This will tell you if the bottleneck is GPU (green) or CPU (red).

So THAT's what the colours are for! Thanks

The 64 bit client has nothing to do with how smooth WoW performs.

 

WoWs engine was built to perform more like a First Person Shooter engine then what most MMOs use.

 

Swtor is actually a lot smoother then many MMOs manage, but it needs further optimization.

Release of 1.3 is a good opportunity to go back to the performance issues. The improvements made in 1.3 are still not enough. Not by a long shot.

 

The most critical game's features have been implemented in 1.2 and 1.3. I'm sure BW will have more time to focus on new content and hopefully the space project. But the work on performance is something that should always have the most talented team dedicated to it.

 

Mists of Pandaria expansion is coming and it's release date should be the point when Bioware programmers look in the mirror and say: we have done everything we could so our game is as good as theirs and the only thing they have done better is the amount of content they have released so far simply because they have had so many more years to do it.

 

There is a great thing in this game that World of Warcraft will never have: Star Wars IP. Make your game worth of it in every area, especially in the technical department. You need to show us excellence and ability to match WoW's technical achievements. There is no better way to prove to us that you are capable of running this MMO. I hope it's not too late. I hope you won't go free to play and give up on this game. 1.3 was a good sign, servers mergers were a brave move. Take it to the next level please.

 

I'm not a programmer and I know little about game engines. But if you can bring back Ilum and match WoW's Witergrasp/Tol Barad FPS this is where you pass the test.

Edited July 3, 2012 by vandana_

It does need a rewrite.

 

To all the people saying 'It runs on my machine, the problem is on yours'.

 

Not it is not, while it run quite fine on high end machines, this game is extremely inefficient with resources management.

 

In laymen's terms, it is basically a V8 that drinks a lot of fuel but makes only 250hp, while that Lancer with a 4-cyl twin turbo makes 300hp drinking 1/4 of the fuel.

In laymen's terms, it is basically a V8 that drinks a lot of fuel but makes only 250hp, while that Lancer with a 4-cyl twin turbo makes 300hp drinking 1/4 of the fuel.

So... it's a vegetable beverage that restores 250 hit points?

I've been doing a lot of crazy testing since my last post.

 

Fact - I've got a high end system (check my previous post for system specs: Post 249)

 

Now, folks who are saying that it's running smooth on low end machines - I'm calling your bluffs. Please start posting screenshots with frames on fleet. Use FRAPS or the game's FPS counter.

 

Like I said in my previous post flux from 20fps - 110fps (but never higher than 110fps). Lows frame rates are in populated areas.

 

BW is great company, been playing their games since lord knows when... the Hero Engine IS NOT optimized.

 

EDIT: Okay, I've removed my client_settings.ini and returned to default settings, and I've also reset the NVC options to default (with the exception of FXAA:ON) and I'm seeing must better performace on worlds with lots of grass/trees - however, I always turn that stuff down to 50%. I am still getting fluxuations, and haven't had a chance to check out FPS when there are 250+ on Fleet.

 

The evidence is there though, optimization is needed for the Hero Engine.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Gawlron
more info to add

So... it's a vegetable beverage that restores 250 hit points?

 

You made me lol

I didnt read all the posts, but i saw something about his rig isnt high end etc etc. He plays on Tomb Of Freedon Nadd where we have 3-4 instances 300 ppl in each on rep fleet maybe more on imp fleet. There is the problem, yesterday we had 30+ sec delay on chat messages in warzones. It is whatever hardware and software that BW is using that isnt up to date. Bad coding i guess, I think i saw a HERO Engine blogg post about that HERO cant help due to the all the rewriting Bioware did with their engine.

Im sorry but you cant just assume its his hardware. If his computer can run games at a good standard (I know he didnt say) then we have to assume its the game.

 

 

Actually, yes they can. If everyone else is running fine and you are not, its not the game. In short, the platoon is not out of step. ;p

youtube.com/watch?v=U74hW4_YwWc

He is probably running an AMD VC Get an Nvidia!

 

Oh bull! I have a Radeon 6850 and get 60 fps ( Vsync is on ) on Fleet and in runs. Plus I can not even hear the fan running and my computer stays cool.

 

To the OP, I donot think reasons for slow downs is related to Dx 9 or Dx11. But rather the programming. I still think Rift looks far better than TOR and I can jack it's settings up and get smooth, consistent game play.

Another thing that folks should be looking at when they are getting lag in populated areas is their storage devices - HDDs and SSDs. Remember that in these populate areas, SWTOR.EXE needs to pull all the info from your storage to draw all those sprites... I've noticed that this is a bottle neck on my machine - even though I am running SWTOR from 2 OCZ Agiliti 3s in RAID0 off my SATAIII (6GB) controller. Since when you're walking around fleet, it doesn't load the whole thing into memory (although with 24GB of RAM ... I wish they'd let us specify how much is cached).

 

Just food for thought.

 

Also, I have been playing around with improving the read ahead cache on my system to see if that will improve perferomance and maybe help some folks out.

http://en.kioskea.net/faq/578-how-to-increase-the-cache-on-your-hard-disk

http://www.ghacks.net/2010/07/08/increase-the-filesystem-memory-cache-size-in-windows-7/

http://www.analogx.com/contents/download/System/cb/Freeware.htm

 

PS: DO NOT BLAME ME IF YOU USE THE ABOVE INFO AND YOU SCREW UP YOUR SYSTEM.

I like how a legit thread turned in an epeen flexing contest. I don't care how many FPS you get in fleet. You can't argue that this game's graphics engines isn't absolutely terrible. The coding in this game is horrible as well. That's obvious to just about anyone. The graphics system needs a major overhaul, especially if they ever want a prayer of being able to make Ilum come back to life for large scale PvP. Single threaded engine = fail in 2012. We all have multi-core processors and GPUs, but we can't even make use of them for this game. There are memory leaks all over the place. Bioware either needs to L2Code or pull out of the MMO industry permanently.

I like how a legit thread turned in an epeen flexing contest. I don't care how many FPS you get in fleet. You can't argue that this game's graphics engines isn't absolutely terrible. The coding in this game is horrible as well. That's obvious to just about anyone. The graphics system needs a major overhaul, especially if they ever want a prayer of being able to make Ilum come back to life for large scale PvP. Single threaded engine = fail in 2012. We all have multi-core processors and GPUs, but we can't even make use of them for this game. There are memory leaks all over the place. Bioware either needs to L2Code or pull out of the MMO industry permanently.

 

True and on the mark.

wait wait, what? DX9? ***? i've got DX11 why the **** would i want a DX9 game?

To the OP, I donot think reasons for slow downs is related to Dx 9 or Dx11. But rather the programming. I still think Rift looks far better than TOR and I can jack it's settings up and get smooth, consistent game play.

 

Smooth and consistent eh? I take it you haven't played for a bit? At least not after the 1.9 "Conquest" debacle that's currently going on

Smooth and consistent eh? I take it you haven't played for a bit? At least not after the 1.9 "Conquest" debacle that's currently going on

 

Sence 5 days in early access. TOR that is. Never had any fps issues at all. Then I donot PVP, so cannot say from that point of view. But running FP and being on fleet...no problems. Maxed out settings too except for Bloom, Do not like how the game looks with it on. For Rift, no..not been playing long, not did any large raids, the Rifts tho with say 20+ players there, the game play is smooth.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Valkirus

I like how a legit thread turned in an epeen flexing contest. I don't care how many FPS you get in fleet. You can't argue that this game's graphics engines isn't absolutely terrible. The coding in this game is horrible as well. That's obvious to just about anyone. The graphics system needs a major overhaul, especially if they ever want a prayer of being able to make Ilum come back to life for large scale PvP. Single threaded engine = fail in 2012. We all have multi-core processors and GPUs, but we can't even make use of them for this game. There are memory leaks all over the place. Bioware either needs to L2Code or pull out of the MMO industry permanently.

 

It's not horrible, at least not compared to just about any other MMO.

 

In fact it actually performs better, overall, then most. Especially in terms of fluid combat.

 

Whatever you think of WoW, it cannot be denied that the engine blizzard created is beautifully coded. WoWs engine is not standard, it's exceptional. It does not represent MMO engines in general.

 

Compared to WoW... TORs needs work.

 

Compared to EVERYTHING ELSE, TOR is way up near the top of the list.

It's not horrible, at least not compared to just about any other MMO.

 

In fact it actually performs better, overall, then most. Especially in terms of fluid combat.

 

Whatever you think of WoW, it cannot be denied that the engine blizzard created is beautifully coded. WoWs engine is not standard, it's exceptional. It does not represent MMO engines in general.

 

Compared to WoW... TORs needs work.

 

Compared to EVERYTHING ELSE, TOR is way up near the top of the list.

 

Average isn't good enough by today's standards. If you want to succeed in the MMO market, and not just tread water, you have to be amazing. TOR is far from that. Wow DOES represent MMOs in general because it is top dog. You don't compete by aiming to be king of the garbage heap. Go for broke or go home. Most of want this game to succeed, but they are doing so much wrong. "Compared to everything else..." doesn't cut it anymore. You can either compete with the best of them, or you can't. Right now, TOR can't.

Average isn't good enough by today's standards. If you want to succeed in the MMO market, and not just tread water, you have to be amazing. TOR is far from that. Wow DOES represent MMOs in general because it is top dog. You don't compete by aiming to be king of the garbage heap. Go for broke or go home. Most of want this game to succeed, but they are doing so much wrong. "Compared to everything else..." doesn't cut it anymore. You can either compete with the best of them, or you can't. Right now, TOR can't.

 

Incorrect.

 

WoW is not simply an MMO. It is an institution. It is simply not possible to compete with that directly.

Incorrect.

 

WoW is not simply an MMO. It is an institution. It is simply not possible to compete with that directly.

 

That's the kind of attitude Bioware has right now, and it's why they're failing. You can't compete if you don't even try.

Qustetion for you,

 

I know my system is not high-end and I don't expect uber peformence but i have 2 monitors one which I have core temp running & GPU monitor and my GPU load flat bottems out to 0% when lots of players are close proximity compared to hitting 99% when on board my ship alone, this ofc directly effects my fps.

 

I'm not alone is this problem either some guild friends with completey different systems above and below my system spec are also seeing this.

 

Is this an exmaple of the so call bad engine or can some one explain it ?

 

Intel Q6600 2.4 quad (2.7 OC)

XFX HD6850

4GB

win7 32bit

Edited July 4, 2012 by nkitch

It's not horrible, at least not compared to just about any other MMO.

 

In fact it actually performs better, overall, then most. Especially in terms of fluid combat.

 

Whatever you think of WoW, it cannot be denied that the engine blizzard created is beautifully coded. WoWs engine is not standard, it's exceptional. It does not represent MMO engines in general.

 

Compared to WoW... TORs needs work.

 

Compared to EVERYTHING ELSE, TOR is way up near the top of the list.

 

I bet WoW was so great a few years back... how old is WoW now? The game was released on November 23, 2004, on the 10th anniversary of the Warcraft franchise. So that would make it 8 going on 9 years old... that a hell of a head start concidering that TOR was just released back in January. Are we really comparing apples to apples here? Also: Development of the game [WoW] started in 1999 and took roughly 4–5 years, including extensive testing. So roughly the same amount of development time that went into TOR... WoW is a mature game with programmers who created its engine.

 

I think comparing WoW to TOR is just an uneven comparison... like comparing an 80 year old woman to a 18 year old woman ...

Edited July 4, 2012 by Gawlron
spelling error

To the OP, I donot think reasons for slow downs is related to Dx 9 or Dx11. But rather the programming. I still think Rift looks far better than TOR and I can jack it's settings up and get smooth, consistent game play.

 

Probably. The point is most people who play this game don't really care how it is built. They just look at the end product and are intelligent enough to know that the problem is not their machines. DX9, DX11, 64-bit, use of 1 core or multiple cores. It would all be meaningless if we had smooth performance at 60+ fps like in competition's products. WoW may have outdated graphics and SWTOR may look better but the difference is nowhere near justifying SWTOR performance. Besides, look at Rift.

 

So when the performance goes drastically down in a 16 man raid, 8 man warzone or fleet, when a whole game concept is removed because the game can't handle it, when technical flaws start to become obvious people will speculate why this is happening. Why there can be flawless fps in Alterac Valley with 40 people all showing off and casting their spells before the battle? Or in a massive rift with 20+ players and particle effects all around? Why are there no loading screens when you fly over massive and beautifully detailed Notrhrend?

 

I deliberately compared WoW client going 64-bit to SWTOR being DirectX 9 based in the title to point out that Blizzard who theoretically could leave WoW's game engine as it is and go with minor improvements still decides to strive for technical excellence while Bioware settles for an outdated engine and mediocre solutions because of either lack of ambition or knowledge or both. Blizzard never gives up on major improvements. Bioware removes Ilum. That is the difference between the two companies. And in addition to releasing their products at the right time this is what made Blizzard the company it is today. And believe it or not SWTOR came at the right time as well. 2 million boxes sold to players tired of dragons and pointed ears as well as Star Wars fans and SWG refugees was a huge potential.

 

As someone stated above - you can't compete in MMO market without even trying. Go rewrite this engine or do whatever the hell is necessary.

 

As additional read on the subject I recommend a thread in suggestion box that is much more technical "Your technology needs help, lots and lots of help" which I'm sure the devs have seen.

Edited July 4, 2012 by vandana_