Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

One account down


Balameb's Avatar


Balameb
10.09.2019 , 09:50 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardrossan View Post
OK Trixxie, OK. But when you go, are you going to be as melodramatic about it as OP?
I think Darev has earned the right to be as "melodramatic"(*) as he wants to. I know we had a large share of rage quit people that only posted to say "goodbye" but this is not the case. Darev invested hours and hours for months of PTS testing since PTS 1.0, and has provided really good feedback on all that testing. So, its not the same.
Some people constantly attack those that provide feedback only because we are critics of how BW is doing things, saying we only want things easy. Well, if we wanted things easy, why do we invest hours, days, weeks or even months testing things?

(*)Some people might see this post as melodramatic, i see it as someone that invested a lot of time to help this game starting to give up and loosing hope. He is not the first one, won't be the last.
Get 7 days as Sub and some free stuff --> Refferal link

ZeroTypeR's Avatar


ZeroTypeR
10.09.2019 , 09:58 AM | #22
For me, it is a question of: What am I, as a sub, going to get out of subbing post 6.0? RNG Vendors?

Yes sure, a new story, the usual sub benefits, that I don't really have to have in order to play. Other than sub benefits, there no real reason for me to continue subbing after 6.0 drops. New story, high chance of me ignoring it - New Gearing, high chance of me avoiding it. So really, what other reasons do I have to sub?

In actuality, I probably could tolerate the RNG drops from all content (depending on the rate), but RNG Vendors is my limit.

Of course, I will be fair-minded and wait until 6.0 drops before making my decision, and even then I'll let my sub renew for one month, before opting out of this headache.

Edit: Disclaimer. I'm not quitting the game, just potentially un-subbing after 6.0.

JediQuaker's Avatar


JediQuaker
10.09.2019 , 10:10 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
(*)Some people might see this post as melodramatic, i see it as someone that invested a lot of time to help this game starting to give up and loosing hope. He is not the first one, won't be the last.
For me, the biggest problem is the attitude of some people. It's fine to point out what you don't like and make suggestions, but it's another whole level when you basically suggest that only "your" way is any good; and if things don't go "your" way, you're going to quit; the devs are stupid and/or want to destroy the game; etc. That definitely veers into melodrama territory.
Hold water, a sieve may not, but hold another sieve, it will - Yoda..

Referral code - http://www.swtor.com/r/dZ8wSV

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
10.09.2019 , 10:59 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroTypeR View Post
For me, it is a question of: What am I, as a sub, going to get out of subbing post 6.0? RNG Vendors? Yes sure, a new story, the usual sub benefits...
Well, to their defense some people will sub just for this alone, quality story with sub benefits.

That being said, I think it's just about expectations tbh. Some of us have high expectations and when paying we have a certain right to be demanding and yes, even melodramatic. There's no way to determine if something is "melodramatic" or not btw, it's purely subjective what one may think is being melodramatic and what is not.

Our money is going into this product, and we want the product to be as good as possible. So excuse those people who are being "melodramatic" over the 6.0 potential changes.



Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroTypeR View Post
In actuality, I probably could tolerate the RNG drops from all content (depending on the rate), but RNG Vendors is my limit.
Yeah this is going to throw a lot of people off. It seems with the amount of mods available and tacticals it seems that the amount of RNG sprinkled, err, dumped into the gearing system will make it take an exorbitant amount of time to get your gears where you want them to be, even when fully in the highest rated gears. It's going to take tons of time just to calibrate and adjust the gears properly for BiS performance if stats will matter at all in 6.0 and the RNG could potentially make this process take not just weeks, but months of attention on behalf of the player to gear one toon in BiS gears with proper stats.


Quote: Originally Posted by ZeroTypeR View Post
Of course, I will be fair-minded and wait until 6.0 drops before making my decision, and even then I'll let my sub renew for one month, before opting out of this headache.
This is my take, too. I won't proclaim I am quitting etc., I mean if anything BW has proven they are quite capable of surprising us. Usually, this is not a good thing, lol. But the way I look at it is if they are capable of making bad suprises, they surely are capable of making good surprises, too.

I think the devs are easily competent, I just question game design choices BW make regarding what they retain and what they remove/gut from the game, and what they add to the game.



"Melodramatic" and why this is irrelevant!

As for Darev and his expression of frustration, regardless if he put 100 hours into the PTS or not, his opinion whether deemed "melodramatic" or whatever other insulting word people want to use to describe it shouldn't even be the topic here.

The topic ought to be WHY he is upset and concerned about the direction 6.0 seems to be taking the game. It's a really sad affair for us on the forums to not appreciate what a poster writes only because we don't like how they present it to the forums or BW.

I just marvel at how close-minded and ignorant some players behave towards others on these forums but that's just a reflection of how society has evolved with it's communications via the internet. Attack the messenger and don't pay attention to the message.

That's being "melodramatic" imo, whining about people that supposedly are "whining," and not having the capacity to consider the message of what someone writes just because of some personal grudge against them.

Try to open your eyes and see the big picture, people. We all on the same side. Being critical of the game isn't being "mean" or "bad."


Critical feedback is important, even NEGATIVE feedback!

Without the critical response people have expressed over the years, this game would probably be in the toilet by now honestly speaking. I'd say if anything, the devs and this game ought to thank the critical thinkers and people who have been honest in their negative assessment of past changes to the game.

I'd go even further and say if they listened more to the players, the game would be in a far better place than it is now. That's the sad truth.


Why communication is important, and how failing at this creates dysfunction and resentment...

Unfortunately one of the biggest gripes I have IS the awful and non-transparent communication we have had with this gaming studio. I don't really know who to blame for that, whether it's a matter of the community management of this game is failing, or the higher ups simply ignore what is being relayed to them by the community management team.

This failure of competent and clear communication really is one of the biggest factors that sows so much resentment and frustration. Darev and others have spent their personal time on PTS, only to have some of the critical feedback acknowledged while some of it blatantly ignored.


Crafting 6.0 questions?

Questions have been leveled at Eric to explain what the point of the crafting changes are and much of the critical feedback about crafting has been just blatantly ignored as if the hundreds of pages written with detailed feedback on the topic of 6.0 crafting changes doesn't even exist.

Why? Why is this major facet of the game being changed so drastically, and why can this studio not acknowledge these detailed concerns of the players regarding the crafting changes? Is it being passed up the chain to the devs? If so what is being said on the matter of the impossibly high mat costs for crafting in 6.0?

Can this very basic question be answered, will the mat costs be dropped and if not, what niche is crafting supposedly filling then if it isn't a viable way for players to gear up or sell their wares via crafting? What's the point of crafting then?
TRUE
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
RNG is counterproductive because it massively increases player dissatisfaction.
FALSE
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
As I detailed in another thread, RNG give the players more control over their gearing.

Balameb's Avatar


Balameb
10.09.2019 , 11:13 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by JediQuaker View Post
For me, the biggest problem is the attitude of some people. It's fine to point out what you don't like and make suggestions, but it's another whole level when you basically suggest that only "your" way is any good; and if things don't go "your" way, you're going to quit; the devs are stupid and/or want to destroy the game; etc. That definitely veers into melodrama territory.
Some people express in more melodramatic ways, i give you that. But being melodramatic does not mean being wrong.
People lose patience. There are a lot feedback (hard numbers, not feelings) that shows how wrong the new crafting system is. Its not an opinion; not only the amount of mats for simple things is inase, it literally breaks the color/rarity of mats that worked fine for several years. Explanations? None.

And what is wrong about leaving if you don't like something? Should you stay and spend money in something you don't enjoy?
Get 7 days as Sub and some free stuff --> Refferal link

Darev's Avatar


Darev
10.09.2019 , 02:54 PM | #26
I posted this not to be melodramatic (thank you for that, I actually laughed when I saw that, as that's the last thing anyone in RL would ever accuse me of being on anything) but rather as a succinct post on why a subscriber who has been one since the very start of the game is cancelling 50% of my active subscriptions.

I've also seen a few people (in a different thread) comment on forum user number.
I was so excited for this game I registered on the forum the first day it was possible, long before the game actually launched. I may not have posted much, if at all way back then, but I paid attention.

As for canceling my secondary account, 6.0 as it stands on PTS isn't worth subscribing to for me personally for the changes I listed. And since my secondary account would resub before the 22nd, better to just kill it now and not have to pay the 6 months of a sub if I wind up not liking it.

My main account, I have plenty of time to figure it out.

I suspect I will know shortly after the 22nd.

I do appreciate the conversations that are taking place, and I sincerely invite you all to continue doing so.

I did, and do, have a deeper motive to making this thread, to posting it to twitter and linking @swtor / @bioware / @ea which should be fairly obvious. Whether anyone over there is paying attention, that's another matter altogether that we'll never know.

The last thing I want to see happen is this game to tank. Then the powers that be say "What happened, we thought the players loved the changes"

There's proof that many of us don't.

Even with just the many varied posts in this thread.

Please keep it up

And thank you all!
If you choose to fight in the sewer you can no longer claim to have the moral high ground.

Ardrossan's Avatar


Ardrossan
10.09.2019 , 04:32 PM | #27
Wow, you guys really went to town on that melodrama line.

By melodrama, I didn't mean it as a synonym for whining, moaning or crying. People do that frequently on here and I'd have said that if that's what I'd gotten from the post. Yes, you have a right [figuratively] to criticize BW to the point of lambasting their stupid short-sightedness ad nauseum. I do that myself.

It's just the way the OP was constructed that I felt was melodramatic. Beginning with linking the post to twitter to heighten the sense of importance the post apparently deserves, continuing on with the details of the quitting, all very standard critiques I must say [one does get the sense of having read the same sentence / paragraph before with these type of threads] and then concluding with "btw I'm so obsessed with this game I have two accounts and I'm only cancelling one, because the other is paid up for the year."

It would have more impact in January, perhaps. Or more impact if you'd actually left the game instead of sorta not really left. As it is, it rates [imo, of course] more of a "m'kay" than the "gasp! Another Hero of the Forum has left us, and flights of angels sing thee etc etc."

As to OP's defenders...One could say [and I have] that white knights don't *need* to incessantly pester 6.0 threads with the "That's just your opinion!" type comments. By the same token, however, you really don't need to assemble to mount a stalwart defense every time someone rolls their eyes at the inflated serious business taking place here, either.

the tl;dr is to google melodrama*, because I don't think you're getting it. It doesn't mean harsh, biting, TOR-Tanic critiques, and that's not what the OP was anyway. Rather, it's investing something with an artificial sense of weightiness. What is supposed to be profound instead comes off trite.

*And Lhance, if you want to make the thread not about melodrama, you should probably avoid referring to it six times in a post. Just a thought.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rion_Starkiller View Post
Companions are a crutch for the weak.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
10.09.2019 , 04:45 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Balameb View Post
I think Darev has earned the right to be as "melodramatic"(*) as he wants to. I know we had a large share of rage quit people that only posted to say "goodbye" but this is not the case. Darev invested hours and hours for months of PTS testing since PTS 1.0, and has provided really good feedback on all that testing. So, its not the same.
Some people constantly attack those that provide feedback only because we are critics of how BW is doing things, saying we only want things easy. Well, if we wanted things easy, why do we invest hours, days, weeks or even months testing things?

(*)Some people might see this post as melodramatic, i see it as someone that invested a lot of time to help this game starting to give up and loosing hope. He is not the first one, won't be the last.
Well put and exactly my point. I noticed that none of his detractors were participating with testing, but they are the first to attack him when they have zero first hand understanding of situation.

You can bet these same people will be here complaining about the changes when it goes live, but none of them tested.
Unlike some of us who actually tested and try and get changes made. I bet none of them have a clue at the extremes in the systems that Bioware originally put on the pts.
Imagine the extreme pts 1 RNG and the out of balanced pts 3 went live. Which is the sort of thing Bioware would have probably done in the past.

If it wasn’t for the testers like Darev and yourself, these people would have ended up with an even worse situation that might be coming (fingers still crossed we’ve dodged a bullet).

To these detractors, when you’ve done as much testing to try and improve the game for “everyone”, then you can earn the right to give people a hard time that make threads like these.

OlBuzzard's Avatar


OlBuzzard
10.09.2019 , 04:45 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Darev View Post
I'm linking this to twitter...just an FYI for those who want to post responses.

I checked the expiration dates of my accounts tonight.
My main account, this one, has over 100 days left.
My secondary account had 9 days left before it auto billed for a 6 month block of time.

I canceled that account.

Here's the reason why, as I filled it out in their exit survey.

The changes to some key systems in the game that are being implemented with 6.0 are too drastic for my type of playstyle.
1. Changes to crafting with 6.0 are insane - resource requirement have been increased far too much for crafting to be useful.
2. Conquest changes - the personal goal increase to 50k points, the guild level changes to 500k / 2 million / 5 million points makes it out of reach for all but the very large conquest driven guilds.
3. Far too much RNG with climbing the gearing ladder. The removal of the gear slot token system. If I wanted to gamble I'd play online poker.

PTS, as it is right now, is not fun for me and there's no way YOU will make the changes before this subscription runs out.



Now, obviously these are reasons I have and others may not share them.
Bioware can certainly change the game however they want, but when it becomes "not fun" for me anymore, I'm going to stop giving them subscription money. it's really that simple.

What's that saying? Vote with your wallet?

Well, I just did.

well...50% of me anyway. Since unsubbing my main account won't actually take effect until Jan, there's no need to do it quite yet.
I have one account … the auto re-bill information was deleted a few days ago ! I will be patient and see how this works out ! After that … I'm busy with a lot of other things in life:
1. Fishing (looking for that new "OFFICE"
2. Carving a 4ft x 10ft wood mural
3. Remolding our home !
4. 3-D models … looking for a 3-D printer (maybe)
5. More Fishing
6. Time with wife (if we decide to travel any next year)
7. In general … just enjoying retirement !!!

and NO !! Nobody gets my stuff. If you want more stuff... then get out there and earn it...
(although with RNG that might be a bit more difficult than you think !)
(████████████████████████████]:|█[ioi]█[|||████]|█|

GweedoBane's Avatar


GweedoBane
10.09.2019 , 04:58 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Well put and exactly my point. I noticed that none of his detractors were participating with testing, but they are the first to attack him when they have zero first hand understanding of situation.

You can bet these same people will be here complaining about the changes when it goes live, but none of them tested.
Unlike some of us who actually tested and try and get changes made. I bet none of them have a clue at the extremes in the systems that Bioware originally put on the pts.
Imagine the extreme pts 1 RNG and the out of balanced pts 3 went live. Which is the sort of thing Bioware would have probably done in the past.

If it wasn’t for the testers like Darev and yourself, these people would have ended up with an even worse situation that might be coming (fingers still crossed we’ve dodged a bullet).

To these detractors, when you’ve done as much testing to try and improve the game for “everyone”, then you can earn the right to give people a hard time that make threads like these.
As a day one player of this game (I played extensively the first 3-4 years) and have been an off and on player since I do thank you and the others who are in the PTS fighting for this game. God knows I certainly don't have the time or tbh inclination (being honest) but I can assure you myself and I'm sure others are watching/reading these forums with interest.