This guide is based on research of the best players in the game. It has been developed and refined since 1.1. In the thread that follows many top players have presented their approachs and challenged this guide and their methods have been incorported where they are superior. It reprsents an approach that will get you close to the best possible DPS from your guardian.

What are guardians like DPS wise

Vigilance is primarily a single target skill tree that has excelent clutch aoe. The main attacks do decent instant damage and they are backed up by mid range bleeds. This makes us good over 12 - 15 seconds and good when we can stay on the boss for long periods. Guardians do not have the ability to create significant bursts during a fight they are better at sustained DPS.

Vigilance is better than focus at single target dps by about 80 - 100dps in the hands of the best players in dummy tests. Guardians have the best dispatch DPS in the game (once the boss is under 30%) by a fair bit. The best Guardians do about 200dps less than the best Sentinals against Dummies (which does not include a Dispatch phase). Vigilance is also significantly harder to play that Focus spec or Sentianl Watchman spec (I also play a Sentinal) However you will beat meny Sentinals if you are skilled. Players of Vigilance Guardians have completed the tuffest content in the game and carried their weight as a DPS class in terms of output.

Vigilance Guardians dont have Inspiration and the crappy ones are quite poor (where as bad sentianls are still quite good and they have inspiration)

Republic & Sith Mirrior Skills

Sith - Republic

Ravage - Master Strike

Assult - Strike

Smash - Force Sweep

Sunder - Sunder

Shatter - Plasma Brand

Impale - Overhead Strike

Build:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Guardian#22-7kddj282k3-k This is ruffly the build I have been using as Vigilance spec Guardian dps since the 1.3 patch came out. The following remarks all apply to this build

Essential Sklls:

Victory Rush - for focus generation

Burning Blade - Bleeds

Burning Purpose - Bleeds

Force Rush - for Crit procs

Optional but prefered skills:

Momentum - we leap a lot and this skill amounts to a lot of extra focus and makes the three much smoother to play.

Unremitting - Many bosses knock back this is an advantage over the other melee classes that get knocked back.

Commanding Awe - Guardians are significantly less squishy than sentinals this maximises that fact and combat focus is quite a good multi use button with Commanding Awe.

Skill Priority:

Master Strike (MS) ~20% - 30% (no focus cost). Because MS has a 30% chance to refresh its cool down when you use plasma brand and overhead slash you can do quite a lot of damage with it if you always use it when its ready - you can further increase this by putting 2 more skill points into it from the focus tree. However you cannot keep all 3 bleeds up if you use MS every time it cools down. Master Strike cannot proc more than once every 9 seconds with 3 points in Zen Strike.

Guardians have 3 abilities that have a bleed associated with them. The bleeds account for ~16 - 20% of your total damage if you keep them up as much as possible.

Plasma Brand (PB) produces ~10% of total damage + procs a bleed 4 times over 12 sec. (500 per tick)

Blade Storm (BS) produces ~15% of you total damage + procs a bleed 6 times in 6 seconds (70 per tick)

Overhand Slash (OS) produces ~15% of your total damage + procs a bleed 6 times in 6 seconds (110 per tick)

Each tick can crit - also the ticks from PB & OS are slightly gear dependent.

These abilities all have a 9 second cool down so ideal use means the 6 second bleeds are up 6 out of every 10.5 seconds also using them as a priority increases bleed up-time.

Best DPS is generated by keeping bleeds up and using Mastrer Strike when it procs. Because Master strike can only proc every 9 seconds DO NOT use it immediatly. You have 9 seconds until the ability that proced Master Strike cools down and can proc it again so use Master strike once your bleeds are up. Keeping Plasma brand ticking is essential however you will create top DPS when you also have the bleeds from Overhead Strike and Blade Storm up.

Sundering strike ~10% of total damage. Sundering strike is the primary way that you generate focus and for this reason a typical priority is: Sunder OS PB Sunder (MS / BS) MS is used if it procs otherwise BS. Note that BS will always crit because you use OS or PB first. This is the priority that many players use. Here is a video (not mine) showing this approach

I have developed another approach which has a similar structure but produces better DPS where I switch the positions of BS and PB. This approach is better becase OS & BS do more initial damage and PB has a 12 second bleed with smaller initial damage. PB is only our top DPS producer if we use it at 9 or 12 seconds! The advantages of this approach are better management of the PB bleed, keeping the 6 second bleeds up more and using OS & BS more while PB is ticking.

To break it down:

Opening: Saber Throw - Force Leap - Plasma Brand OR Combat Focus

Rotation 1: Master Strike - Sunder

Rotation 2: Overhead Slash - Blade Storm - Sunder

Rotation 3: Plasma Brand - Strike - Sunder

Start with rotation 1 - then go into rotation 2 - if MS Procs after R2 or Plasma Brand (from R3) then skip the Strike - Sunder after PB and go back to R1. This method creates the greatest flexibility around the use of PB while keeping a simple 3 macro structure.

There are 3 variations on Rotation 3:

1: Plasma Brand - Strike - Sunder

2: Plasma Brand - Sweep - Sunder

3: Plasma Brand - Saber throw - Sunder

2 & 3 do much better DPS

You can use 2 rotations to include a run out and leap manouver each of these takes the same time to exicute as the regualer version. The run out & leap generate a lot of focus and cost no down time.

R2: Overhead Strike - (run out) Blade Storm - Leap

R3: Plasma Brand - (run out) Saber Throw - Leap

The best DPS is produced by useing the run out manouver with Blade Storm. The reason is that often you get a Master Strike proc and so are able to skip the moves after Plasma Brand and go straght to R1.

If you manage your rotation so you NEVER use Strike you will produce the absolute top dps.

Force Sweep and Cyclone are our aoe abilities. In this build force sweep has no focus cost a 12 second cooldown and generates 1 focus. In AOE situations use Force Sweep and Cyclone together. But only use Cyclone if you are facing 4 or 5 mobs otherwise it is not worth the force cost.

When dispatch is up it provides the best DPS and because it has a 60% extra crit chance when you use Plasma Brand or Overhead Strike first, the best rotation during dispatch is Sunder, OS, Dispatch, Master Strike, Sunder, Saber throw, PB Dispatch, Sunder.... Use MS when its up and dispatch is on cool down.

During a short burn phase it is possible to do very good dps - e.g. on the Bombardiers in the Kephess encounter you can build focus on the trash so that you enter the Bombardier fights with a full focus bar then: PB, BS, OS, MS, Dispatch

Is a 9 second burst in which Blade storm and Dispatch will crit 98% of the time.

Gearing:

Strength + Power > Crit > Surge. Don’t get alacrity almost all our abilities are instant attacks.

100% accuracy means our special attacks hit 110% of the time, since boss mobs defence is 10% you will hit with specials 100% of the time. Since most of our attacks are specials after 100% accuracy we are better to stack other stats.

Once you get 100% accuracy > 32-33% buffed crit > 75% surge stack strength > Power.

1 point of power = .23 bonus damage

1 point of Strength = .2 bonus damage + some crit. However Guardians get Perseverance which gives us +6% strength, the sage buff gives an additional 5% on primary stat.

So 100 power x.23 = +23 bonus damage

while 100 strength +6+5 = 111 times .2 = 22.2 bonus damage & around .72% crit.

Take a look at this graph about diminishing returns http://imgur.com/uA2y2

Currently diminishing returns kick in at 25% crit (from +crit) & 25% surge (it starts at 50% so this totals 75%).

The Diminishing returns do not currently affect power or strength in any major way. Crit from Strength is on a separate diminishing returns curve than crit from +crit so even after you hit 32% crit (the point at which crit from gear becomes uneconomical) you will still get ruffly the same crit per 100 strength. In terms of strength or power after 32% crit - stack strength where you can but its close so go for mods with the biggest combined total.

here is a chart that shows you eaxctly how much crit from strength decreases as your str goes up

Crit Chance % Increase from Primary Stat

1% 125 Primary Stat = 1% crit

2% 254 Primary Stat = 1.997% crit chance (127.19 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

3% 388 Primary Stat = 2.989% crit chance (129.48 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

4% 528 Primary Stat = 4.003% crit chance (131.91 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

5% 672 Primary Stat = 4.998% crit chance (134.44 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

6% 823 Primary Stat = 6.001% crit chance (137.13 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

7% 980 Primary Stat = 7.002% crit chance (139.96 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

8% 1144 Primary Stat = 8.002% crit chance (142.95 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

9% 1315 Primary Stat = 8.999% crit chance (146.12 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

10% 1495 Primary Stat = 10.0% crit chance (149.50 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

11% 1684 Primary Stat = 10.999% crit chance (153.10 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

12% 1883 Primary Stat = 11.998% crit chance (156.95 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

13% 2094 Primary Stat = 12.999% crit chance (161.09 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

14% 2318 Primary Stat = 14.001% crit chance (165.56 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

15% 2556 Primary Stat = 15.001% crit chance (170.39 Primary Stat per 1% crit)

Notice that even with 2500 strength you get a better overall gain from strength.

Relics:

Pre 1.6 there was wide spread agreement that 2x WH relics was best. Patch 1.6 introduced the new Dread Guard relics & the Elite War Hero relic (EWH). On paper the DG Proc relic and the DG Clicky are the BIS

If you like the proc relic then Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transcendance is the one to get.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=562338&page=6 details this. I found this put out 77 DPS from ticks during testing.

Use any combination or EWH & Dread Guard Relic of Boundless Ages (350 power clicky) & Dread Guard Relic of Elemental Transendance depending on the situation.

On paper the Clicky is better than EWH by 14 power over 2 min. Also many bosses have burn phases and for these bosses being able to hit the clicky and get 350 power for 30 sec while inspriation is up is a strong advantage. So even thou your DPS will suffer a little using the Clicky over the EWH its worth it on any fight where beating a burst phase is central to winning the encounter. If the issue in the encounter is a tight enrage timer either use the clicky every 2 min or if thats too hard (it is for me) then the EWH will be better.

Parses & Screen Shots:

As promised below here is my parse using the methods described in this post:

http://www.torparse.com/a/86332

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/dc80c839-3177-4685-9105-eadcbab79507

This is a parse using the gear test rotation: R3 - R2 - R3 - R2 - R3 etc.

Rotation 2: Overhead Slash - Blade Storm - Sunder

Rotation 3: Plasma Brand - Strike - Sunder

This rotation is stable as it avoids the unpredictability MS proc - generally tests are within 30 DPS so it is useful for testing gear changes. You have to run it 2 or 3 times to get a clear picture as here one of the 3 is out.

Heres a screen shot of 1900 DPS over 5 min.

http://www.torparse.com/a/145527 look at 8:52:01 to 8:57:23

This is made using the methods described in this post gear is mostly Dread Guard, raid buffs and stim no adrenals.

If you want to see what a top player in 63 gear can do this is Muaall

http://www.torparse.com/a/46568/time/1352528790/1352529090 (view the final parse on the list)

Here is a thread with the top DPSers in the game: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534251

Guardians arnt on it - people seem to frequently ask the question 'can guardians DPS ok?' The answer is YES we are fine many Guardians top their raid dps lists. Vigilance Guardians are one of the hardest classes to master and the top guardians cant do better than the top Sentinals. However Guardians also dont do great on parses for 2 reasons: our dispatch phase (in the last 30% of the fight) is the best in the game, and we get focus when we take area affect damage which increases our DPS potential in raids compaired to what happens on dummies. So if you want to raid with one go ahead - but be prepaired to put in effort to get good at it.

Lyrik

I have been reading the various forums and working to understand Guardian DPS. This post presents what I have worked out so far. It’s a work in progress - please feel free to add to/comment on what is here.

 

Vigilance is primarily a single target skill tree that puts out the best damage in long fights where you get to stay on target. We do decent instant attacks backed up by mid-range bleeds. On boss fights in raids it is possible to keep bleeds up and maximise your crits. Against trash both our single target and aoe damage are moderate so commonly we have big changes in dps over a raid.

 

Build:

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Guardian#20-7kddjc82k3-2k This is the build I have been using as Vigilance spec Guardian dps since the 1.3 patch came out. The following remarks all apply to this build in which all the bleeds and the crit procs for Blade Storm and Dispatch are chosen. This build also maximises focus returns from using Sunder this is vital.

 

Skill Priority:

 

Master Strike (MS) ~20% - 30% (no focus cost). Because MS sometimes refreshes its cool down when you use plasma brand and overhead slash you can do quite a lot of damage with it if you always use it when its ready - you can further increase this by putting 2 more skill points into it from the focus tree. However you cannot keep all 3 bleeds up if you use MS every time it cools down.

 

Best dps is generated by using masterstrike when it’s ready and using plasma brand and overhead slash to proc it. When it doesn’t proc use blade storm.

 

Guardians have 3 abilities that have a bleed associated with them. The bleeds account for ~20% of your total damage if you keep them up as much as possible.

 

Plasma Brand (PB) produces ~10% - 15% of total damage + procs a bleed 4 times over 12 sec. (400 per tick)

Blade Storm (BS) produces ~10% - 15% of you total damage + procs a bleed 6 times in 6 seconds (80 per tick)

Overhand Slash (OS) produces ~15% of your total damage + procs a bleed 6 times in 6 seconds (90 per tick)

Each tick can crit.

 

These abilities all have a 9 second cool down so ideal use means the 6 second bleeds are up 6 out of every 10.5 seconds also it means using them in the same order throughout the fight and using them as a priority increases bleed up-time.

 

Sundering strike ~10% of total damage. Sundering strike is the primary way that you generate focus and for this reason a typical priority is: Sunder PB OS Sunder (MS / BS)

MS is used if it procs otherwise BS which will crit because you have used PB or OS first).

 

Force Sweep and Cyclone are our aoe abilities. In this build force sweep has no focus cost and a 12 second cooldown. If it is used every time it is up it will produce ~10% of your dps on the single target. In a single target fight the only reason to use it is because everything else is on cooldown. I use Force Sweep and Cyclone together so that in an aoe situation I use them both and don’t use cyclone more than once every 12 seconds. (Basically cyclone costs focus and does crap damage so it’s a waste of time however if you gona aoe might as well maximise your aoe for that 3 second period).

 

When dispatch is up it provides the best DPS and because it has a 60% extra crit chance when you use Plasma Brand or Overhead Strike first, the best rotation during dispatch is Sunder, OS, Dispatch, Strike, Sunder, PB Dispatch, Strike....

 

On some fights it is possible to do very good dps for example on the Bombardiers in the Kephess encounter you can build focus on the trash so that you enter the Bombardier fights with a full focus bar then: PB, BS, OS, MS, Dispatch

Is a 9 second burst in which Blade storm and Dispatch will crit 98% of the time.

 

Gearing:

 

Strength + Power > Crit > Surge. Don’t get alacrity almost all our abilities are instant attacks.

 

100% accuracy means our special attacks hit 110% of the time, since boss mobs defence is 10% you will hit with specials 100% of the time. Since most of our attacks are specials after 100% accuracy we are better to stack other stats.

 

Once you get 100% accuracy > 30% crit > 75% surge stack power + strength.

 

1 point of power = .23 bonus damage

1 point of Strength = .2 bonus damage + some crit. However Guardians get Perseverance which gives us +6% strength, the sage buff gives an additional 5% on primary stat.

 

So 100 power x.23 = +23 bonus damage

while 100 strength +6+5 = 111 times .2 = 22.2 bonus damage & .72% crit.

 

Take a look at this graph about diminishing returns http://imgur.com/uA2y2

 

Currently diminishing returns kick in at 25% crit (from +crit) & 25% surge (it starts at 50% so this totals 75%).

 

The Diminishing returns do not currently affect power or strength in any major way. Crit from Strength is on a separate diminishing returns curve than crit from +crit so even after you hit 30% crit (the point at which crit from gear becomes uneconomical) you will still get the same .72% crit per 100 strength. In terms of strength or power after 30% crit - stack strength where you can but its close so go for mods with the biggest combined total.

 

In terms of what DPS guardians can put out take a look at this log http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/d6dc9b15-2e10-4b47-af3d-dd84e3548b0b/overview#d=0,f=103,b=1 it is currently giving me something to aim for. However this one is more what I experience http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/5d6b8881-635c-47b9-9eec-b033ad68e6b1/overview#d=0,f=39,b=1

A guide for PvE Guardians is definitely long overdue. And you have a good start so far.

One thing I should point out. I have seen that parse you linked many times as an example of how amazing Guardians can be, and we can no doubt be competitive, but a good chunk of that damage came from aoeing mouse droids. Just something to keep in mind.

Haha, here may be an example as to why we should probably take situations into consideration when looking at parses...

Edit:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/e2147a93-1c2e-4999-a09e-fbdd2c1600ce/overview#d=0,f=5,b=1

Haha, here may be an example as to why we should probably take situations into consideration when looking at parses...

 

 

Edit:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/e2147a93-1c2e-4999-a09e-fbdd2c1600ce/overview#d=0,f=5,b=1

LOL yeah not quite in the same ball park since fabricator gets a big fire de-buff

I was looking at your parse to get ideas of what other guardian dps do, and decide what looks best from a dps stand point. (Just so you know, since you are writing a guide, I will be picking at things, so we can all get the best sense as to what works best, and I am looking forward to getting better insight myself.)

Mine: 1660 dps (comparatively low aoe) - I did die about 15 seconds before the kill, which is why they have attempt 1 and attempt 2. The time period of out fights were only a couple seconds apart.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/e2147a93-1c2e-4999-a09e-fbdd2c1600ce/player/1#d=0,f=11,b=1

Yours: 1498 dps

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/5d6b8881-635c-47b9-9eec-b033ad68e6b1/player/7#d=0,f=39,b=1

What was very interesting to me was what contributed most to our damage. OS doing more than MS was very surprising to see. It did make a bit more sense when I saw that PB was not being used as much as OS, so less chance for a proc. I'm guessing that energy management is the issue that makes you not use PB?

The way I combat the energy issue I used to have was to take full use of momentum

My spec (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/guardian#22-8iddjc82k3-1k)

Pretty much whenever I have an opportunity, I leap, using either BS or Saber throw while getting to the 10 m range. By the time the global is up I am ready to leap back in. When I say opportunity, I mean when everything else in on cd, or my energy is too low.

Just some food for thought.

Hey Zetsuma I have removed the parsed links from my original post. I intended them to be inspirational rather than demonstration of the stuff I describe. I am not sure of the exact methods the guys in those parse have used so I can’t discuss them in detail. I like your idea of posting your parsed info and the methods you use and creating discussion. Next time I fight KP I will take a parse and post it here. It would be cool if others did too.

I wrote the thing to encourage discussion of methods.

I agree with you when you say what is most interesting is what contributes to the damage output. using the methods described i find top is Master strike with 20-30% depending how often it procs, second is burning (from bleeds with 15-20%) then Overhand Strike Bladestorm are normally above Plasma Brand simply because the parse separates out the bleed damage from the initial hit and both OS & BS do more initial damage.

I don’t find I have focus issues I do use PB before OS but I use them at the same time as describe in the post, this means I get 30% chance to proc a MS twice in a row and get those bleeds going. I keep focus going by using Sunder rather than running out and creating time away from target and for this reason I don’t spec Momentum. It’s true that if you have enough focus you can have MS PB OS and BS all on cool down. I think this is non-optimal and putting sunder in between MS and PB then in again between OS and BS or MS is better. the damage from sunder isn’t bad, it keeps the armour debuff up and generates focus meaning we can stay on target as close to 100% as possible. I do think the 4 piece set bonus is great and I have had it for a long time, if Sunder also on cool down I fire off a Saber Throw this generates focus does good damage and keeps the armour debuff up.

Lyrik

Ah, my mistake. Just didn't understand how you used OS 27 times, compared to using PB only 19 times, especially when PB ends up doing more damage (including bleeds).

---------

The rotation you posted seems to be fairly common --Sunder PB OS Sunder (MS / BS)-- but utilizing the leap you are essentially gaining 6 focus as opposed to the 3 from SS, and you can use harder hitting moves, BS, instead of SS. That said, I still need to make sure that the debuff stays up. As to having time away from the target, there is none. BS / Saber Throw have a longer range than the other moves, and can be used while running out. There is absolutely no downtime.

Yes the guide I made is based on researching what other people are doing as well as my own experinece. So a lot of it has been gathered from about the place - i have really only put the information in one place, first play testing it. I have just started testing a slight chage to the priority i suggest which goes Sunder OS, BS, Sunder (MS / PB) Sunder. I think this may be slighly superior because the PB bleed has a 12 second cool down and BS always crits.

The thing regarding momentum is that the issue is not a focus issue its a cool down issue. OS, BS & PB all have 9 second cool downs and OS & BS have 6 second bleed duration. So the best dps is generated by keeping those bleeds up by using those abilities every 9 sec. there is enough focus to do this if you use sunder which also puts out OK damage. There no need to run out and leap for the extra focus, this uses 2 skill points you could better use somewhere else and involves at least 3 but probably 4 global cools downs meaning you cannot do this and maximise your bleed up time. If there where focus issues i would appriciate your elegant solution which also takes some skill to excute efficently.

Yes the guide I made is based on researching what other people are doing as well as my own experinece. So a lot of it has been gathered from about the place - i have really only put the information in one place, first play testing it. I have just started testing a slight chage to the priority i suggest which goes Sunder OS, BS, Sunder (MS / PB) Sunder. I think this may be slighly superior because the PB bleed has a 12 second cool down and BS always crits.

 

The thing regarding momentum is that the issue is not a focus issue its a cool down issue. OS, BS & PB all have 9 second cool downs and OS & BS have 6 second bleed duration. So the best dps is generated by keeping those bleeds up by using those abilities every 9 sec. there is enough focus to do this if you use sunder which also puts out OK damage. There no need to run out and leap for the extra focus, this uses 2 skill points you could better use somewhere else and involves at least 3 but probably 4 global cools downs meaning you cannot do this and maximise your bleed up time. If there where focus issues i would appriciate your elegant solution which also takes some skill to excute efficently.

I do agree on principal but there is some fights where it is useful (Toth and Zorn do come to mind, so does the Fabricator Droid and the Annihilator Droid, Soa, Bonethrasher and Foreman Crusher)

The inherent 20% damage reduction from Momentum is also extremely nice IMHO, but it is a bit of a PVP talent more than a PVE talent, just like Unremitting.

**Edit: BTW, the whole guide is very well written. I approve =) Its good to see someone besids myself try to write these things!

yea i agree there are fights where you have to leap back in. also there are fights where it makes sense to build focus and hit your big damage abilities one after the other to create a burst. The bombadears on Kephess come to mind and being able to generate a lot of focus quickly is necessary for that.

Thx mate

original post updated

Lyrik

So I went ahead and tried the rotation you recommended, and the dps did look higher than getting the leap as often as possible. I yield, on that point

I still think momentum is a worthwhile talent, though. You don't really need commanding awe in a raid setting imo, and swelling winds is probably not all that great either.

I really wish when you respec, they would give you an hour or so before you were tied down to it... I really do want to try the different variations. Unfortunately I raid in vigilance, pvp in focus and hybrid. I reach that 50k way too fast...

This has been pretty helpful so far.

Pretty fair guide but just a few questions.

-Why have blade storm so high up your priority list? costs alot of force and its bleed is the weakest of all 3.

-Force sweep isn't part of your basic rotation? Its free and is good for GCD filling while waiting for something else to come off CD.

-Same goes for Force push,Saber throw except the generate alot of focus .

-Bunny hopping. I do this a fair bit with open GCD's. G Leap one person (healer preferably) then F leap straight back in.

So I went ahead and tried the rotation you recommended, and the dps did look higher than getting the leap as often as possible. I yield, on that point

 

I still think momentum is a worthwhile talent, though. You don't really need commanding awe in a raid setting imo, and swelling winds is probably not all that great either.

 

I really wish when you respec, they would give you an hour or so before you were tied down to it... I really do want to try the different variations. Unfortunately I raid in vigilance, pvp in focus and hybrid. I reach that 50k way too fast...

 

This has been pretty helpful so far.

So you dont want the extra 15% DR when FD is active? thats a very nice buff when there is raid damage going out, which happens a lot.

i personally run a 4/32/5 spec which i love for its PVP/PVE balance.

As far as bunny leaping. not useful at all. downtime for DPS is not a good thing. You should be swimming in so much focus that a free BS isnt important. Then again, i dont use the rotation listed here.

Pretty fair guide but just a few questions.

-Why have blade storm so high up your priority list? costs alot of force and its bleed is the weakest of all 3.

-Force sweep isn't part of your basic rotation? Its free and is good for GCD filling while waiting for something else to come off CD.

-Same goes for Force push,Saber throw except the generate alot of focus .

-Bunny hopping. I do this a fair bit with open GCD's. G Leap one person (healer preferably) then F leap straight back in.

Hi there interesting questions. At this point people are developing all kinds of ways to play and there probably is not wide consensus about what is best. So your questions get me thinking about different possibilities, i will answer them from my point of view and see if i can provide a rational but it is as likly that i will learn something as you in the process.

Leaping out and leaping in is a good move no question. Leaping out gives a good debuff to the person you are leaping to and lowers their threat (so better your RDPS friend than the heals) and leaping back in generates good focus and gives you a 20% damage debuff and immunity, if you spec it, which i do at the moment. It also this move costs 2 (more likly 3) global cool downs so interms of producing maximum DPS, the role of a raid DPS class, you have to look at those 2 global cooldowns and consider what else you might do with them. Those two gcds dont generate any DPS if you use them that way, so for this reason the move you describe strikes me as situational. I can think of some fights where avoiding aoe damage makes leaping out a great option, it saves the healers from working hard and on the return in generate focus however if you do not need to get out for some reason you are compromising your DPS to do it, as i have said previously there are more time efficent ways of generating focus and I don't find focus generation the main restriction to DPS so its not a problem i am trying to solve.

Force Push noramlly pisses people off in raids - its a good pvp or solo tactic.

Saber throw is great especially with the 4 peace set bonus its better than sunder for generating DPS and Focus. when it pops use it in preference to sunder if you have the 4 peace bonus.

Force sweep is free, however it is not high damage like MS and it generates just 1 focus unlike sunder. I dont find i ever have everything on cool down so i dont use it unless i want to aoe. if you think about the 3 main abilities that generate bleeds PB OS & BS they all have 9 second cooldowns so use them and MS when they pop, use abilities that generate focus in between so you can use the big abilities when they come off cool down. your organising your moves around maximising the use of your big damage abilities in reagrds to time and focus there are no fillers.

Regarding Blade Storm: many people use the priority SUNDER - PB - OS SUNDER (MS / BS) SUNDER - STRIKE PB etc. Hitting MS if it procs and using BS if it dosent. This is very good i used it for a long time no question it works well it creates 2x30% chances to proc MS and if you dont proc MS you get a BS that crits - your bleeds are up a lot.

I have been trialing SUNDER - OS - BS SUNDER (MS / PB) SUNDER - STRIKE OS. I think this is a little better for a couple of reasons. BS and OS have 6 second bleeds and PB has a 12 second bleed so you dont need to use PB so often. PB hits for about half the initial damage that BS does (1000 or 2000 with crit vs 3000k every time); PB has a 12 second bleed so using it again before your 12 seconds are up is sub optimal because of the poor initial damage. If MS does not proc when you hit OS you are going to hit PB anyway so nothing lost re MS or using BS first; however if you hit PB and MS procs you can go straght to it and avoid the extra sunder and a strike this saves a gcd or two from time to time. So there are various advantages. In my dummy tests it is better but not by a huge amount - best thing is to try different ways and test them yourself.

BS and OS are both 4 focus, PB is 5 so actually the most expensive ability has the major limitations to work around re length of bleed and poor initial damage - if you let the bleed go for 12 seconds then it produces the most DPS (and the best sort of DPS i.e. passive DPS that happens while you do other stuff) but if you clip it short using it again before 12 sec are up then its not close to OS or BS in DPS output.

Lyrik

If you are using Shien stance, Force Sweep is a focus generator, because it ordinarily costs focus but with the Vigilence skill tree you can make Force Sweep a free skill, we still get the focus refund, which makes it a focus generator.

The primary issue with using Force Sweep is the high potential of disrupting ccs, it is generally a good idea to not get into the habit of using Force Sweep at every opportunity, cause while it is useful in some fights, you can get your entire party killed in other situations.

Cyclone slash is good at dealing with a swarm of trash monsters, but not all that useful in a boss fight.

People use bladestorm a lot because of the near guarentee critical after Overhead slash and Plasmabrand, and there are some critters that take next to no damage from Overhead that get pounded into the ground with plasmabrand and blade storm.

If you are using Shien stance, Force Sweep is a focus generator, because it ordinarily costs focus but with the Vigilence skill tree you can make Force Sweep a free skill, we still get the focus refund, which makes it a focus generator.

Try using in on fleet when you have no focus. You will find that it dose not give you any focus.

Lyrik

Try using in on fleet when you have no focus. You will find that it dose not give you any focus.

 

Lyrik

Are you in shien stance?

Are you in shien stance?

Lol thx v much. i do my dailies in tank stance. your right in shien stance it produces 1 focus - so its not completely useless just mostly useles .

Cool, I had not noticed that Smash is a focus generator.

Is it universally agreed to get the 4-piece bonus for reduced minimum range on Saber Throw, or do some people pick up the 2-piece bonus for reduced cost on the execute?

 

 

 

 

Regarding Blade Storm: many people use the priority SUNDER - PB - OS SUNDER (MS / BS) SUNDER - STRIKE PB etc. Hitting MS if it procs and using BS if it dosent. This is very good i used it for a long time no question it works well it creates 2x30% chances to proc MS and if you dont proc MS you get a BS that crits - your bleeds are up a lot.

 

I have been trialing SUNDER - OS - BS SUNDER (MS / PB) SUNDER - STRIKE OS. I think this is a little better for a couple of reasons. BS and OS have 6 second bleeds and PB has a 12 second bleed so you dont need to use PB so often. PB hits for about half the initial damage that BS does (1000 or 2000 with crit vs 3000k every time); PB has a 12 second bleed so using it again before your 12 seconds are up is sub optimal because of the poor initial damage. If MS does not proc when you hit OS you are going to hit PB anyway so nothing lost re MS or using BS first; however if you hit PB and MS procs you can go straght to it and avoid the extra sunder and a strike this saves a gcd or two from time to time. So there are various advantages. In my dummy tests it is better but not by a huge amount - best thing is to try different ways and test them yourself.

 

BS and OS are both 4 focus, PB is 5 so actually the most expensive ability has the major limitations to work around re length of bleed and poor initial damage - if you let the bleed go for 12 seconds then it produces the most DPS (and the best sort of DPS i.e. passive DPS that happens while you do other stuff) but if you clip it short using it again before 12 sec are up then its not close to OS or BS in DPS output.

 

Lyrik

i have noticed that i do more dps with that rotation. expect i do master strike then sunder if it proc's the the only issues i find if i don't get a good amount of MS proc's in the begging i find my self having a tad rage issues tho it's most likely my fault since i put looks > 4 set since i'm a jugg and i hate how the set looks

i have noticed that i do more dps with that rotation. expect i do master strike then sunder if it proc's the the only issues i find if i don't get a good amount of MS proc's in the begging i find my self having a tad rage issues tho it's most likely my fault since i put looks > 4 set since i'm a jugg and i hate how the set looks

Yeah this is a raid boss rotation no question. the first 10 seconds will be lower DPS than if you hit PB immedialty. if I have a full focus bar when I enter a fight I will hit MS PB then rotation 2. Or even PB BS OS MS Dispatch which is the top DPS burst for a short fight (bombads on kephess).

The thing with procing MS is that we get a 30% chance each time we use PB or OS. So even on a long fight you can be unlucky and not proc MS much - this is the nature ofthe beast unfortunitly using PB and OS one after the other does not increase this 30% per use chance.

Of course sometimes we get lucky and proc MS each time we hit OS now with the rotation i am suggesting you are going to find yourself wanting to insert as PB so you get that bleed up....

Lyrik