Renifizzle Posted December 27, 2011 Share Posted December 27, 2011 Please look at the numbers now Bioware. I am not jumping up and down saying "PUT IT BACK". I am saying, however, that now it loses money. Why should I pay 1400 credits on a C6 lockbox search for a box that returns 1000 credits? Why should I pay 1900 credits for a high reward C5 lockbox that returns 1400 credits? Remember your design goals BW, slicing is a mission skill for non-crafters. It is a way for them to utilize the crew skills to make money or get gear without entering the crafting world. This skill is no longer profitable as a mission skill. Please consider adjusting it so the profit margin is smaller, not a complete loss now. Please give BW some constructive forum posts on this topic, thank you. EDIT 12/28/11 9AM MST I apologize, I have not been able to keep on top of this properly for the scope of this thread. Also, the numbers I got were a result of previously unaccepted mission rewards vs the new item system. It appears that there is now a higher chance of uncommon T6 boxes doing the Moderate/Abundant missions so the profit margin isn't quite as atrocious (read: loss) as it initially seemed. SPREADSHEET LINK SirFlashington has done me the favor of compiling a live editable google spreadsheet that you can enter your results in. I forsee this getting wildly out of control if not edited responsibly, so if you have constructive feedback that you would like to give to the community and BW, please enter good information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yvin Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Greetings folks! The previous version of this thread has exceeded our post threshold and we have recreated it for continued discussion. As a gentle reminder to everyone, please remember the following: Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively.Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them.Ignoring - If you feel you simply cannot get along with another community member, please place them on your ignore list. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansophist Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Fantastic. A new thread. And yet still no feedback. Awesome communication, guys. At least let us know you are looking into the issue instead of knee-jerking to the people who feel slighted by the patch. Let us know that you will run the numbers, think about the problem, then develop a solution. Or let us know that you just don't care. Edited December 29, 2011 by Pansophist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightnvy Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 knee jerk reactions... NEVER make for a good MMO publisher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decadosleepless Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 This is great post, explaining in more professional way what Im, in my amateur knowledge of economics, expecting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonicks Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Fishing in wow still gave you fishes (what it was/is intended for) w/ cooking was of great value to keep or sell (not sure on Cata >). Still wanting to know if Slicing is really meant for just augments and the lockboxes are supposed to be just insignificant bonus creds. If so, then how in-demand augments can ever get since it's reliant on crafting crits. Hmn. 1651 posts and you'd think somebody from BW would care to calm things down. hah! Edited December 29, 2011 by supersonicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletZero Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) I'm not saying its current implementation is perfect, but Slicing mission skills should NOT be profitable because of how mission skills work. It would essentially turn into a money generator. Put in money, get more later. No cost of any sort. Given how there is not even a time cost associated with slicing(unless you count the ten seconds it costs to order your companions away), it was a completely broken infinite motion. My suggestions are as follows: 1. Make node gathering much better. 2. Make missions more "risk/reward" instead of a consistent profitability. 3. OR just repurpose slicing to something else all together. Edited December 29, 2011 by VioletZero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi_Ron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The OP in this post presents a good argument why slicing had to be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hajizan Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 augment missions? lol pay 1780 credits and get some random green lv 47 item, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volki Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 (edited) Thanks for providing more room for this discussion. Much appreciated. Slicing should be "unNerfed". It will make the game more fun (casual players and others will buy more from the auctions, and it will stop gold farmers). The current nerf goes way too far and makes it a useless profession. Edited December 29, 2011 by Volki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightnvy Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Fishing in wow still gave you fishes (what it was intended for) w/ cooking was of great value to keep or sell (not sure on Cata >). Still wanting to know if Slicing is really meant for just augments and the lockboxes were suppose to be just insignificant bonus creds. 1651 posts and you'd think somebody from BW would care to calm things down. hah! What no.... they are just stuck in a meeting and one guy in the corner is going... I TOLD YOU SO! and the rep from LA is going WE NEED TO CAVE TO ALL QQing! WE DONT WANT SWG AGAIN... and everyone else is crying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansophist Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm not saying its current implementation is perfect, but Slicing mission skills should NOT be profitable because of how mission skills work. It would essentially turn into a money generator. Put in money, get more later. No cost of any sort. Given how there is not even a time cost associated with slicing(unless you count the ten seconds it costs to order your companions away), it was a completely broken infinite motion. My suggestions are as follows: 1. Make node gathering much better. 2. Make missions more "risk/reward" instead of a consistent profitability. 3. OR just repurpose slicing to something else all together. What do you call the other gathering professions? We've been down this road before, and everyone still comes back to 'printing money zomg'. Other gathering professions do the same thing. You can argue that they yield items that you can utilize, but I vendor them. What am I doing? I'm generating/printing money. Good argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightnvy Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 What do you call the other gathering professions? We've been down this road before, and everyone still comes back to 'printing money zomg'. Other gathering professions do the same thing. You can argue that they yield items that you can utilize, but I vendor them. What am I doing? I'm generating/printing money. Good argument. +1 letters.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demorgoth Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The problem non-slicers are failing to recognise, is that the slicing money was driving the economy. It was an easy way of generating cash without the 'hassle' of crafting. They then used that cash to buy from other players who could be bothered. Now there's no easy cash for the lazy, they'll just make crafting alts and run missions for the most profitable sellables, or craft the most in-demand items. There will be more competition between sellers, fewers buyers, and eventually the market will readjust downwards until all the pre-nerf slicing cash is redistributed. The only net change overall will be the fixed price items like training, vendor items and storage space being considerably more expensive in real terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volki Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I'm not saying its current implementation is perfect, but Slicing mission skills should NOT be profitable because of how mission skills work. It would essentially turn into a money generator. Put in money, get more later. No cost of any sort. Given how there is not even a time cost associated with slicing(unless you count the ten seconds it costs to order your companions away), it was a completely broken infinite motion. My suggestions are as follows: 1. Make node gathering much better. 2. Make missions more "risk/reward" instead of a consistent profitability. 3. OR just repurpose slicing to something else all together. Or just return slicing to what it was and 99.99% of players will be happy (hopefully you too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syas Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 What do you call the other gathering professions? We've been down this road before, and everyone still comes back to 'printing money zomg'. Other gathering professions do the same thing. You can argue that they yield items that you can utilize, but I vendor them. What am I doing? I'm generating/printing money. Good argument. Here is the issue though, you are not selling them for more than you pay to get them. You also have to make (minimal) effort to sell them, whereas with Slicing you could run 8 characters login/3 clicks/logout/repeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi_Ron Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Thanks for providing more room for this discussion. Much appreciated. Slicing should be "unNerfed". It will make the game more fun (casuasl players and others will buy more from the auctions, and it will stop gold farmers). The current nerf goes way too far and makes it a useless profession.The way it was before, slicing would have been a wonderful tool for gold farmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pryt Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 augment missions? lol pay 1780 credits and a mission time of 1h 12m 00s to get some random green lv 47 item, no thanks. Fixed it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightnvy Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The way it was before, slicing would have been a wonderful tool for gold farmers. The way slicing was there would be no need for gold farmers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VioletZero Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 What do you call the other gathering professions? We've been down this road before, and everyone still comes back to 'printing money zomg'. Other gathering professions do the same thing. You can argue that they yield items that you can utilize, but I vendor them. What am I doing? I'm generating/printing money. Good argument. Does vendoring items you get from missions yield more than what you paid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syas Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The way slicing was there would be no need for gold farmers... Incorrect, because it would cause a great overvaluing of goods it would lead to one of two inevitabilites: Everyone needs to be a slicer (which would eventually lead to the second anyway) or people needed to buy credits to afford anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pansophist Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Here is the issue though, you are not selling them for more than you pay to get them. You also have to make (minimal) effort to sell them, whereas with Slicing you could run 8 characters login/3 clicks/logout/repeat Which is why I suggested level caps as an alternative (in addition to a slight nerf from what it was). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakkana Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 Everyone keeps dancing around the main issues with flames and whatnot. But here it is all layed out: 1) The slicing nerf was NEEDED. No one really disputes this. 2) The nerf was too much 3) The nerf was done, from all appearances, based on forum noise 4) They focused on this instead of addressing issues like UI problems, Guild/Party Chat breaking, memory leaks and a whole other host of problems that would be more of a concern than slicing itself. 5) The nerf is being judged at a time where the player base and server economies are new. Did I miss any others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volki Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The way it was before, slicing would have been a wonderful tool for gold farmers. I strongly disagree. Why would I need to buy credits from gold farmers if I have enough to fix my items, buy gear/skills, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 The OP in this post presents a good argument why slicing had to be nerfed. i read his post and he makes alot of good points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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