Well my guild decided to do some Ranked Warzones tonight. Half the team were in full BiS WH, the other half a mix BM/WH - myself being a mix of BM/WH. All of us fully augmented.

 

Now all you people out there saying that a fully augmented BM player is comparable to a fully augmented WH player, are flat out lying or have no idea what they are talking about. The team we went up against, multiple times, have all BiS WH and spammed grenades like there is no tomorrow. I have never, in my entire time spent PvP'ing, died so quickly or have been CC'd so much.

 

I had quite a few 1v1's versus these guys, and my Sentinel could not do a thing to beat any of them, even specs I know how to beat and beat all the time in normal WZ's. It was not a matter of skill, just shear damage. I have over 1300 Expertise and these guys were cutting through me like butter and there was not a thing I could do about it, even with my uber defensive cooldowns. I was being taken down with shear brute force alone.

 

The last game we played, Huttball, was just a complete joke. I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that the resolve change was the worst idea Bioware have ever had. In a competitive PvP setting it should not be possible to spend over half the game either completely incapacitated or unable to move through grenade/slow spamming. These were pro's and when they mezzed, they made sure not to break us out of it and just focused us one at a time. The trouble is, we could be mezzed/stunned/incapacitated so many times within a minute, our stun breaker was pretty much useless.

 

You people think going up against a 4-man premade of BiS WH players is bad...I think you would quit the game entirely if you played the team we played tonight. These guys were sick, both in a good and a bad way. It just highlighted how utterly broken PvP is at a competitive level - no wonder Season 1 hasn't started yet, it would be absolute carnage.

 

And it doesn't matter if you finally reach BiS yourself, the damage a competent team is capable of through clever use of grenade spamming and coordinating attacks, will bring the best geared player down in seconds. That kind of damage should not be possible in a competitive PvP environment, it is game breaking. I have close to the Expertise cap and 18500 health, so even when I do each BiS myself, I will still die just as quickly, I just may stand a chance at killing them before they kill me. Assuming I stick around that long, this DPS arms race is not fun in the slightest. One mistake, and it's dead. One cooldown unavailable, and it's dead.

 

I knew PvP was in a bad place right now, but I had no idea just how bad until going up against this team tonight. I'm appalled that PvP has been allowed to get this bad. At the very least damage needs to be toned down, I see no logical reason for it being so high when BiS with the limited health pools available, none at all. And the resolve change, my god what were Bioware thinking... So stay away from Ranked Warzones if you want to continue to find some solace in PvP, it's a bad joke, and that joke will be on you - unless your whole team is BiS and can grenade spam and coordinate your attacks to effectively nullify the entire other team because resolve is broken and damage is too high....

 

And for the record this isn't a QQ post, this is a where did it all go wrong post? So very very wrong...

Edited November 5, 2012 by Sweeet

And for the record this isn't a QQ post

 

 

But really, the one of the biggest flaws with the implementation of RWZs was the lack of a matchmaking system. It's completely demoralizing for a new team to be destroyed by the best team over and over again.

 

It's too late now. Unless there is a huge influx of F2P players (yeah right), even cross server queues won't have enough teams to have meaningful brackets.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Antipodes

Welcome to the club! Just be prepared for the L2P and working as intended posts. Anyone who is not currently on the top of the mountain knows 50 PvP is broken. And those who are are fighting to keep the status quo.

So stay away from Ranked Warzones if you want to continue to find some solace in PvP, it's a bad joke, and that joke will be on you - unless your whole team is BiS and can grenade spam and coordinate your attacks to effectively nullify the entire other team because resolve is broken and damage is too high....

 

I'm not going to get involved in the argument, but for a post that is complaining about the gear gap, the only thing you mentioned are grenades and team coordination, both of which you can acquire with a little bit of credits and a little bit of practice.

Welcome to the club! Just be prepared for the L2P and working as intended posts. Anyone who is not currently on the top of the mountain knows 50 PvP is broken. And those who are are fighting to keep the status quo.

 

Pretty sure he said that even with gear, the other team would still beat them with coordination. Which does imply L2P (i.e. practicing coordination/communication).

I'm really not crying about it, we played them multiple times after all for the experience, some of them were even friends who moved to said guild! The only thing tonight did is leave me further confused and kerfuffled at Bioware's direction on PvP.

 

Even if I did have decent gear, the damage to health ratio and successive CC should not be possible in competitive PvP. Blizzard got it and created diminishing returns on all CC and increased health to compensate for higher damage. When will Bioware get it? Resolve cannot help you if as soon as it has worn off you can get mezzed again for an entire 8 seconds by people coordinating moves.

 

it's not L2P, it's learn to take a player out of the game entirely so you can pick people off one at a time. It's not sporting and can hardly be called competitive. It is a joke and if that's how Bioware want me to learn how to play, well then they can have their PvP, I will have no part in it.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sweeet

"Cant do that while stunned" - the torch has been passed from WoW to SWTOR

 

But really, the one of the biggest flaws with the implementation of RWZs was the lack of a matchmaking system. It's completely demoralizing for a new team to be destroyed by the best team over and over again.

 

It's too late now. Unless there is a huge influx of F2P players (yeah right), even cross server queues won't have enough teams to have meaningful brackets.

 

Bioware and EA fully understand the ongoing problems in and with the current PvP System. All I know is that " They are working on a solution " and trying to get rid of the people who also hack.

 

Ranked war zones are very tough... Best of the best with all and only the best gear should even try. You will find professional PvPers along with professional Hackers along side them. They use apps like mumble, and vent to communicate and they are really tough if you are not equal to them. BM gear just won't cut the mustard there, I've gone in full WH gear and it's all augmented and it's still a loss... very tough area of the game period.

The Imps on the bastions bring premades to pugs

 

As long as the classes aren't even ,

 

You will find huge differences in factions as people want to dominate.

 

Even up the classes and people will play both

it's not L2P, it's learn to take a player out of the game entirely so you can pick people off one at a time. It's not sporting and can hardly be called competitive.

 

That statement reminds me of keyboard turners that get mad when people strafe behind them in a duel, and complain about how it's not 'honorable" to do that.

 

It's always amusing to me how uptight MMO players can be with made-up rules on what their vision of "sporting" combat should be.

 

If you feel grenades are overpowered, then make a new thread (since grenades are *not* exclusive to RWZs) with a strong argument on why that is. I would somewhat agree with you that grenades are OP, but as long as it is in the game, you can't fault players for using them.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Antipodes

This time again eh?

Pretty sure he said that even with gear, the other team would still beat them with coordination. Which does imply L2P (i.e. practicing coordination/communication).

 

"The better team won! It isn't fair!"

That statement reminds me of keyboard turners that get mad when people strafe behind them in a duel, and complain about how it's not 'honorable" to do that.

 

This has nothing to do with honour, it has everything to do with competitive PvP being fair for all. Currently the way in which CC allows for players to coordinate and take people out of combat for prolonged periods of times in turn with the VERY HIGH spike damage, makes PvP completely one-sided.

 

Think about it like this: If damage was not so high, having half your team sat in a mezz wouldn't be so bad as you could sit it out then get back into the fight with a chance of winning. But having half your team in a mezz and then picking off the ones who break out in seconds, yes killing said players in seconds, is not fair or sporting. And in my case having better gear would not make a difference to the time in which they kill me as I am already pretty much at the expertise and health cap possible for me to get, all I can really do now is raise my damage which would not have helped me at all in these warzones tonight.

 

I'm not attacking Bioware in a blind rage here, I'm looking at the solution they have provided for competitive PvP and I am shaking my head in disgrace. It's just plain awful.

 

If you feel grenades are overpowered, then make a new thread (since grenades are *not* exclusive to RWZs) with a strong argument on why that is. I would somewhat agree with you that grenades are OP, but as long as it is in the game, you can't fault players for using them.

 

Exactly, and they, combined with all the other CC and crappy resolve make competitive PvP a big mess. I just didn't realise just how big a mess until tonight.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sweeet

Grenades have a cooldown, and your team has access to them too. Good teams don't get wiped out fast. In fact, it's incredibly hard to cap the middle nodes of Novare/CW because people often respawn faster than the rate of killing.

Currently the way in which CC allows for players to coordinate and take people out of combat for prolonged periods of times in turn with the VERY HIGH spike damage, makes PvP completely one-sided.

 

 

Its only one-sided if they can do it and you cant. In theory you both can, the only thing preventing it is skill.

 

There are some issues with PvP, but its not "one-sided". Some players are better than others, end of story. For me, the biggest issue with PvP right now is the sorc/sage bubble and it only granting half the resolve it should.

This time again eh?

 

You say that like PvP in it's current state is actually a good thing for the game

 

People will do the best with what they've got, they will always take the least path of resistance. I'm not blaming the players here, but when that path breaks the PvP experience for others by making them literally helpless, it will only put them off of the game. Sometimes you have to look at what is best for the whole and not just for your immediate gratification.

 

PvP in it's current sate is hurting the game, it doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Just because something takes skill to pull off doesn't stop it from being a cheap tactic.

In the games current state, F2P people will play a few wzs and never touch them again. Or worse, will tell their friends that pvp is terrible and Bioware will lose a lot of possible subs. That isn't good for the long term health of the game.

Its only one-sided if they can do it and you cant. In theory you both can, the only thing preventing it is skill.

 

There are some issues with PvP, but its not "one-sided". Some players are better than others, end of story. For me, the biggest issue with PvP right now is the sorc/sage bubble and it only granting half the resolve it should.

 

Yes true both party's can potentially do it, but as I said above it doesn't stop it from being a cheap tactic and it really is hurting PvP in it's current state. It's holding the game back, it really is. I know a lot of people who have quit over the state of PvP, and I really can't fault them.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Sweeet

Well my guild decided to do some Ranked Warzones tonight. Half the team were in full BiS WH, the other half a mix BM/WH - myself being a mix of BM/WH. All of us fully augmented.

 

Now all you people out there saying that a fully augmented BM player is comparable to a fully augmented WH player, are flat out lying or have no idea what they are talking about. The team we went up against, multiple times, have all BiS WH and spammed grenades like there is no tomorrow. I have never, in my entire time spent PvP'ing, died so quickly or have been CC'd so much.

 

I had quite a few 1v1's versus these guys, and my Sentinel could not do a thing to beat any of them, even specs I know how to beat and beat all the time in normal WZ's. Is was not a matter of skill, just shear damage. I have over 1300 Expertise and these guys were cutting through me like butter and there was not a thing I could do about it, even with my uber defensive cooldowns. I was being taken down with shear brute force alone.

 

The last game we played, Huttball, was just a complete joke. I can now say without a shadow of a doubt that the resolve change was the worst idea Bioware have ever had. In a competitive PvP setting it should not be possible to spend over half the game either completely incapacitated or unable to move through grenade/slow spamming. These were pro's and when they mezzed, they made sure not to break us out of it and just focused us one at a time. The trouble is, we could be mezzed/stunned/incapacitated so many times within a minute, our stun breaker was pretty much useless.

 

You people think going up against a 4-man premade of BiS WH players is bad...I think you would quit the game entirely if you played the team we played tonight. These guys were sick, both in a good and a bad way. It just highlighted how utterly broken PvP is at a competitive level - no wonder Season 1 hasn't started yet, it would be absolute carnage.

 

And it doesn't matter if you finally reach BiS yourself, the damage a competent team is capable of through clever use of grenade spamming and coordinating attacks, will bring the best geared player down in seconds. That kind of damage should not be possible in a competitive PvP environment, it is game breaking. I have close to the Expertise cap and 18500 health, so even when I do each BiS myself, I will still die just as quickly, I just may stand a chance at killing them before they kill me. Assuming I stick around that long, this DPS arms race is not fun in the slightest. One mistake, and it's dead. One cooldown unavailable, and it's dead.

 

I knew PvP was in a bad place right now, but I had no idea just how bad until going up against this team tonight. I'm appalled that PvP has been allowed to get this bad. At the very least damage needs to be toned down, I see no logical reason for it being so high when BiS with the limited health pools available, none at all. And the resolve change, my god what were Bioware thinking... So stay away from Ranked Warzones if you want to continue to find some solace in PvP, it's a bad joke, and that joke will be on you - unless your whole team is BiS and can grenade spam and coordinate your attacks to effectively nullify the entire other team because resolve is broken and damage is too high....

 

And for the record this isn't a QQ post, this is a where did it all go wrong post? So very very wrong...

 

The problem with the Match making system in RWZs is simply the lack of one. They just put random teams who queue against each other, and often scenarios like you have described happens. You are simply outskilled/outclassed by those players, and your team is unable to coordinate and work together like the opposite team. You got destroyed. So play more and learn to play on a higher lvl, or quit? Your QQ on the forums won't make you better.

 

What they have or can do, is available to everyone.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Moriganno

The problem is the competition you should be facing is most likely farming normals in a 4 man premade. I imagine the elite team you faced is just as annoyed with the situation. That said CC is the one fair thing in the game, your team can do exactly the same thing, no grinding or rank required.

The problem with the Match making system in RWZs is simply the lack of one. They just put random teams who queue against each other, and often scenarios like you have described happens.

 

There arent enough teams on servers for proper match-making. On our server, there are often only a handful of teams playing ranked. If a new team happens to decide they want to try it out, like happened tonight? They will get stomped every single game by the top teams, because those are the only teams left actively doing ranked.

 

We need cross-server and we need it soon. Thats the only way new and developing teams will face fair competition.

I'm not going to get involved in the argument, but for a post that is complaining about the gear gap, the only thing you mentioned are grenades and team coordination, both of which you can acquire with a little bit of credits and a little bit of practice.

 

And also that they don't normally do RWZ and ran into a top tier guild. I can imagine a couple of those on EB, where all the players know each other and play with each other regularly. It's unfortunate but until cross-server queues are implemented only kickball games will be fun or viable.

What I don't understand,from a design point of view,is why make gear so much of a factor in pvp.

 

What's wrong with making the gear basically equal,and let the best team win?

In the games current state, F2P people will play a few wzs and never touch them again. Or worse, will tell their friends that pvp is terrible and Bioware will lose a lot of possible subs. That isn't good for the long term health of the game.

 

I don't agree pvp is competitive and new players if competitive will

Improve themselves to be competitive the qq you see on the forums about pvp is from a small minority of people

That hate to lose blame everything on anything but themselves have limited understanding of the games mechanics

And would rather whinge and complain to change the game to suit them rather than just learning to play

I don't agree pvp is competitive and new players if competitive will

Improve themselves to be competitive the qq you see on the forums about pvp is from a small minority of people

That hate to lose blame everything on anything but themselves have limited understanding of the games mechanics

And would rather whinge and complain to change the game to suit them rather than just learning to play

 

I'm not complaining, I'm just saying it like it is. F2P players wont bother with wzs after playing a few. Theyre playing for the story, not to be frustrated.