. I'm glad this isn't the case anymore.

 

The same goes for total healing numbers. I'm glad that playing now requires slightly paying attention to what's happening. A sorc healer can't simply outheal everything anymore.

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Having problems healing... in flashpoints? My guildmate who heals with me all the time is half asleep in every master fp, even in harder ones. I often tank in DPS gear to wake him up and he still says it's easy.

 

And if you are saying you have problems with healing people who stand inside insane damaging aoes or fail on some mechanics... Then they are SUPPOSED to die. What's the point of mechanics if you can heal through them??

 

Every. Single. Healer. Needs a nerf. Not just sorcs. Healing is overtuned and good healers can actually indeed make the group ignore some mechanics. If a dps makes a mistake and dies , it doesn't mean healers should have been able to heal him. He died and that's it. That's what combat rev or stealth rev is for. Too many people die? Wipe and restart, that's how it should be.

 

My anecdotal evidence trumps your anecdotal evidence: I solo'd the last 75% of Darth Malgus in FE because he wiped the rest of the party. I was on my Jugg Tank. Soon after that, Juggs and Guardians got hit with the nerf bat. Care to show me the forum post by Malgus that brought that on? What's that you say, he didn't make one? You'd be right, of course, but you can find the cause of that nerf, over in the PvP forums. "Muh PvP is broken because I can't kill a Jugg in PvP". It's never "I'm a bad player, can someone teach me how to beat xxxx", it's "they're op, nerf 'em". It's not just here. Pick a PvPcentric game, and read their PvP forums. Substitute class names, and presto, you'd never know you weren't on these forums.

 

I participated in 7 man dread fortress run with ONE healer and NO tank. I 4 manned most SM ops. All that is mostly possible because of healers. (Of course DPS need have good rotation, gear and awareness for that but that's obvious).

 

We did the WB on DK with a 6 man party, 1 Jugg, the one I mentioned above, and 5 DPS specs with no heals right after level sync became a thing. Wait, that sort of blows up the "Healers were/are OP" narrative, sorry. Wait, no I'm not. Nerfing to accommodate bad players is a bad idea, mmkay???

 

Haven't done Nim after patch but HM ops are still run with sorc heals, no problem.

 

Returning to your statement about problems with heals in flashpoints... May be you are not very good, should look at that to start with.

 

You know, the irony of this isn't lost on anyone, right? Orbital Strike became Orbital Tickle because, you know, PvPers didn't know that they aren't supposed to stand in those red circles. The list goes on. I read the "How balance happens" post, I couldn't stop laughing at the thought that they believe anyone believes that. In order for all the nerfs over the years that I've been here to be "so we could hit target xxx for the classes" to be true, they had to just release anything, and call it good. Wake up and smell the coffee.

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This.

 

Every class should require a modicum of skill to do PvP / master mode Flashpoints / Operations. The way sorcerers were performing before, with them being a "jack of all trades" with not force management whatsoever, made them extremely easy to play compared to other classes.

 

I've had three healers in the last master mode flashpoints who are wondering that their force is depleting as the boss fight draws to a close. The only thing I can answer to this is that it is intended that your resource is limited after fighting for two minutes. Back before the patch, you could just hit whatever heal you wanted for any situation and clear anything below progressive content without Force issues. I'm glad this isn't the case anymore.

 

The same goes for total healing numbers. I'm glad that playing now requires slightly paying attention to what's happening. A sorc healer can't simply outheal everything anymore.

 

So none of your 3 healers used the sorc ability to recover resource?

 

I call BS.

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Healers totally don't need a nerf. If anything they need a damage buff. And not being able to select a player level range in gf is a huge part of the problem. Bolster just encourages people to do a Leroy Jenkins. I've stopped healing the Anakins that want to force leap and force push everything they see. I just let them die and I leave them there on the floor until they quit the group or go back to the start area and get themselves straightened out.

 

True, and the bolster really doesn't help much with those guys under level 65 since most of the time in GF they haven't upgraded their gear since Nar Shaddah and they tend to stand in stupid.

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