It just seems to me that the tier-1 telekinetic talents that increase your force by 100 are just too good to pass up for any sage spec. This is unfortunate for players who like to really experiment with specs and try hybrid stuff. Play around with a talent calculator for a bit and you'll understand what I mean. In short, those 2 talent points seem so good, that going 30 into seer and then 10 into balance for force in balance is somewhat crippling. As are any spec that does not at least include 2 points into telekinetics.

Am I overestimating the importance of the +100 force talents or should this be looked at in the future for class balance?

They're pretty much cookie cutter, I agree.

Hmm, Healer with Force in Balance, would be interesting in PVP I guess.

Am I overestimating the importance of the +100 force talents or should this be looked at in the future for class balance?

No you're not. If someone doesn't put two points into these talents they're simply speccing wrong. Should it be looked at for balance? Not really, it's been talked about for months in beta, so the fact that it remains as a tier 1 talent choice means the developers want it to be available for everyone (just like the expanded energy pool options for Smugglers/Agents).

I don't believe is as huge as peeps make out to be. 100 extra force means 2-3 more casts based on most abilities force cost. You still regen at same rate of 8 force / second. I don't deny for some specs it might be helpful, but personally as a balance sage, I don't have any force problems, even when am soloing 2 hero+. I can take on 3 elite mobs without a problem, CCing one, pet on 2nd, and me bursting 3rd down while keeping shield and offhealing on pet. And I am not dipping under 30-40% force when both elites are dead. I can't really say I would notice a big difference having 100 more force points. I am not spamming abilities on CD (except TK), so I never get into lower end of force. Since I got the 1% force regen from TK through talents, I never had to sacrifice hp for force again even in flashpoint bosses, and am not only healing, but also tossing shields and offhealing if needed.

What you should be happy tho, is that it is a 1st tier talent, so all specs can access it, imagine if was 2nd or 3rd tier :-)

I don't believe is as huge as peeps make out to be. 100 extra force means 2-3 more casts based on most abilities force cost. You still regen at same rate of 8 force / second. I don't deny for some specs it might be helpful, but personally as a balance sage, I don't have any force problems, even when am soloing 2 hero+. I can take on 3 elite mobs without a problem, CCing one, pet on 2nd, and me bursting 3rd down while keeping shield and offhealing on pet. And I am not dipping under 30-40% force when both elites are dead. I can't really say I would notice a big difference having 100 more force points. I am not spamming abilities on CD (except TK), so I never get into lower end of force. Since I got the 1% force regen from TK through talents, I never had to sacrifice hp for force again even in flashpoint bosses, and am not only healing, but also tossing shields and offhealing if needed.

 

What you should be happy tho, is that it is a 1st tier talent, so all specs can access it, imagine if was 2nd or 3rd tier :-)

Actually its a lot more. Now your regen starts at say 565 force left instead of 465 giving you longer duration. Your noble sacrifice also now refunds 48 force per use instead of 40. And again that's that much longer you can go WITHOUT having to revert to a subpar conservation/regeneration mode of dps. The energy equivalent talent for Snipers/Gunslingers admittedly isn't that important, but for a Sage/Sorc 100 force is.

Frankly I'm also not buying the last part here either. You're either talking about your experience in the esseles or you're flat out lying. No non-healer specced sage can heal/bubble spam for prolonged periods past about 30, and certainly not without abusing noble sacrifice, it's simply too inefficient.

You have enough talents to completely fill up a tree plus put 10 points in another tree. Two points in a tree to give you +100 force is not going to completely kill your creativity or not allow you to experiment. Heck, on my sage I'm taking the +100 force, 9% less force cost on my attacks and heals, and +20% force armor talents in the telekinesis tree.

It's not going to gimp me or make me feel like I'm restricted, because I still have a whole other tree to play with.

You have enough talents to completely fill up a tree plus put 10 points in another tree. Two points in a tree to give you +100 force is not going to completely kill your creativity or not allow you to experiment. Heck, on my sage I'm taking the +100 force, 9% less force cost on my attacks and heals, and +20% force armor talents in the telekinesis tree.

 

It's not going to gimp me or make me feel like I'm restricted, because I still have a whole other tree to play with.

It means a healer will never have Pinning Resolve or Focused Insight.

It means a healer will never have Pinning Resolve or Focused Insight.

Pinning resolve is an utter waste of talent points. It only effects weak and standards, so no silver mobs or gold mobs. The only good part about it is the reduction in stun time.

Actually its a lot more. Now your regen starts at say 565 force left instead of 465 giving you longer duration. Your noble sacrifice also now refunds 48 force per use instead of 40. And again that's that much longer you can go WITHOUT having to revert to a subpar conservation/regeneration mode of dps. The energy equivalent talent for Snipers/Gunslingers admittedly isn't that important, but for a Sage/Sorc 100 force is.

 

Frankly I'm also not buying the last part here either. You're either talking about your experience in the esseles or you're flat out lying. No non-healer specced sage can heal/bubble spam for prolonged periods past about 30, and certainly not without abusing noble sacrifice, it's simply too inefficient.

I never had to use noble sacrifice as balance. I don't spam bubble, nor spam heals. I can throw a shield on tank or healer and toss 2-3 heals to help recover from spike dmg, but am not doing that as main job... so you misunderstood.

Am not using project on CD in my dps cycle. Nor am using force in balance for single target dps either. I consider both those abilities belong to burst phases and not sustained dps cycle for a balance sage. So yes, if we have to push a boss in next phase, I will burst, but won't try to sustain the burst cycle for whole duration of fight :>

I did Mandalorian Raiders and the lvl 28 one with missile silos (last boss you fight under missile who fire up randomly, and you need to keep moving). Only time where I ever had force problems was in lvl 16-18 doing athiss last boss, since no healer gets cleanse that early, and the dot does a lot of dmg, and you have to top off the one getting doted because they might get the dot next round as well.

Once again, am not 100% sold on 100 extra force as a balance sage. Not saying is not good, is one of the better talents of the 2 secondary trees, but I do not see it as game breaking at this point.

The cost reduction is way more important for PvE then the extra force.

You will quickly save more then 100 force from cost reduction in a fight.

Anyway there are not enough interesting talents reachable in other trees for a 31 spec sage to divert from cookie cutter build (7 telek / 2(3) Balance).

I never had to use noble sacrifice as balance. I don't spam bubble, nor spam heals. I can throw a shield on tank or healer and toss 2-3 heals to help recover from spike dmg, but am not doing that as main job... so you misunderstood.

Am not using project on CD in my dps cycle. Nor am using force in balance for single target dps either. I consider both those abilities belong to burst phases and not sustained dps cycle for a balance sage. So yes, if we have to push a boss in next phase, I will burst, but won't try to sustain the burst cycle for whole duration of fight :>

 

I did Mandalorian Raiders and the lvl 28 one with missile silos (last boss you fight under missile who fire up randomly, and you need to keep moving). Only time where I ever had force problems was in lvl 16-18 doing athiss last boss, since no healer gets cleanse that early, and the dot does a lot of dmg, and you have to top off the one getting doted because they might get the dot next round as well.

 

Once again, am not 100% sold on 100 extra force as a balance sage. Not saying is not good, is one of the better talents of the 2 secondary trees, but I do not see it as game breaking at this point.

wow.. the dps you loose by not full cycling is depressing. your bility to sustain your force pool is a product of the fact you don't full cycle

I never had to use noble sacrifice as balance. I don't spam bubble, nor spam heals. I can throw a shield on tank or healer and toss 2-3 heals to help recover from spike dmg, but am not doing that as main job... so you misunderstood.

Am not using project on CD in my dps cycle. Nor am using force in balance for single target dps either. I consider both those abilities belong to burst phases and not sustained dps cycle for a balance sage. So yes, if we have to push a boss in next phase, I will burst, but won't try to sustain the burst cycle for whole duration of fight :>

 

I did Mandalorian Raiders and the lvl 28 one with missile silos (last boss you fight under missile who fire up randomly, and you need to keep moving). Only time where I ever had force problems was in lvl 16-18 doing athiss last boss, since no healer gets cleanse that early, and the dot does a lot of dmg, and you have to top off the one getting doted because they might get the dot next round as well.

 

Once again, am not 100% sold on 100 extra force as a balance sage. Not saying is not good, is one of the better talents of the 2 secondary trees, but I do not see it as game breaking at this point.

Perhaps I did misunderstand, but you made it pretty clear that you were claiming to both be "healing" and "offhealing" indicating that at some point you have healed in a stressful, prolonged situation where you would have to spam. You also go on to note in your response that you did in fact have issues even at a low level in Athiss, and guess what? It just gets harder trying to heal from there.

Ultimately you don't have to be sold on the talent for it still to be worth taking. With balance being geared towards PvP you can very easily find yourself running out of force after staying alive and in combat awhile. And there, a sub-optimal dmg rotation like you listed simply won't fly. Frankly, the fact that you even listed a sub-optimal rotation as an addendum to prove your own points instead has the reverse effect, when you don't care about pushing your character even close to it's potential limits then of course NO talent is required.

wow.. the dps you loose by not full cycling is depressing. your bility to sustain your force pool is a product of the fact you don't full cycle

Am sorry care to elaborate on this full dps cycle? Am really curious to see it ^_^ :-)

Am sorry care to elaborate on this full dps cycle? Am really curious to see it ^_^ :-)

He's talking about how you mentioned not using Project or FiB on cooldown in your rotation.