I just don't get it. Coming as someone for which this content is "new" (IE, I played at launch and never experienced Starfighter Combat until 2 weeks ago), it's an infinitely more approachable, more personal skill-based form of endgame content than is PvP (you can debate this back and forth all day, but I think PvP in SWTOR is very much team-reliant, as opposed to skill-derived), and it's damned easy to get into. I mean, complete that first 'introduction to starfighter' mission and you basically have enough fleet experience to kit out a whole ship (or do enough to render it respectable, at least).

I understand that 'twitchy' gameplay like this isn't for everyone, but I really feel like, for what SF is (an arena-style space mode), it's a darned slick experience that should be vastly more popular. I really *feel* like I'm in Star Wars, in an actual dogfight when I'm zipping around in my Sting - it hasn't for even a moment gotten old, and I don't feel nearly as frustrated when losing as I do with regular PvP. Just seems strange that so few people agree with that sentiment, it would appear...

I don't like space combat games. I didn't get into this MMO for space combat.

I feel like it's a niche that doesn't really apply to a huge portion of this game's playerbase.

I'm pretty much a GSF addict

I've talked to buckets of people about GSF and why they don't like it and don't play it, and the most common thing I hear is that the learning curve is super steep and discourages people from taking the time to learn and master ships (and hence be a bit more competitive.) Bioware made great strides on this with their last round of GSF tweaks, but I think a lotta players are still stung on this point.

A bunch of us on the GSF forum have said an easy way to overcome this would be to just give players the ability for free flight on all of the maps, with all of the ships. Let them practice flying, toggling power buttons, and spitting missiles at things. In an ideal world there would be a PvE mode as part of this, but for now just the empty maps I think would be super good.

From the perspective of a GSF vet, I'd say only having two game modes, and four maps, makes it kinda boring after awhile. Don't get me wrong - I still love flying - but if there was more diversity I think players would stick with it for longer. You can def get a feeling of, "same ol' same ol' if you've been flying long enough.

I don't like space combat games. I didn't get into this MMO for space combat.

 

I feel like it's a niche that doesn't really apply to a huge portion of this game's playerbase.

Laughs in Star Wars

Oh wait, you're serious.

 

 

 

A bunch of us on the GSF forum have said an easy way to overcome this would be to just give players the ability for free flight on all of the maps, with all of the ships. Let them practice flying, toggling power buttons, and spitting missiles at things. In an ideal world there would be a PvE mode as part of this, but for now just the empty maps I think would be super good.

 

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^^^^ That would be a great idea, if people could get used to it, learn the basics without being blown to pieces before they even fire, would definately encourage more people.

I just don't get it. Coming as someone for which this content is "new" (IE, I played at launch and never experienced Starfighter Combat until 2 weeks ago), it's an infinitely more approachable, more personal skill-based form of endgame content than is PvP (you can debate this back and forth all day, but I think PvP in SWTOR is very much team-reliant, as opposed to skill-derived), and it's damned easy to get into. I mean, complete that first 'introduction to starfighter' mission and you basically have enough fleet experience to kit out a whole ship (or do enough to render it respectable, at least).

 

I understand that 'twitchy' gameplay like this isn't for everyone, but I really feel like, for what SF is (an arena-style space mode), it's a darned slick experience that should be vastly more popular. I really *feel* like I'm in Star Wars, in an actual dogfight when I'm zipping around in my Sting - it hasn't for even a moment gotten old, and I don't feel nearly as frustrated when losing as I do with regular PvP. Just seems strange that so few people agree with that sentiment, it would appear...

The learning curve is quite hard... There aren't any proper tutorials in the game. In order to become good you have to fail hard.. and be fodder for good players.

People don't like this... and avoid it.

Before I went into PVP I learned GSF... I never regretted it. Played thousands of matches... and after you learn it, you will feel that it was worthwhile.

Flying those ships is in art.. trust me.

For me, until recently, playing GSF did nothing for your character so I didnt' play. Meaning, I didn't get upgraded gear or components for my character(s), only my ship. I'm not sure if you can level your character up; ie: going from level 10 to level 30, but I don't think so. It's like logging out of already established MMO and playing an entirely different game.

The idea behind them making GSF an Ossus weekly is the first time you actually get something for participating, a Masterwork Crystal, which are needed to upgrade your gear. Other than that there was no reason to play it, except for the fun of it. They should have enacted that a long time ago so people would get used to playing it in previous expansions. If they don't do it again, in 6.0, you can really expect to see a droppage of players participating in GSF.

I think similar results for the previous space missions on rails. Again, there you only got stuff to upgrade your ship, not your character.

I agree both are kinda fun, however, without a free space simulator that allows you to practice flying and shooting without your teammates yelling and cussing at you or vote kicking you out, there is not much reason to play it. The tutorial for GSF is broke and doesn't really help you learn either.

It's more like a mini game and less like a feature like Jump To Lightspeed update in star wars galaxies.

Pretty much this, GSF is only slightly better than the on-rails space combat no one loves so much wich means it's still bad.

For me, until recently, playing GSF did nothing for your character so I didnt' play. Meaning, I didn't get upgraded gear or components for my character(s), only my ship. I'm not sure if you can level your character up; ie: going from level 10 to level 30, but I don't think so. It's like logging out of already established MMO and playing an entirely different game.

 

The idea behind them making GSF an Ossus weekly is the first time you actually get something for participating, a Masterwork Crystal, which are needed to upgrade your gear. Other than that there was no reason to play it, except for the fun of it. They should have enacted that a long time ago so people would get used to playing it in previous expansions. If they don't do it again, in 6.0, you can really expect to see a droppage of players participating in GSF.

 

I think similar results for the previous space missions on rails. Again, there you only got stuff to upgrade your ship, not your character.

 

I agree both are kinda fun, however, without a free space simulator that allows you to practice flying and shooting without your teammates yelling and cussing at you or vote kicking you out, there is not much reason to play it. The tutorial for GSF is broke and doesn't really help you learn either.

This is one of the few things I appreciate about GSF--the GSF pilots are NOT like that, by and large. The only people that are like that are generally the same people who are like that in ground pvp and the trolls in fleet chat. Even then it's not nearly the same because unlike in ground pvp where they can go hide and not help and type out insults, in GSF they'll crash if they do the same.

A lot of pilots know they're in a niche part of the game and want more people to join and have fun. They understand it's already hard enough for people to get over the steep learning curve and severely wet-noodle starting ships that they don't need to make it worse by chasing people away with standard PvP toxicity you see elsewhere.

I've seen a lot of times where these guys will ask/suggest their own team to lay off the spawn points of the opposite team because they understand how deflating it is to be on the other side and it's really hard to get those people to want to come back.

If anything, lately the toxic people are the people farming those Masterwork crystals who are pissy because they "have" to be there and they get angry when they can't get 3 wins in 3 matches.

I don't know what server you're on, but GSF is the second most popular activity on Star Forge. The first being regular PvP.

I was looking for a PMSL emote, but there does't seem to be one, so can i just leave these here :rolleyes:

This is one of the few things I appreciate about GSF--the GSF pilots are NOT like that, by and large. The only people that are like that are generally the same people who are like that in ground pvp and the trolls in fleet chat. Even then it's not nearly the same because unlike in ground pvp where they can go hide and not help and type out insults, in GSF they'll crash if they do the same.

 

A lot of pilots know they're in a niche part of the game and want more people to join and have fun. They understand it's already hard enough for people to get over the steep learning curve and severely wet-noodle starting ships that they don't need to make it worse by chasing people away with standard PvP toxicity you see elsewhere.

 

I've seen a lot of times where these guys will ask/suggest their own team to lay off the spawn points of the opposite team because they understand how deflating it is to be on the other side and it's really hard to get those people to want to come back.

 

If anything, lately the toxic people are the people farming those Masterwork crystals who are pissy because they "have" to be there and they get angry when they can't get 3 wins in 3 matches.

I don't think I've ever seen toxicity in GSF. People just seem to take their lumps and move on. It's a very professional, very focused atmosphere.

I don't know what server you're on, but GSF is the second most popular activity on Star Forge. The first being regular PvP.

Riiiiight..... Anything to support this? If I had to bet, I'd say for Star Forge PVE and RP are the most popular.

GSF doesn't offer any single missions and there's really no decent tutorial. Remember, PVE is the starting tutorial for ground PVP and there's plenty of it.

I loved the TIE fighter games and played them like crazy. Great single player missions and great tutorials. Eventually I PVP'd in the last one, Xwing Alliance. Sadly, Bioware doesn't think these things through.

There's a number of reasons. I'll list a few that some have probably already touched on:

*Mostly PvP, a lot of people don't PvP, so you already lost that crowd, big oops

*Space on rails. We had this back in the 80's, this iteration isn't much better than those arcade games. See SWG's flight system. For a game that's over fifteen years old, SWG's free flight smokes this game

*Controls aren't favorable, but that's also a learning curve

*It does nothing to enhance your gear score, which is what most new mmo's are all about

*It also doesn't help that it wasn't around when the game first launched, which in retrospect, could be a good thing

*Hasn't been updated in quite awhile. I don't recall the last time something regarding this portion of the game was actually added

There are simply too many reasons why this part of the game isn't as popular as it could be.

The idea behind them making GSF an Ossus weekly is the first time you actually get something for participating, a Masterwork Crystal, which are needed to upgrade your gear. Other than that there was no reason to play it, except for the fun of it. They should have enacted that a long time ago so people would get used to playing it in previous expansions. If they don't do it again, in 6.0, you can really expect to see a droppage of players participating in GSF.

F-that. F-it hard. F-it in its ear, its good ear!

The absolute worst thing about gearing in this stage of the game is being forced to do content you don't want to do in order to do things you do want to do. and I'm not complaining about a grind. I'm complaining that GSF has literally nothing to do with my character, his stats, or anything. So tying a highly valuable crystal to GSF in order to gear my character is a horrible idea. maybe you enjoy all of the fresh meat roaming aimlessly around in GSF hoping to walk into a weekly, but as a traditional PvPer, I F-ing hate it. Nobody in a ranked match wants someone there who doesn't know what he's doing and isn't properly geared, but here's the thing: you can fail 50 times and get your crystal in ranked. If you go do it in PvE (the game mode the player wanted it for), he'd never get it at all because he's not good enough to down vet mode queen. ergo: he poisons the ranked scene. HTF is that a good idea?

yes. I have much anger over that ever-changing weekly. it's literally the opposite of their 6.0 motto (play your way). and it's probably the impetus for that 6.0 slogan.

I've tried on more than one occasion to get into gsf and it never caught on for me. Basically it came down to the following reasons:

1) The Ships: They're just not starwarsy enough for me. They look too generic and lack that iconic star wars appeal. They basically feel like bicycles for rent at a cheap resort.

2) Combat framing: The overall look on screen feels off to me compared to games that really nail space combat. Battlefront gets this right and even older games like Freespace, so why can't SWTOR?

3) No PVE: I was hoping for flashpoints in space with ships performing trinity roles of healer, dps, and tank. I just knew there would be trench runs of some kind, escort missions, and maybe some search and destroy objectives. Solely running it as pvp in space was a complete turnoff. Some solo missions would have been nice too. There's no way to practice before jumping into a match, its just a mess imo.

4) Companions: where do I begin? Are they back at base advising me? Are they beside me in the cockpit? Are they flying beside me? I didn't really get their involvement at all. Also really wished I could choose from my whole list of comps instead of whoever these guys are they introduce.

Essentially it just doesn't play like a traditional space shooter experience, feels confusing and perhaps hastily thrown together. As far as star wars experiences go, they dropped the ball on this one. I wanted to feel like Luke getting set up for his attack run. Instead I just want to do something else soon after I enter a match.

I will never set foot in Starfighter again. Not in any lifetime.

Learning curve is far too high, tutorial is almost worthless, and while the veterans there are generally not verbally abusive, they almost all camp spawns and prey on the newbs. At least those have been my experiences (and not terribly long ago at that). Not worth the aggravation -- not for any reward.

The learning curve is quite hard... There aren't any proper tutorials in the game. In order to become good you have to fail hard.. and be fodder for good players.

 

People don't like this... and avoid it.

 

Before I went into PVP I learned GSF... I never regretted it. Played thousands of matches... and after you learn it, you will feel that it was worthwhile.

 

Flying those ships is in art.. trust me.

I think the Devs considered that people who will play GSF will do it cause they already are familiar with this game type. As I said, its almost the same as the old X-Wing games.

I can list down the problem with GSF below:

1. Most players just queue for that master works crystal ossus weekly which needs 3 wins and they don't have a clue what to do during a match.

2. There are too many GSF pros/premade gsf guilds who are very capable on farming kills and playing very well which makes new players effectively food for them. The scorecard end of match usually shows some big numbers of gsf pros kills which shows terrible match balancing and a big gap in ship handing skills

3. The tutorial doesn't really help much for new players, it is a very steep learning curve during a match

4. Newer players don't have full unlocks on their ships/or using stock ships which makes them disadvantaged against fully upgraded ship players.

5. GSF queues are sometimes really long during non peak timings which deter players from queuing in the first place compared to warzones.

I've pondered this question off and on again for a long time. I did a fair run of GSF back when if first came out. It was kind of fun back then. I think it's not a bad game (though I'm no veteran of space combat games, so how would I know?). I left it aside for a while and when I came back, they'd introduced bombers and there was a cadre of experts who rendered my efforts laughable. I also realized there were certain aspects of it that I just didn't get (basically, I have a hard time translated the tunnel-vision, 2D screen info into a useful 3D global situation).

What people have said already is all true to some extent, but to me the problem really comes down to the fact that it's a totally different game than SWTOR. I'm no fan of regular PVP, but at least the character abilities you use all the time while leveling and grinding work the same way in PVP. So even if you don't have that 'twitch' or the right gear and utilities, you can at least move around, chase objectives, and interfere with the enemy, pretty much the same way you normally play while questing.

There is no way to get that kind of preparation and practice for GSF. No tutorials, no chance to chase mobs (easy or hard), no parallel between your toon's abilities and your ship's. No way to learn just how to fly, let alone how to actually engage moving targets or how to not get shot.

That's why GSF is 'unpopular' - it's not SWTOR, it's not the game everyone plays when they log in. If there was a PVE or practice mode where you could learn the controls, face challenges in a progressive manner, I bet there would be a lot more activity (there certainly would in my case, and I don't believe I"m the only one!). Instead, it's just a shark tank with not even a swimming lesson to prepare you.

Blessings on those who are willing to teach, I wish them the best. But I prefer to play a game instead of study it. Sure, there's always a learning curve - but I'm a lot more open to learning if my initial experience is better than being blown up repeatedly while I'm just trying not to ram every single asteroid in the system.