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Why Pre-made raid groups and fully equip ships, actually harm GSF and PvP matches.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Galactic Starfighter
Why Pre-made raid groups and fully equip ships, actually harm GSF and PvP matches.

ShallowHal's Avatar


ShallowHal
09.26.2015 , 02:50 PM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by RickDagles View Post
I am 100% not sorry for stacking teams because Drakolich can (and HAS) done so almost since the game launched. I personally would be flattered by the attempts if someone did this to me. I would relish the challenge, regroup, and come back even stronger (which he has done). It's about time Drak lost some games, and I'm glad to be part of a team that could accomplish it. These last few weeks have been some of the most fun games I've ever had, win or lose. I'm really glad that most of the good players have moved to Harbinger. And I think games like these are going to continue for months to come.
Well stated. In fact, I suspect we were in the same group last night because some of this dovetails with what we discussed in the group.

Verain's Avatar


Verain
09.26.2015 , 03:44 PM | #122
I don't think anyone is sad that great pilots are queuing. But it is a bit different- queuing multiple groups when one known guy is flying will shut that guy down until he brings a bunch of peeps to make the fights fair. That's different than just queuing with friends at some arbitrary time. Both are totally fine though!

Importantly, while there's enough GSFers to get pops pretty much any time (especially on Harb- it got a bunch of people switching for ground game reasons, on top of it always being populous, on top of having a solid GSF core to begin with, meaning it's the go-to place for GSF now), there aren't enough of the solid pilots needed to make good GSF games 24/7. So clearly syncing playtimes has to happen to some degree anyway.
"The most despicable person on the GSF forum."

MaximilianPower's Avatar


MaximilianPower
09.26.2015 , 04:24 PM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by ShallowHal View Post
Well stated. In fact, I suspect we were in the same group last night because some of this dovetails with what we discussed in the group.
Indeed, Hal, you were. RickDagles = Siraka...most of the games you were in with me, Siraka was there too.

So, OK, there may be a little vitriol flying around here, but stepping back a bit: doesn't this entire situation actually reflect well on the state of GSF? This kind of tension just means we care. We still care! We've been completely neglected by the devs nearly since launch, desperately trying to keep our little minigame afloat...and somehow, incredibly, the matches seem to be better, and the banter livelier, than ever. I've been playing GSF since beta, and I'm not sure I've seen games as consistently entertaining as those I've participated in over the past few weeks.

Devs - are you reading this?* Imagine the kind of GSF community growth you'd see if we actually got a handful of QoL improvements/bug fixes/new...well, anything.

* I mean, no, of course they aren't, but you guys get the point

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ShallowHal's Avatar


ShallowHal
09.27.2015 , 11:41 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by MaximilianPower View Post
Indeed, Hal, you were. RickDagles = Siraka...most of the games you were in with me, Siraka was there too.

So, OK, there may be a little vitriol flying around here, but stepping back a bit: doesn't this entire situation actually reflect well on the state of GSF? This kind of tension just means we care. We still care! We've been completely neglected by the devs nearly since launch, desperately trying to keep our little minigame afloat...and somehow, incredibly, the matches seem to be better, and the banter livelier, than ever. I've been playing GSF since beta, and I'm not sure I've seen games as consistently entertaining as those I've participated in over the past few weeks.

Devs - are you reading this?* Imagine the kind of GSF community growth you'd see if we actually got a handful of QoL improvements/bug fixes/new...well, anything.

* I mean, no, of course they aren't, but you guys get the point
Yes. The caring is why I'm currently more interested in this aspect of the game than any other. In wargames and world PVP, guys loved to grief the little guy. Inherently within the design of the game, you will be a little guy for a long time until you built up enough ship req. So it's a law of the jungle thing and you have to accept that as part of the deal. Still, I maintain there are more nice people playing this game than any of the other subsegments of the game (ops, raids, warzones, etc.) And so I want this to be a welcoming community for the new person who needs help getting from point A to point B before he gets frustrated and quits.

I've already gone through my rough period and am still going through it leveling up new alts, so I understand that's just part off the way it is. But people who are trying it out for the first time wont'.

And on that note, I think I've officially way over-contributed to this thread. It's up to other people to decide the best way to make people want to stick through the tough times.

Gorgothus's Avatar


Gorgothus
09.28.2015 , 06:47 PM | #125
I know you guys are a tight nit group so I can only add my wisdom from being a gamer since before the gaming PC was invented and hope you all don't get offended.

There's really no sense attacking any single player for the outcomes of the matches because they are using the tools set forth by the devs who make the product.

There's no rules against x number of players getting into groups, using some sort of VoiP and coordinating their game against the opponent. A lot of FPS, Sims and MMO's do the same when it comes to PvP content. So all in all, Draco is not doing anything out of the ordinary for this game as ive seen in games over the last few decades.

Here's where your gonna hate me...

What the devs could of done, or in my opinion should of done. They should of put everybody on the same playing field..period. Other than some minor choices say like loading out with Protons this round and maybe next flight Ill load up Thermite...maybe I"ll take concussions on my bomber instead of Ions, this round I'll fly strike and maybe i'll fly scout if there's a lot of gunships"

As soon as Bioware decided to really change the playing field by putting Power-ups, Crew-choices, ordnance layouts that have different levels trees they already separated the hard-core from the new player. They separated others simply because the majority of players still don't visit forums, they go on their best educated guess as to what weapon/crew/layout to pick.

They separated the players because simply put, no matter what or how YOU feel about the game or how YOU feel another player should try harder, a gamers experience is still subjective. So no matter what you say, L2P or the game is fine, stick through it and level up some ships..it really seriously doesn't matter to everybody else. If their experience is they get swamped consistently on any server before they can reach that sweet spot (more on this) they might not stick around and I think we can all agree, we want more players, faster ques and diversity.

So what's this sweet point? Well in a lot of games were they add in all the extra nonsense, power ups, levels , and other choices, it's when you've finally committed to memory where all the power ups spawn and their times, what ship or fighter or weapon layout has the best dps when out fitted a certain way and you've finally mastered all your components.

At this point, you are on par with the "ACEs" in all respect except for the other variables which can be out of your ability or control... Do you have all the power ups memorized, are you on VoiP and coordinating your attacks, do you have crappy connection and bogged down PC..other things that can take you far from that sweet spot.

Remember the days of having a sweet PC and crappy internet 28.8 dial up? Now against other like/similar players you faired pretty well, ,perhaps even pulling the top of the charts on a regular basis until that guy. Until that is "that" guy showed up with his T1 line. All of a sudden the playing field has been tipped. Damn low ping bastard would frag you and all your teammates and all you see was the wisps of his shadow as he moved onto other targets because to him, you were literally standing still.

Well that's what happens in GSF, you get a ship and then you have to take time to level that ship and it's components, perhaps you spent points on bad choice and now you need to rework your choice, or perhaps you just want to see if those other choices suit your style better. All this while, those low ping bastards flying around in their mastered ships see "target scout, target bomber etc" I hope you can agree because a mastered ship is miles more powerful than a stock ship, not including the other factors.

Here's my question though, what if your first ship , was just as good as the 6 ships that the other guy purchased right out of the box, so at this point, other than the given variables like "scouts are generally fasters ships, Bombers have more armor" it all came down to your skill and the inevitable question of your PC/internet connection.

What if there was no power ups that allowed ships to practically melt anybody or turn the tide in favor for those who like to memory map them and or control their spawning locations. Could you still handle this?

Even with VoiP, what if premades didn't have any more advantage over a group of 8 players lacking any sort of communication other than the pilot behind the wheel. Personally I think matches could go a different way. Hell, you'd see a lot more strike ships flying and getting kills I'm betting.

They could of changed the current reward of making monster ships as given rewards to long term players other ways ;
1. Ship skins to distinguish veteran players
2. The same system of using rec to purchase more ships
3. paint jobs, engine colors, beams could of taken off the cartel market (since I hear they don't sell anyway) and rewarded to veteran pilots
4. Crew members Co pilots for just flavor after all , who wants to hear Mako whine all the time even if she is the best choice for X ship
5. Plus more if you put your mind to it.

Wouldn't you all rather play a game where it boiled down to your ability vs who the guy who got the power up with the gun that's been leveled up to shoot 20 targets, clips through walls and cooks cheeseburger and hits so hard it deletes the targets account?

So to end my rant what started out coherently and as usual fell apart after the first paragraph, it's really not anybody's fault that any given player in GSF can do what they do, it's the game given to us.

Either you like it or don't. Your mileage may vary. Is it the best space fighter game? probably not, is it just another game, yup. You can try to make changes by request or suggestion but you cant just come and say hey "x players are better because they used what they have better" that just doesn't make sense and its not really helpful.

I'd like to see changes in GSF to keep it going, might not happen I don't know. However I don't blame any single player or set of players for using the game to their advantage or lack there of. If it gets old, I have two choices ...move on ...or keep reaching for that sweet spot.

warriorthis's Avatar


warriorthis
09.28.2015 , 09:31 PM | #126
i dont have a problem with pre-mades even though it gets SUPER annoying at night. My issue is trying to get new players to come and play. Some servers has players in the GSF Chats that actually trash talk and talk down to the new players both in the chat and in the matches general chat which forces them not to learn the roles of the ships or how to play in GSF. The reason why the community of GSF chat is small as it is cause we dont seem to get new players interested due to trolls and elite fliers.
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Sinapus's Avatar


Sinapus
09.29.2015 , 12:00 AM | #127
Quote: Originally Posted by ShallowHal View Post
The biggest problem is that in a faction vs. faction match (which happens more than half the time on Harbinger) four man groups are paired with other four man groups. If that gives a full 12 man team, the other team has no chance. It's like the Golden State Warriors playing against your local beer league players in basketball.
Good, someone else noticed.

In some games I've played it was more like a pro team vs a group of schoolkids. No, it wasn't fun to be among the "schoolkids"... mostly because the "pros" parked their ships on a spawn point in a deathmatch and kept blowing people away. That's not a "learning experience" for players as some people claim. No "don't spawn there" doesn't count. Sometimes the screen doesn't show any enemy ships before you launch. Maybe I'm a "carebear" (yawn) but I find myself not feeling very happy on the rare occasions when I'm on the "pro" side of that sort of match.

OTOH, in deathmatches where jerk moves like that weren't pulled by the "pros", I did figure out a few tricks... and those were fun matches, even if they ended with a loss. (Though winning a match against skilled opponents is also fun. *grin*)

The "let them have a sat" thing can work on outclassed teams, if the other side actually takes that sat you're leaving alone. (That was a... depressing match even if we won.) Otherwise, maybe the "pro" team should just let the counter get to 1000 and see if the next match has a challenge. Maybe one of those see-saw affairs that are great to fight in.

Yeah, as someone else said elsewhere in the thread it is not "imperative" for better players to ease off when they find themselves facing a team of very inexperienced/unskilled players. Alas, that poster doesn't realize it is also not "imperative" for lesser skilled players to keep getting "squished" instead of finding something less sadomasochistic to do. (Hm... pug KDY maybe?)

It's wise to remember that.
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Lendul's Avatar


Lendul
09.29.2015 , 10:54 AM | #128
Just remember you are getting their "best" and should feel honored that they are not condescending toward you by taking it easy. Trust them they know what's best. It worked great on the servers they came from which is why they left. The queues were so full and healthy they thought they should help the poor folks on The Harbinger out. Soon that it too shall see their proven wisdom.

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
09.29.2015 , 12:19 PM | #129
Quote: Originally Posted by Lendul View Post
Just remember you are getting their "best" and should feel honored that they are not condescending toward you by taking it easy. Trust them they know what's best. It worked great on the servers they came from which is why they left. The queues were so full and healthy they thought they should help the poor folks on The Harbinger out. Soon that it too shall see their proven wisdom.
This is the second time in a couple of days that you've posted something to this effect. You seemed like an all right person when I played with you for Super Serious a few months back, so I'm surprised at your tone. Drakolich hasn't done anything to deserve it, as far as I know, unless you mistake being good at the game for hostility.

But regardless, you're wrong about why Bastion's queues are slow. See, this is actually a pretty simple thing. Back in June, Bioware heavily discounted character transfers. Since then, all PVP servers have had a severe population problem. Factor in the pre-expansion lull, and PVP servers are pretty dead.

Bastion, for example, hasn't climbed above "light" population (the lowest indicator Bioware has) in the past sixty days. Harbinger doesn't have that problem.

Lower population means fewer people playing any part of the game, including GSF. Fewer people playing means that there are fewer people in the queue. I realize that this might be a bit of a difficult concept to grasp, since you've struggled with it for months now, but bear with me here. We're almost done.

Fewer people in the queue means that getting a match can take a lot longer. Crazy how that works!

tl;dr: Character transfers and the pre-expansion lull are why PVP servers don't have as much GSF as Harbinger, and suggesting anything else is just silly.

ALaggyGrunt's Avatar


ALaggyGrunt
09.29.2015 , 12:52 PM | #130
I think the death of PvP servers has more to do with the ground game. Everyone wants their player-kill planetary achievements, so they're going farming, which makes leveling a new character a lot more of a chore, which in turn means fewer 60s for ranked. The philosophy of "If it's a fair fight, you're doing it wrong" is really bad for newbie retention in the ground game.

Heh, with the super-cheap transfers, I was even thinking of putting a mastered lvl 60 toon on the Bastion for one of the Super Serious nights.