Everyone complains that you need to spend 40+ hours a week to play an MMO.

 

Not true... yes, if you want to be the best or close to the best than you do have to put forth a great deal of effort. This is especially true when playing PVP as you are going up against other live human beings.

 

But to say the game is broken because of this is non-sense. You can play this game many different ways if you don't have a ton of time during your week. You just have to lower your expectations. So many people have the notion these days that they should get rewarded for just being there or breathing. This expectation is very similar to real life where entitled college graduates come out today expecting to be able to pick and choose their job, get promoted six months later for just performing their duties and want huge raises every year.

 

The cause? NO DODGEBALL and GIVING TROPHIES FOR 10th PLACE!

 

It's an epidemic in this country and it is causing a whole generation of people to have the idea they should have everything they want and get rewarded for doing something half-*** or just being regular. People need to wake up and realize that to be the best at anything (including an MMORPG) you need to invest the time and effort to doing it... otherwise you just have to compromise and realize you won't be the best and just try to be as good as you can in the time you allot to the task.

 

That's it... if we gave everyone War Hero gear for breathing what would be the point? Go play a console game like Halo or Gears of War or Call of Duty or something.

Edited October 3, 2012 by Striders

Well I'm just going on what guild members have told me. The few times they've managed to get into a Ranked they did get rolled and were left with about 25 commendations a peice.

 

It would be easy to fill rated if it was lucrative enough, which is the problem, at present it's not!

 

well...not to be one of the L2P guys, but if you're getting rolled to the point of spawn camped and 20 comms, you don't belong in rated to begin with. it's pvp w/o the training wheels. fully organized and skilled premades.

 

I wouldn't even consider queueing w/o a full guild run or puggs from a shortlist of guilds.

Edited October 3, 2012 by foxmob

The only time I have got 20 coms in a fight was when i loaded into a normal WZ huttball and the other team scored the 6th point. If you get 20 coms in a regular wz and play the whole wz you are bad. Now I hope we are talking about ranked b/c I can imagine a team getting facerolled and getting 20. Lowest I have got personally in a ranked pug is low 40's.

 

That's my fault. I meant ranked comms not normal wz comms. I want to say that I support the view that the game in it's current state, it's better to lose a normal wz than get roflstomped in a ranked for comms. You do not get 50-60 per ranked match when you get stomped, fact.

Everyone complains that you need to spend 40+ hours a week to play an MMO.

 

Not true... yes, if you want to be the best or close to the best than you do have to put forth a great deal of effort. This is especially true when playing PVP as you are going up against other live human beings.

 

But to say the game is broken because of this is non-sense. You can play this game many different ways if you don't have a ton of time during your week. You just have to lower your expectations. So many people have the notion these days that they should get rewarded for just being there or breathing. This expectation is very similar to real life where entitled college graduates come out today expecting to be able to pick and choose their job, get promoted six months later for just performing their duties and want huge raises every year.

 

The cause? NO DODGEBALL and GIVING TROPHIES FOR 10th PLACE!

 

It's an epidemic in this country and it is causing a whole generation of people to have the idea they should have everything they want and get rewarded for doing something half-*** or just being regular. People need to wake up and realize that to be the best at anything (including an MMORPG) you need to invest the time and effort to doing it... otherwise you just have to compromise and realize you won't be the best and just try to be as good as you can in the time you allot to the task.

 

That's it... if we gave everyone War Hero gear for breathing what would be the point? Go play a console game like Halo or Gears of War or Call of Duty or something.

 

I feel bad for you, that you became this way during your life. To compare real life success to one in a game is well...silly. There are requirements for advancement in real life because the standards have real world changes. This on the other hand, is a game. A game that is meant to be enjoyable and fun...a way to get away from the competitiveness of real life. So why would anyone want to make a game another job or chore? It no longer becomes a game then.

The cause? NO DODGEBALL and GIVING TROPHIES FOR 10th PLACE!

It's an epidemic in this country and it is causing a whole generation of people to have the idea they should have everything they want and get rewarded for doing something half-*** or just being regular.

 

In RL I agree with this statement, but I desagree with it in terms of THIS game. In a healthy growing game I maybe making long gear grinds are good for subs because it gives people a reason to continue. On a game dying a slow death I'm thinking that this grind may not be a good idea. I don't know for sure...just sayin.

oops doubled up Edited October 3, 2012 by JustxJerry

I feel bad for you, that you became this way during your life. To compare real life success to one in a game is well...silly. There are requirements for advancement in real life because the standards have real world changes. This on the other hand, is a game. A game that is meant to be enjoyable and fun...a way to get away from the competitiveness of real life. So why would anyone want to make a game another job or chore? It no longer becomes a game then.

 

A lot of players don't get this...and they never will. Some players compensate and invest their self-worth into a video game. (Yes, I said video game.) They then feel upset and resentful when they perceive someone not "working" as hard as they did--as if playing a video game is about work and not having fun!

 

It's really quite pathetic.

It's actually the same on both sides of the coin.

 

The players that like being rewarded for investing the time in doing well and gearing up a toon in a video game will quit and move on to something else if they perceive everyone else in the game is being handed the same items "for free" or by doing less work.

 

The players that want everyone on an equal playing field so they can drop in for a few hours a week will quit and move on to something else if they can't be on the equal playing field and feel as though they are being forced into spending more time in-game than they would like.

 

So the reality of this is that Bio-ware can't win... you are always going to have two classes of people in that regard. If the goal is to have everyone on a level playing field regardless of their time in-game than they should just spit out a console game with no gear grind and allow players to just choose a spec and everyone gets the same gear (with some appearance options?).

Edited October 3, 2012 by Striders

It's actually the same on both sides of the coin.

 

The players that like being rewarded for investing the time in doing well and gearing up a toon in a video game will quit and move on to something else if they perceive everyone else in the game is being handed the same items "for free" or by doing less work.

 

The players that want everyone on an equal playing field so they can drop in for a few hours a week will quit and move on to something else if they can't be on the equal playing field and feel as though they are being forced into spending more time in-game than they would like.

 

So the reality of this is that Bio-ware can't win... you are always going to have two classes of people in that regard. If the goal is to have everyone on a level playing field regardless of their time in-game than they should just spit out a console game with no gear grind and allow players to just choose a spec and everyone gets the same gear (with some appearance options?).

 

Except the players that wanted everyone to be on an equal playing field have already quit, most of them long ago, which is why we're in this mess in the first place. So in reality Bioware has already taken a big gamble and lost, pretty damn hard. And nobody is saying they want a level playing field regardless of their time in-game, we are saying that the grind for WH gear is too much for the average player and the loss of subscriptions goes a long way in proving that.

 

And I hardly think lessening the grind and encouraging people to partake in Ranked Warzones will put off the first self-entitled group of people. They'll probably QQ for a bit then stop when they realise they have no choice but to live with it. But then they are clearly the vast minority in this situation as again if they weren't, we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.

That's not the point. The problem is not many people are queueing for ranked as the ranked queue is broken. People would rather go for normals as the incentive is inadequate as well as systematic barriers inherent in the current ranked system. There is a reason why you only see the same 4-5 teams in ranked matches with 90% of the time having the same composition of people. That is broken. With the current system in place, that is too few of a people queuing for ranked. It doesn't matter if the pop is constant if its with the same teams all the time. For a thriving ranked pvp to work, there must be a lot more competition than that.

 

Yes, it is the point, because the truth directly contradicts what was said.

Ranked warzones were a failure. Warzones are done to death in this game. If anything they need more open pvp.

Ranked warzones were a failure. Warzones are done to death in this game. If anything they need more open pvp.

 

ilum reopens in January. You will have to wait till then. Also guess what I have some great news for you read this quote from lead pvp designer Gabe Amatangelo had to say:

 

"I talked about before launch how I wanted a 20% gap [between a “new” level 50 and a top-geared player], and we did not hit that for a number of development reasons; I could get into the boring details, but the goal and the intent is still a 20% gap."

 

"One way we’re going to handle that in the future will be a level 50 bolster. We’re going to introduce a recruit gear, mark II in the next patch, but a level 50 bolster will also bring things closer to that 20% gap"

 

He also talks about how they are not taking the grind out for gear since thats what most players want. They want to be rewarded for what they do. What in life do you get in a day? I don't understand why people want things now now now. Maybe lots of people never went to college. But we all know if you fast track with "online" school you are no where as smart because of the real life situations school can put you in because of REAL HUMAN interaction. Please remember this is a GAME NOT YOUR LIFE!

 

Thanks

Everyone complains that you need to spend 40+ hours a week to play an MMO.

 

Not true... yes, if you want to be the best or close to the best than you do have to put forth a great deal of effort. This is especially true when playing PVP as you are going up against other live human beings.

 

But to say the game is broken because of this is non-sense. You can play this game many different ways if you don't have a ton of time during your week. You just have to lower your expectations. So many people have the notion these days that they should get rewarded for just being there or breathing. This expectation is very similar to real life where entitled college graduates come out today expecting to be able to pick and choose their job, get promoted six months later for just performing their duties and want huge raises every year.

 

The cause? NO DODGEBALL and GIVING TROPHIES FOR 10th PLACE!

 

It's an epidemic in this country and it is causing a whole generation of people to have the idea they should have everything they want and get rewarded for doing something half-*** or just being regular. People need to wake up and realize that to be the best at anything (including an MMORPG) you need to invest the time and effort to doing it... otherwise you just have to compromise and realize you won't be the best and just try to be as good as you can in the time you allot to the task.

 

That's it... if we gave everyone War Hero gear for breathing what would be the point? Go play a console game like Halo or Gears of War or Call of Duty or something.

 

This guy is spot on. I know there is a lot of complaints about ranked versus unranked, but if you dragged an ungeared toon and expected to be competitive in open world pvp, the exact same thing would happen. The only way to overcome that is numbers, which warzones prevent from happening. Everyone wants their cake without paying for it. PvP is like anything else. You don't expect to jump straight into nightmare mode raids when you ding lvl 50. That is exactly what joining a ranked warzone when you have recruit gear. You don't complain that the NPCs are too difficult, you just re spawn and move on with your life.

 

I also understand the casual gamer's plight of wanting to do pvp, but you aren't going to be good because of many reasons:

A) You don't pvp a lot, so you don't understand how your character works in pvp

B) Other people enjoy competitiveness and have the time to be the best, so they are going to have the edge no matter what you are given. They are going to find ways and tactics to be superior. Gear just amplifies this effect.

C) People thrive for competitiveness. You don't leave the real world and enter the virtual one to be a lame ***** rodent. You leave the real world to enter a world where you are a freaking jedi with the force or some other hero and you compete against NPCs all the time. It is just that the NPCs don't evolve.

D) Don't complain when other people destroy you. That isn't going to increase your performance and it is going to cause more harm than good. When everyone is screaming about getting melted, but they pvp for 1 hour every month, they are not a reliable sample of the current pvp situation. If you can, read up on your character, if you don't have time for this maybe try to find some open world pvp or duel with your friends or enjoy the fantastic story and environment that BW made. They made the story enjoyable for a reason.

 

There are probably a lot of errors in my grammar, but I am not really worried about that. The issue with the game isn't warzones. Some positive fixes would be earning commendations for open world kills or holding a certain point that would allow you to get some new gear. This would allow the casual gamer to join up with many other hardcore gamers and enjoy some pvp because open world pvp is more of a numbers and coordination game. Also, schematics for crafting that could be sold would slowly move it to more of a player's economy.

A lot of players don't get this...and they never will. Some players compensate and invest their self-worth into a video game. (Yes, I said video game.) They then feel upset and resentful when they perceive someone not "working" as hard as they did--as if playing a video game is about work and not having fun!

 

It's really quite pathetic.

 

I myself never understood the real world vs video game comparisons. All games are supposed to be challenging and other wise they would not be enjoyable imo. Maybe this grind is a bit over the top but I rather it be long (took me about two months of "work" to get full WH min maxed) but I rather it be long than say a week which is what some people want. If it was crazy easy to get gear I don't think I would be playing.

 

I would also like to say that I thought getting champion/BM was way more of a pain than getting WH.

Agree with OP, this is one the biggest deterrents for me as well.

 

I think they need to cap all ranked gear at 1500 rated comms. Elite weapon at 2k.

 

That may actually open up ranked to more people, it may allow us to play more than one spec on our mains since we could gear for two gear sets... or even allow us to enjoy alts. All good things.

 

Wish this made sense to BW.

I am valor 90 sorcerer god. I never play ranked because I get squashed by Marauders. So I just make little piddly premades and pwn normal wzs. Make enough comms (not like I need any) and you also get credits from the warzones which is (relatively, considering how this game is *** and I ultimately don't care) important.

 

So, yeah. I guess my post was just to brag, than to offer any insight.

 

But yeah I'm sure I'm not alone as a l33t WH geared twinked out OG running normal WZs instead of dicking around trying to get ranked pops so my pug can get squashed by FOTM guildies.

This guy is spot on. I know there is a lot of complaints about ranked versus unranked, but if you dragged an ungeared toon and expected to be competitive in open world pvp, the exact same thing would happen. The only way to overcome that is numbers, which warzones prevent from happening. Everyone wants their cake without paying for it. PvP is like anything else. You don't expect to jump straight into nightmare mode raids when you ding lvl 50. That is exactly what joining a ranked warzone when you have recruit gear. You don't complain that the NPCs are too difficult, you just re spawn and move on with your life.

 

I also understand the casual gamer's plight of wanting to do pvp, but you aren't going to be good because of many reasons:

A) You don't pvp a lot, so you don't understand how your character works in pvp

B) Other people enjoy competitiveness and have the time to be the best, so they are going to have the edge no matter what you are given. They are going to find ways and tactics to be superior. Gear just amplifies this effect.

C) People thrive for competitiveness. You don't leave the real world and enter the virtual one to be a lame ***** rodent. You leave the real world to enter a world where you are a freaking jedi with the force or some other hero and you compete against NPCs all the time. It is just that the NPCs don't evolve.

D) Don't complain when other people destroy you. That isn't going to increase your performance and it is going to cause more harm than good. When everyone is screaming about getting melted, but they pvp for 1 hour every month, they are not a reliable sample of the current pvp situation. If you can, read up on your character, if you don't have time for this maybe try to find some open world pvp or duel with your friends or enjoy the fantastic story and environment that BW made. They made the story enjoyable for a reason.

 

There are probably a lot of errors in my grammar, but I am not really worried about that. The issue with the game isn't warzones. Some positive fixes would be earning commendations for open world kills or holding a certain point that would allow you to get some new gear. This would allow the casual gamer to join up with many other hardcore gamers and enjoy some pvp because open world pvp is more of a numbers and coordination game. Also, schematics for crafting that could be sold would slowly move it to more of a player's economy.

 

Any more unfounded accusations and assumptions you would like to make?

 

A) The game isn't hard, a competent casual player will know his character far better than an incompetent hardcore player. You don't need to be "hardcore" to be good at the game.

 

B) This applies to both casual and hardcore players. Again, see above.

 

C) What the...? What does the second half of that paragraph even mean and how is it relevant to this discussion?! Making WH gear more accessible would actually make the game MORE competitive, as there would be a much more level playing field. That's a good thing as you're not wrong, we people thrive for competitiveness.

 

D) Again you are making blind assumptions that people are just bad... It has NOTHING to do with the gear gap between players right? /sarcasm

 

Right now a terrible WH player can destroy a good lesser geared player, there is nothing you can do on the whole until you gear up. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing as there should always be a goal to work towards, in this case better gear. The issue, is that the lesser geared players are left feeling helpless for far too long. It can easily take months to get one character geared up to the point at which they can finally be truly competitive. ONE character. This is an MMO, people don't want to just spend all their time getting steam-rolled in PvP for a couple of months waiting for the point at which they can finally be competitive and enjoy themselves. They didn't wait...as a matter of fact the vast majority of them left long ago. That's working out really well for the game isn't it?

 

You seem to be under the impression that making the gear grind more forgiving and actually giving EVERYBODY a chance at being competitive in a reasonable amount of time would be a bad thing... How exactly will it affect you apart from shrivelling your epeen slightly? You do realise that the way in which you are trying to advocate keeping the best gear only for those with the time to grind, just makes you sound like a terrible player hiding behind their gear right...? Because it totally does.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Sweeet

It boggles my mind how in a game that promotes playing alts so much the PvP grind is so long and annoying.

 

Proposed solutions:

- change purchasing pieces of gear to purchasing "slot unlocks". eg. you pay x rated comms to unlock gloves of any type from current tier.

- make valor account-wide

- make pvp mods available from crafting and purchasable with comms.

- lower the comms prices

Edited October 4, 2012 by vandana_

I had an interesting experience recently, and I think it is worth mentioning. I just finished leveling a Juggernaut to 50, and I got the Mark II gear. None of this is to brag, by the way, just to explain what I mean with specific examples. I was genuinely surprised when I was surviving longer than I remember on my Sentinel when he reached 50 and had to wear Recruit. I am Rage specced, so not tank spec, and I still survive longer than I expected. Also, I was third in damage in one Warzone, and not with a bunch of undergeared people either (or at least better geared than me). Granted, Rage is kinda the flavor of the month when it comes to Juggernauts, but still. I say all of this to make the point that the Mark II gear is much better, and it wasn't as horrible an experience as I had expected.