Dear Bret,

 

In this post, I would like to list some of the reasons I personally do not like the current pop rate 12v12 matches, as well as offer a list of co-signees who agree with at least some of these points to a degree that we would like to see the 12v12/8v8 match ratio reduced.

 

The situation

Over the last few weeks, I have played exactly 36 matches, all on Darth Malgus, mostly during prime-time, but also some across the day. So far, of these matches two were 8v8s. This is clearly a much higher rate than before the MatchMaker patch. Of course, there is a certain amount of habituation to 8v8s, as that was simply the way GSF worked before, and over the week I have found my opinion on 12v12s moving from tedious to challenging, but still I think that 12v12s all the time are not optimal.

 

Difficulty

12v12s are significantly harder than 8v8s. Because there are more players, drones and other objects to keep track of, it can sometimes even be overwhelming. Particularly less experienced players have difficulty keeping up, looking at Domination death-numbers in particular. Also for more experienced players the need of being aware of about one-and-a-half times as many items and the LoS to those items is more difficult. A higher difficulty can be fun and challenging, but the current pop rate for 12v12s raises the skill requirement of the whole game, and I don't think that's a desirable thing.

 

META differences

In 12v12s playing a Bomber pays off significantly more than playing one in an 8v8. In 8v8s Bombers, in my opinion, could use some improvements, but in 12v12s the reverse is almost true. In 12v12s, it pays much more to nest up, creating static gameplay. This is not always the case, as when engaging in dogfights with a Scout or Strike Fighter heavy composition the matches feel more dynamic than 8v8s, but in Dominations in particular nests of four Bombers or even more make any assault come to a grinding halt, and it starts feeling futile to even try to attack such a node.

 

Playing Solo

Of the 36 matches I played in the last two weeks, I played about two-thirds with Nightmaregale. Those matches were significantly more fun than the ones I played alone. Not just because of his excellent company, but also because with the two of us, we were making a difference in the game, whereas some of the matches I played alone seemed utterly futile attempts to change the score in my team's favour. Especially in Dominations, coordination was often key to breaking a nest of two to three Bombers apart. In 8v8s, coordination is less needed because there are fewer enemies to begin with.

 

Performance Issues

Most players in this game do not run on the latest and greatest hardware. This can lead to much lower framerates in 12v12 games than 8v8 games, particularly when the FPS is CPU-limited. Players on Linux using Wine (such as myself) also experience this problem. In an 8v8, my laptop reaches a solid 60FPS, but in 12v12 this may drop to 20FPS or lower in <Battle over Iokath>. The difference is pretty dramatic, and while 20FPS is still somewhat playable, for most people who have FPS issues in 12v12s, the game becomes barely playable.

 

Conclusion

12v12 matches definitely bring some variety into GSF by allowing for very dynamic and active matches when the composition is Scout or Strike Fighter heavy and their higher difficulty can be interesting and challenging for the more experienced players. However, there are also downsides to 12v12 matches that simply do not make them the ideal match to pop all the time. In the bigger map of Denon Exosphere 12v12s can make the game seem more alive, but in the other maps it soon starts to feel crowded. On top of that, Galactic StarFighter is simply not balanced around 12v12s: It's balanced around 8v8s.

 

Therefore, I, along with my co-signees, plead for a lower 12v12 pop rate. Perhaps not as low as it was before as there are certainly good sides to 12v12s and some people really enjoy them, but having 12v12s all the time has negative effects. We may not all agree on the specific reasons or the precise desirable 12v12-8v8 ratio, but we all agree that the current one is undesirable.

 

Hoping that you will consider our concerns,

 

Have a great day,

RedFantom

 

Aelmaron

Baudran

Damzy

Heizen

Kelly

Rohan

Sathiwaari

Stewart-Baxter

Teira

Whistlingbird

Yellowbird

Yo-Wan

Yui Motomi

Edited August 16, 2018 by sselgninaeM

I've posted this in other threads, however I'll put it here. 12v12 should be tougher, I've solo queu'd with 1,000's of matches under my belt over the last few weeks on bran new alt, yes it can be painful. With that being said, I believe it is IMPORTANT for GSF to remain as it currently is and promote 12v12's over 8v8's. Does it change how we've played the game as a whole, yep. But to be honest. 12's also make it harder for for a premade of 4 to dominate like they do in 8's. This is the who point of leaving it as is. FORCE those 4 man premades to DEPEND on the other team mates, instead of just doing the easy carry they do now.

 

I also feel GSF is balanced just fine around both. It has nothing to do with 8's or 12's at all.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Toraak

Is your entire point that you hate 4 mans?

 

Also there's like a dozen signatories, whose dominating issues vary by player. Should they all come in and address your "screw 4 man" point? Were you willing to address any of theirs?

Edited August 17, 2018 by Verain

I do agree with Red, I would also want to add, that 12 v12, fun as it is, negates not only impact one player can have on a game but also puts most matches into 'who can farm fresh pilots faster, and even if it is a valid tactic, and was used frequently by a lot of people, I could for sure say, that it makes first/fresh experience with GSF, even less likable then it was prior to the changes that were made.

 

Etrii

Is your entire point that you hate 4 mans?

 

Also there's like a dozen signatories, whose dominating issues vary by player. Should they all come in and address your "screw 4 man" point? Were you willing to address any of theirs?

 

I do not hate 4 mans, I used to fly in them all the time, however they aren't good for the game as such if all they do is stomp the enemy team like they always do. Making them depend on 8 other players makes GSF the team game it is supposed to be, not the lets take 4 of us, ignore whatever the other half of our team does because they are irrelevant to the match. We'll win regardless.

 

To Etri's comment: shouldn't the impact of 1 player in a match be reduced? Unless i've forgotten something GSF is a team game, so while 1 person can carry a team to victory if they are skilled enough, Should that really be happening on a consistent basis? Personally 1 person should have a diminished impact in a team game compared to what is happening these days. 1-2 players pre patch were carrying a full team to victory. It should be less of that and more of a full team effort.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Toraak

In a perfect world, you would be right, but with 12 v 12 ATM the outcome is not determined by the better team, it is mostly determined by the number of newbies on one of the teams, and yes, I agree, that pre-patch, one man carries where not the best system, one man impact is diminished a bit too much. Actually, if 4 man groups are in disadvantage, 1 man cant pull meaningful impact, and mind, that I don't mean the situation when one player can change the outcome of win/lose. But making a match somewhat more equal

I also never liked 12v12 and wish for a greater proportion of 8v8. In addition to what the other posters have said, here are some more reasons.

 

12v12 Deathmatches are over too quickly

The average 8v8 Deathmatch is about 10 minutes, while the average 12v12 Deathmatch is about 7 minutes. Given how much time we spend on the loading screens, ready screen and waiting in queue, the 12v12 matches are just too short.

 

Life expectancy too short in 12v12

Even with balanced teams, a "life" can be very short, especially in Deathmatch, especially 12v12.

 

Satellites never change hands

Even with balanced teams, some Domination matches are just completely static. This can happen in 8v8 too, but it happens more often in 12v12. The match is decided in the initial rush and it would end very close to 1000:500 or 1000:0. The losing team is just not able to turn a satellite. There are just too many defenders, and the respawn timer is the same as 8v8 so there is a steady stream of replacement defenders.

 

Targetting UI limitations

The targetting interface in GSF is rather basic compared to, say, the X-Wing series. Cycling between 8 enemies may be tolerable, but cycling between 12 enemies gets tedious. If someone is trying to lock a torpedo on you without firing lasers, it's not easy to target him. GSF is also wonky when you're shooting at overlapping targets. 12v12 increases the chances of that.

12v12 deathmatches should probably have a higher kill limit so they aren't over quite as fast.

 

If the weight in a 12v12 match is dead enough, one player can still have quite an impact on it.

 

Matches in general should have a mechanic where a team can vote to say "This is hopeless, we resign, we don't want to sit through this."

Is your entire point that you hate 4 mans?

 

Anything that screws the way you guys play the game is just F-I-N-E by me.

Anything that screws the way you guys play the game is just F-I-N-E by me.

 

Ok super, I'll disregard pretty much any of your points I guess. Given that your motivation is to mess with me, and you'll take any position if you think it disrupts group play. Maybe this also explains your demand to delete tensor in the other thread- I guess since anything that screws with a ship that I play in 70%+ of domination matches is fine by you for that reason, and that's why you want to delete an ability that helps teamwork.

 

Not very helpful!

Ok super, I'll disregard pretty much any of your points I guess. Given that your motivation is to mess with me, and you'll take any position if you think it disrupts group play. Maybe this also explains your demand to delete tensor in the other thread- I guess since anything that screws with a ship that I play in 70%+ of domination matches is fine by you for that reason, and that's why you want to delete an ability that helps teamwork.

 

Not very helpful!

 

I demanded nothing. I suggested.

 

And yeah, I respect literally nothing about you or the way you and your little group pervert the game.

Can we put the group vs. solo discussion into a separate thread please (new or necro any large number of old ones)?

 

This one is about (8 vs. 8) vs. (12 vs. 12) and not about group vs. solo. While it is true that 4/12 < 4/8, just changing GSF from 8 vs. 8 to 12 vs. 12 is an incomplete answer at best, if the question was to stop groups winning.

 

I'll add that, in 12 vs. 12, the chance of being chain-interdicted / slowed / sliced / drained increases to an intolerable level