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The beauty of rage

Dethla-Hadyn

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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Rage Juggernaut PvP guide/discussion Thread

 

 

The following concepts and ideas are a result of playing a juggernaut since launch. I've always been an avid defender of the class and have enjoyed all aspects of juggernaut game play, even when the times were rough. I've never been top ranked in any season, but I do well. That said, I'd enjoy the opportunity to spar with the top ranked jugs/guards, so that I may perhaps learn new techniques and test myself against steep competition. I urge you all to share that same "always a student" mindset.

 

I'll touch on a few basic concepts that can not be overstated, then I'll talk about a few Rage dps "Combos".

 

 

Soresu

 

 

How many of you even have Soresu up on your quickbars?

 

I want to see all jugs/guards entering Soresu Form before accepting the Arena pop. Yes, this includes both Rage and Vengeance players. The reasons for entering an arena in Soresu are mainly the following:

 

  • Confusion. The enemy team won't know what spec you are actually playing.
     
  • You're in Soresu... The defensive capabilities are very good against incoming damage and it will force the enemy team to reconsider their attack focus strategies.

 

Let's take a look at what Soresu actually yields:

  • 46.5% damage reduction.
  • 16% extra reduction on internal/elemental damage
  • 8% defense chance

 

When these passives are combined with your defensive cooldowns and adrenal, you are actually quite durable, and moderately capable of sustaining a substantial focus attempt, especially if equipped with a shield offhand(will elaborate later).

 

The goal is to switch to your chosen offensive form, when your intuition and round progression warrants it. Soresu form will decrease your damage output overall by 13%, so it has drawbacks that come with the superior survivability. It's an acceptable trade-off when you are able to switch saber forms safely. I highly encourage you all to enable keybinds now, that allow you to switch saber forms effortlessly in the ring. Practise this daily on your training dummy, and in sparring against other pvp'ers.

 

 

 

Taunts

 

 

Taunting always has been extremely important, but even more now in 4.0. Everyone has greater health pools, and *greater damage*. Think about that for a second. A taunt decreases a target's damage for 6 seconds, by 30%...that's huge considering the damage numbers flying around out there. For example, you could reduced a relic proc auto crit aimed at a friendly player by upwards on 8k to 9k, simply by taking the time to apply a single taunt. I have yet to meet another dps sin, jug or pt that has had superior protection values than mine in an arena, ever. I stand behind what I say, and I'm proud of those numbers win or lose. Be sure to keybind your taunts as well.

 

 

 

Rage Combos

 

Here are a few quick combos that I like to employ. For now I'll simply list a few, add more, and then elaborate their usage with updates. The goal here is to simply practice them individually until they are smooth and second nature. Then the next step is to start combining them, by selecting the right filler moves which in turn depend on relic procs. Properly identifying your relic procs and internal damage modifiers, has never been more important.

 

 

Rude Awakening

Force Charge -- Vicious Throw -- Force Scream (Avg 15-18k)

  • -quick damage application
  • -resource self-sufficient
  • -AutoCrit Proc

 

Welcome Home

Sundering Assault -- Furious Strike (Avg 15-20k)

  • -double debuff to maximize further damage(20% armor -- 5%melee bonus)
  • -resource sufficiency when paired

 

Korriban Kiss

Force Crush -- Ravage -- Raging Burst (Avg 33-38k)

  • -snare enables full Ravage channel
  • -last tick of Ravage and Raging Burst are to be executed at exact same time

 

Snakebite

Force Crush -- Obliterate -- Raging Burst (Avg 22-29k)

  • -allows good skirmish damage from melee
  • -snaps back in with leap, Raging Burst lands exact same time as Force Crush's final tick.

 

Skullcrusher

Ravage "clipped at 2.7 seconds" -- Furious Strike (Avg 25-32k)

  • -devastating if final ravage hit crits followed by an auto-crit

 

Ultimate Power

Force Charge -- Enrage -- Raging Burst -- Force Scream -- Furious Strike -- Vicious Throw(Avg 47-59k)

  • -should command a relic procs for finishers easily
  • -elusiveness with 50% speed buff, allowing great skirmish options

 

Contributions

 

Your information uploaded here.

 

No Alacrity or Accuracy for Rage Jugs.

 

I go 3 x critical and rest overkill.

With stim, full datacrons, and min maxed gear - you have 40% critical, 85.35% crit. multiplier, and well over 2400 bonus damage.

 

I hit hard and crit more often. I tested different augments and this was the best one for hardest hits and consistency of crits.

 

 

Intercede is a big key to staying alive, I pickup the heroic talent for it and I also use a no alacrity no accuracy build. Sure I miss occasionally but with force attacks and riposte I don't notice it all that much.

 

 

I'd take 2 seconds of extra Saber Reflect (5 secs in total). Much more useful in Solo Rated.

 

 

 

There is no strict rotation in PvP because the situation should determine what you use.

 

Focused burst and force sweep is an auto crit after you use any of your leaps. Don't use them unless you have said auto-crit. Also, there is a buff named singularity which increases the damage focused burst and force sweep does. You'll gain the buff from using either combat focus or force exhaustion. Do what you can to have this buff up when using focused burst / force sweep because it consumes no focus and does an additional 15% dmg when the buff is up. It is also important to note that, since 4.0, using focused burst or force sweep gives you a 5% DR buff for six seconds, so it is to your benefit using these on CD.

 

Concentrated Slice auto-crit is tied to blade storm now instead of saber throw, so saber throw should be used situationally (especially if you are specced into the 3 second root). Even without the auto-crit buff provided once every minute by blade storm, concentrated slice crits fairly regularly due to the high amount of crit focus/rage should be stacking in their gear.

 

With all of this being said, I will give my own order of importance to the primary offensive abilities for focus:

 

  1. Focused Burst w/ singularity and auto-crit buffs
  2. Blade Storm w/ buff to generate focus and if it will provide auto-crit to concentrated slice (this goes down the list if targets health is low)
  3. Concentrated Slice
  4. Dispatch when available (speccing into it's use after force leap is a god-send!)
  5. Blade Dance (I always spec into the root it provides)
  6. Blade Storm w/ buff to generate focus but no auto-crit buff
  7. Sundering Strike
  8. Riposte

 

 

 

 

I am loving it!!! Not only the stronger, quicker burst, but also the superior mobility and now good sustained damage (ty, ty, ty dispatch! How I love your 15k crits!).

 

Yes, good players can stun-lock and burst you down without Vig's stun immunity and sturdiness, but a good focus guardian should pick his fights more carefully and use stuns pro-actively to prevent that from happening.

 

 

Just to put my 2 cents in, the best burst damage "combo" in Rage right now is probably

 

Crush > Raging Burst > Furious Strike (the big damage all happens within the span of a GCD - Ideally this is how you want to use your autocrit imo.

 

 

I was running full overkill then switched to half crit augs and I think this is what I'm going to roll with. I've also been running with 6.13% alacrity....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PvP Mindset

 

 

 

Sizing up the competition before the round begins, is essential. You'll need to examine the other classes/specs, as well as who the likely focus target may be on your team. Regardless If you suspect it may be you, again, I urge all jugs to simply enter Soresu form *regardless of spec*, in an effort to disillusion the enemy team. I change specs occasionally, the enemy team doesn't need to know what damage form I've selected to play that game. Once again, this "Soresu Effect" will really take hold when everyone gets on board.

 

Against Stealth

 

If you see alot of stealth on the other team, you will definitely want to enter Soresu if you are the only Rage jug on your team. If the enemy team has selected a different focus target, other than you, immediately switch to offencive stance and begin taunting. TAUNTING is your primary objective, before using your charge. Intercede to your victimized teammate, to offer additional damage reduction against their assault. These two moves are your primary objectives. They are way more important than jumping in and applying a rotation against either deflection, or forceshroud. Operatives are too hard to lockdown, but they can be pressured during a stun. Use *your* stuns to peel the enemies off of your teammate, *after* you have firstly taunted then interceded.

 

So the priorities for a Rage jug in arenas against stealth, when you are not being focused first are:

-Taunt

-Intercede

-CC

-Apply Damage

 

 

 

Against Melee

 

As a Rage jug against other melee, you're main objective is aggression. You cannot sit back and wait for something to happen. Unless of course, you're grouped with all ranged teammates, at that point, stay in Soresu and become the bait. Again, when it is clear that you are not the primary target, switch to Shii-cho stance after taunting and begin your assault. One trick I tried once was against three enemies racing at me all brandishing lightsabers.. I had a team that wasn't sure what to do, so I began charging right back. Before I got into the Force Charge range, I used Mad Dash directly at them, to foil their inevitable leaps at me. By the time Mad Dash was done, luckily the three attackers were close enough together, to all be stunned with my aoe mezz.(Intimidating Roar). I tell ya, *that* was incredible to see. My team lost that round, but seeing those guys all mezzed in the middle of their triumphant charge to battle, was hilarious...and it bought a few seconds for my team to continue their onslaught on the fourth member. If in fact you try this, and they all use their cc-breaker, immediately have a seismic grenade ready, to stun them all again. If they do not use their cc'break... stun them anyways. If you can hold off two or more of the enemy team solo, while your guys beat down a different target, you definitely should.

 

As a Rage jug against melee..it's also perfectly fine to kite your melee adversary. It sounds strange coming from a jug, but you can use your snares, roots, and speed buffs to dance around their saber range, and use a few cooldowns of mid-ranged force attacks(Force scream, Raging burst, Saber throw, Force crush, etc). You'll never be able to kite for long, but also remember to use your force attacks, away from immediate danger of aoe dotspread for example. I also use my saber throw root to stop and/or control a target while I wait for an opportunity to isolate one of them...or I use it to stop one from kiting me.

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

Common Opening Strategy Discussions

 

 

As Rage, you have to be the skirmisher. Ideally, you'll be discussing target priorities with your arena group, and must try to coordinate a "cc chain"( alternating crowd control abilities with teammates). Be ready to chase down fleeing targets, or divert to a freecasting ranged target. If you cannot reach the freecaster, use a taunt at least. You can't charge in on a group of sorcs and hatred assassins, and try to slug it out with them. Their aoe and dots will chew you up. Let the Vengeance jugs do the dirty work, while you use force push to isolate one of them and force their cooldowns with your burst.

 

Bait

 

I repeat, you must be in Soresu if you are going to play the bait. If you are not employing this strategy, you should try to work out an aggressive attack plan with your team. Standing there in Shii-cho form, waiting to be stun-locked by stealth, is just bad for business.

 

 

 

Gear

 

 

Not really too much to say here about gear, because the minor differences between augment stats for example, really boil down to playstyles. Alacrity.. is it good for a rage jug in arenas? not likely the best, but it can assist in the fleeing target "1 vs 1" scenarios that your role of "team finisher" will command. If you have access to experiment with alacrity, go ahead, but new players should instead focus on crit/power/mastery. I've always ran 1 single enhancement with accuracy, but it's only been for good luck. Focus on removing all enhancements that don't have Power Crit in them from your Vindicator pvp gear, and replace them with ones that do.

 

 

Utilities

 

 

Again, personal preferences here. I select speed buff with enrage, the free vicious throw after charge, saber throw root, mad dash root break. The others in my opinion, are all seasonal. However... I believe it is a *MUST* for you to have the free vicious throw after charge. The rest are up to you.

 

Edited by Dethla-Hadyn
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Arunas

Arunas

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I haven't played that much at all, and I don't have early access, but…

 

I feel the same way. I feel like Rage is fun again, and my burst abilities actually do burst. Vengeance was really boring.

 

Is that at lvl65? How much crit rating do you have?

Edited by Arunas
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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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What changed, outside of saber-f*cking-finally-throw?

 

Nothing.... Everything.

 

Mad dash truly enables style and self expression, and compliments the midranged force attacks that the spec possesses. Rage always had better mobility, but now it's simply...breathtaking to play.

 

I doubt I'll ever play vengeance again, although my fresh 60 guardian synthweaver;) will remain vigilance, as our benevolent developers intended.

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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If someone proofs to me that rage does more sustained than smash I'll finally consider learning the spec. Otherwise, I don't care :p

 

(this is from a pve pov;) )

 

 

 

You'll need rydarus and a few others to help you there with those vengeance particulars, for they are the pve'ers. From the pvp perspective, so far I've seen vengeance jugs doing a bit more damage overall that I have been on rage, but those averages are based on a pure dotspread/sustained damage with uneven healers per team perspective. I suspect that will hold true for pve as well, but it's too early to confirm at this point, for I haven't found the optimal rage gear/aug set up yet, and I'd need another healer on my team lol.

 

Ultimately, rage offers lethal single target capabilities that will cause fear and make opponents dizzy. Vengeance however will still be the spec that leads the charge and causes the enemy to flee away and spread out, creating opportunities for rage jugs to swoop in and finish them off.

 

I'll do what I can to provide more info between the two specs on the coming weekend.

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amandakun

amandakun

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Just to clarify, is this above thread being made from a PvP or PvE perspective? I just wish to know because i've always prefered Burst over sustained DPS (even if sustained is 'better' in longer PvE fights... i prefer spiky big numbers to overall better damage... and i often find burst>sustained for lvling as well)
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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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Just to clarify, is this above thread being made from a PvP or PvE perspective? I just wish to know because i've always prefered Burst over sustained DPS (even if sustained is 'better' in longer PvE fights... i prefer spiky big numbers to overall better damage... and i often find burst>sustained for lvling as well)

 

PvP. Pve'ers are welcome to include their discoveries if they wish, but this thread will be used to showcase the "beauty of rage" spec in pvp.

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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To be continued...

 

Here's a pic of my gear set up as of late.

 

http://imgur.com/TCFUjwy

 

 

 

All I did was purchase the stock Exemplar, and leave two accuracy enhancements in. I swapped the other two with critical. The earpiece and implants are all Adept Critical. I've equipped a full set of Alacrity Augments. The value granted for having 14 Alacrity augments is 10.41%.

 

Of course the trade off is to equip all Mastery or Power Augments, that will increase your bonus damage quite a bit, and you will indeed reach 30k crits easily. I was hitting 25k-26k relic proc crits with un-augmented stock Exemplar. Additionally, Pooled Hatred assists these big numbers on an auto crit relic proc. I'm going to keep my accuracy values where they are as well.

 

My decision to use Alacrity Augments, is a personal stylistic choice at this point in time. I'm completely addicted to the finesse of the spec, and with full Alacrity augs, the speed achieved on the battlefield is beyond my powers of explanation. It's Very, Very Cool. So, jugs have a choice with augs. Hit like a freaking Peterbilt and increase bonus damage with these crit/surge stats^..... or become a speed demon corvette and use alacrity. The choice is yours.

Edited by Dethla-Hadyn
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Plicitous

Plicitous

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Rage is just flat out better than Vengeance now. All of it's problems were solved and if you know how to read the discipline screen and aren't an idiot about choosing utilities it was given an additional ranged attack that regularly crits for 10k. I'm guessing the smash monkeys hopped up on Alacrity don't want to hear it but it's their turn to play 2nd fiddle for a while. Edited by Plicitous
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Alec_Fortescue

Alec_Fortescue

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Rage is just flat out better than Vengeance now. All of it's problems were solved and if you know how to read the discipline screen and aren't an idiot about choosing utilities it was given an additional ranged attack that regularly crits for 10k. I'm guessing the smash monkeys hopped up on Alacrity don't want to hear it but it's their turn to play 2nd fiddle for a while.

 

I wouldn't say so (at least yet), just better in different set ups and situations and playstyle.

Edited by Alec_Fortescue
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helpmewin

helpmewin

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Rage is just flat out better than Vengeance now. All of it's problems were solved and if you know how to read the discipline screen and aren't an idiot about choosing utilities it was given an additional ranged attack that regularly crits for 10k. I'm guessing the smash monkeys hopped up on Alacrity don't want to hear it but it's their turn to play 2nd fiddle for a while.

 

There is almost no difference between 3.0 and 4.0 in players choise - 90% plays in vengeance, "dunno". 10% in tank and rage.

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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There is almost no difference between 3.0 and 4.0 in players choise - 90% plays in vengeance, "dunno". 10% in tank and rage.

 

Vengeance has always been more popular, additionally, it does more damage overall in regs with proper dot spread. Vengeance will always be good, but I'll never play it again lmao.

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helpmewin

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Vengeance has always been more popular, additionally, it does more damage overall in regs with proper dot spread. Vengeance will always be good, but I'll never play it again lmao.

 

Not only dis, vengeance is tanky, CC immune e.t.c. Anyway i like rage more coz burst even if rage spec more squishy.

Edited by helpmewin
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AchillesStark

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Here's a pic of my gear set up as of late.

 

http://imgur.com/TCFUjwy

 

 

 

All I did was purchase the stock Exemplar, and leave two accuracy enhancements in. I swapped the other two with critical. The earpiece and implants are all Adept Critical. I've equipped a full set of Alacrity Augments. The value granted for having 14 Alacrity augments is 10.41%.

 

Of course the trade off is to equip all Mastery or Power Augments, that will increase your bonus damage quite a bit, and you will indeed reach 30k crits easily. I was hitting 25k-26k relic proc crits with un-augmented stock Exemplar. Additionally, Pooled Hatred assists these big numbers on an auto crit relic proc. I'm going to keep my accuracy values where they are as well.

 

My decision to use Alacrity Augments, is a personal stylistic choice at this point in time. I'm completely addicted to the finesse of the spec, and with full Alacrity augs, the speed achieved on the battlefield is beyond my powers of explanation. It's Very, Very Cool. So, jugs have a choice with augs. Hit like a freaking Peterbilt and increase bonus damage with these crit/surge stats^..... or become a speed demon corvette and use alacrity. The choice is yours.

 

26k slice unaugmented, how?

 

Im experimenting between rage and venge. So far with 40% crit chance and 85 crit multiplier, im only doing 22k with slice on double relic proc.

 

All power crit enhance, mostly mastery aug besides 1 crit aug. power and mastery relics. Still, cant reach 25k crit slice.

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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26k slice unaugmented, how?

 

Im experimenting between rage and venge. So far with 40% crit chance and 85 crit multiplier, im only doing 22k with slice on double relic proc.

 

All power crit enhance, mostly mastery aug besides 1 crit aug. power and mastery relics. Still, cant reach 25k crit slice.

 

Like I said, it was probably relic procs on pooled hatred. Things move really fast in pvp lol.

 

Edit.

Actually got to play some ranked tonight against geared opponents, and not one crit breached 20k. Will keep tabs on it lol.

 

Tip: - Don't use force crush against another jug.

Edited by Dethla-Hadyn
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JacobLorenzen

JacobLorenzen

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Like I said, it was probably relic procs on pooled hatred. Things move really fast in pvp lol.

 

Edit.

Actually got to play some ranked tonight against geared opponents, and not one crit breached 20k. Will keep tabs on it lol.

 

Tip: - Don't use force crush against another jug.

 

 

What are your utilites i have tried vengeance and it just seems weak right now wanna look into rage

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Alec_Fortescue

Alec_Fortescue

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What are your utilites i have tried vengeance and it just seems weak right now wanna look into rage

 

Vengeance isn't weak. You need to play it as an aoe spec in PvP. Don't go 1 v 1 people because it's one of the lowest single-target sustained specs right now. :)

 

Utilities are same as before although Ravage Root now makes sense due to the crit chance.

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Dethla-Hadyn

Dethla-Hadyn

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Meh, throw root is crap. I'd take 2 seconds of extra Saber Reflect (5 secs in total). Much more useful in Solo Rated. Or an extra stunbreaker with Focused Defense!

 

Otherwise, I am the same.

 

 

:rak_02:

 

Playstyle selections...I'm not going to argue the merits of what I selected. I'll take mine, you take yours. However, they're all good bottom tier selections, but for the way I play rage, mine were quite easy to select.

 

Good luck!

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