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Spoiler!!! Question About Kylo Ren

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Spoiler!!! Question About Kylo Ren

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
12.21.2015 , 05:15 PM | #11
^^
This is what The First Order and their boss felt like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL2gxb-TcLM

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
12.21.2015 , 06:50 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by gothshark View Post
Kylo Ren, the inept Vader wantabe. He has no redeeming characteristics, and although jarring, and a failure at being a respectable villain, I felt that was the intent of the Character, he is a spoiled brat with delusions of greatness. Although he is by far one of the strongest force users in the films so far. His mental state, and lack of self-identity make him feel like a weak person who makes us unwilling to like him. When compared to Darth Vaderís stoic approach, he is overly emotional and unsure of himself.
Vader made us love him for being himself, Ren makes us hate him, for not having a true self identity. Over all I want to see him fail hard, and thatís a good thing to have in an antagonist. Granted, in the long history of Star Wars, I feel this is the first time a Villain made me feel this way, Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, made a plan that took at least 10 years to fulfill, he set up the end of the Republic in such a way everyone besides the Jedi were happy about it. He was a master of manipulation, and a brilliant strategist. Everyone loves him, which is good for a pulp villain. Meanwhile Ren is a guy you canít like, he is almost as vile as King Joffrey from GoTs.
The 1st order, like Kylo Ren, they have a second string feel to them. Although they are defiantly a more realistic threat than Empire was. The fault in them also feels intentional, they seem to be more a Cult than an actual society. Which makes them in many ways not only more dangerous, but also less respectful. The Empire was an efficient Government, which was outlawing Slavery, and bringing Security to the Galaxy at the expense of freedom, and due process. A person could be quiet comfortable with the Empire in charge, conversely, the First Order steals children to raise them as Storm Troopers. They are willing to Murder entire star systems just to make a point. Yes, I know, Alderaan was also destroyed. However, they as a people, and their leadership had always been a thorn in the Empires Side, the first Order struck and destroyed several worlds at once, to include the current Republic Capital world, more as a statement that they should be taken serious. Since the Resistance fighting them, was less an Army of the Republic and more a Vigilantly Mercenary force receiving just enough funds to annoy the First Order.
I should also point out the Mysterious Boss of the First Order, the Supreme Leader Snoke. Ö Say that out loud, and imagine Gollum after losing a fight with a Jedi and getting badly burned. This is the new replacement for Emperor Palpatine, he is stoic yet almost a joke in name and appearance. The disconnect once again pushes our feelings in such a way as to make us innately dislike him. Where I could respect Darth Sidious, and his long term planning and foresight. Snoke who talks about watching the rise and fall of the Sith, the Empire, and he implied the Republic as well, felt as if he was tired of being ignored. I think his Starkiller was an Attempt to show the Galaxy to take him ĎCerealsí. (Yes a south park reference)
He and his Order are a real threat to the Galaxy, and make a good antagonistic faction if you want people to naturally dislike them. Unlike the Sith, whom I would join, I dislike the Knights of Ren enough that I will not ever claim to be one.

The first order reminded me almost more of a political party then a government
SWTOR is not SWG. it was never intended to be at all like SWG. and having a completly differnt design philophesy then SWG will never be like SWG

oldskoolfunk's Avatar


oldskoolfunk
12.21.2015 , 07:38 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by gothshark View Post
Kylo Ren, the inept Vader wantabe. He has no redeeming characteristics, and although jarring, and a failure at being a respectable villain, I felt that was the intent of the Character, he is a spoiled brat with delusions of greatness. Although he is by far one of the strongest force users in the films so far. His mental state, and lack of self-identity make him feel like a weak person who makes us unwilling to like him. When compared to Darth Vaderís stoic approach, he is overly emotional and unsure of himself.
Vader made us love him for being himself, Ren makes us hate him, for not having a true self identity. Over all I want to see him fail hard, and thatís a good thing to have in an antagonist. Granted, in the long history of Star Wars, I feel this is the first time a Villain made me feel this way, Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, made a plan that took at least 10 years to fulfill, he set up the end of the Republic in such a way everyone besides the Jedi were happy about it. He was a master of manipulation, and a brilliant strategist. Everyone loves him, which is good for a pulp villain. Meanwhile Ren is a guy you canít like, he is almost as vile as King Joffrey from GoTs.
The 1st order, like Kylo Ren, they have a second string feel to them. Although they are defiantly a more realistic threat than Empire was. The fault in them also feels intentional, they seem to be more a Cult than an actual society. Which makes them in many ways not only more dangerous, but also less respectful. The Empire was an efficient Government, which was outlawing Slavery, and bringing Security to the Galaxy at the expense of freedom, and due process. A person could be quiet comfortable with the Empire in charge, conversely, the First Order steals children to raise them as Storm Troopers. They are willing to Murder entire star systems just to make a point. Yes, I know, Alderaan was also destroyed. However, they as a people, and their leadership had always been a thorn in the Empires Side, the first Order struck and destroyed several worlds at once, to include the current Republic Capital world, more as a statement that they should be taken serious. Since the Resistance fighting them, was less an Army of the Republic and more a Vigilantly Mercenary force receiving just enough funds to annoy the First Order.
I should also point out the Mysterious Boss of the First Order, the Supreme Leader Snoke. Ö Say that out loud, and imagine Gollum after losing a fight with a Jedi and getting badly burned. This is the new replacement for Emperor Palpatine, he is stoic yet almost a joke in name and appearance. The disconnect once again pushes our feelings in such a way as to make us innately dislike him. Where I could respect Darth Sidious, and his long term planning and foresight. Snoke who talks about watching the rise and fall of the Sith, the Empire, and he implied the Republic as well, felt as if he was tired of being ignored. I think his Starkiller was an Attempt to show the Galaxy to take him ĎCerealsí. (Yes a south park reference)
He and his Order are a real threat to the Galaxy, and make a good antagonistic faction if you want people to naturally dislike them. Unlike the Sith, whom I would join, I dislike the Knights of Ren enough that I will not ever claim to be one.
I agree with a lot of your description of Kylo, but (and you point out) that is the point of the character. I was talking to someone yesterday that said he was an emotional Darth Vader wannabe... that is the entire point of the character!

I actually thought Adam Driver nailed the performance. The more we see Kylo Ren unravel as the film progresses gave so much more impact to Snoke's statement of "bring him to me. it is time to finish his training.". That was a moment that really shed light on so much regarding the character.

I thought Driver's interaction with Han was well done, and I liked his emotional range.

I love Darth Vader for being so cut and dry evil in the first two films. Vader never misses a beat in those movies as the bad guy and he is an iconic movie villain for being so stoic in his monster nature. Kylo Ren is exactly the opposite of this, but, to me at least, the film pulls it off well.

As someone else said in this thread, he was Anakin in Episode 2-3 done right. Hats off to Mr. Driver. I thought he was great.

ChuangTzu's Avatar


ChuangTzu
12.21.2015 , 08:50 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by oldskoolfunk View Post
I agree with a lot of your description of Kylo, but (and you point out) that is the point of the character. I was talking to someone yesterday that said he was an emotional Darth Vader wannabe... that is the entire point of the character!

I actually thought Adam Driver nailed the performance. The more we see Kylo Ren unravel as the film progresses gave so much more impact to Snoke's statement of "bring him to me. it is time to finish his training.". That was a moment that really shed light on so much regarding the character.

I thought Driver's interaction with Han was well done, and I liked his emotional range.

I love Darth Vader for being so cut and dry evil in the first two films. Vader never misses a beat in those movies as the bad guy and he is an iconic movie villain for being so stoic in his monster nature. Kylo Ren is exactly the opposite of this, but, to me at least, the film pulls it off well.

As someone else said in this thread, he was Anakin in Episode 2-3 done right. Hats off to Mr. Driver. I thought he was great.
Agreed.
"Words are for conveying ideas, but when the ideas are understood, you forget the words. How I would love to talk to someone who's forgotten all the words!" Chuang Tzu

SirenSounds's Avatar


SirenSounds
12.22.2015 , 12:35 AM | #15
Agreed @Gothshark as well


To add, I think it makes complete and total sense that Kylo goes completely off the rails when informed BB/Finn escaped. Its much, much more believable as well, because the officer informing him is just completely terrified about what the news means to him (the officer). He knows somewhere down the line that going to tell Kylo, "Hey, we umm.. messed up. The BB unit got away, and the..... the expresso machine is down". Is the short straw order of the day.

I never got that feeling from Vader. I get it, it was '77 afterall, so filming some guy go nuts wasnt quite normal back then, but he always seemed more level headed. Kylo though, he's much more believable as how a bad guy using dark Force powers would sort of come into his own.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
12.22.2015 , 03:33 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by SirenSounds View Post
Agreed @Gothshark as well


To add, I think it makes complete and total sense that Kylo goes completely off the rails when informed BB/Finn escaped. Its much, much more believable as well, because the officer informing him is just completely terrified about what the news means to him (the officer). He knows somewhere down the line that going to tell Kylo, "Hey, we umm.. messed up. The BB unit got away, and the..... the expresso machine is down". Is the short straw order of the day.

I never got that feeling from Vader. I get it, it was '77 afterall, so filming some guy go nuts wasnt quite normal back then, but he always seemed more level headed. Kylo though, he's much more believable as how a bad guy using dark Force powers would sort of come into his own.

now see, I got the exact oppisite, I got that vader was the type to have true directed rage, Kylo, with the way he hacked away at computer screens and stuff... oddly I got the impression he was doing it because he felt thats what was expected of a dark side user. a child pantomiming what he THOUGHT an adult would be like,
SWTOR is not SWG. it was never intended to be at all like SWG. and having a completly differnt design philophesy then SWG will never be like SWG