Hey all,

I've just finished getting a set of full 78's with low Endurance. I'm using 2 augements (TY Evo), 1 implant, and 3 enhancements for the 100.07% accuracy. I'm around 74.8x surge b/c of the extra surge enhancement. I think my power is 1345. My crit (buffed/stim) is sitting at 27.33% (398ish rating).

I read somewhere that you start hitting the Crit dimiinishing return pretty heavy around 300 rating. Not that it's always correct but Dulfy's guide recommends between 250 and 450, saying more then 250 will only give a marginal gain if any.

Instead of running a ton of parses I'm looking to see what other's have as their ideal crit %.

TL : DR - What crit % are you using/shooting for as deception?

it depends by gear and surge rating btw for full bis 78 I suggest 440+ (max 500)

there must be always a balanced ratio between power/crit and it's affected by our crit's multiplier.

cya!

Currently running 629. When i upgrade my earpiece thatll be 530.

I wouldn't recommend any lower tbh.

Your crit damage makes up for more than your noncrit damage.

In a really good run it can even almost double it.

Crit is véry valuabke for deception.

Does only Crit rating and Stats suffers from DR to increase crit %?

Or rather is bonus Crit from talents play into DR?

Reason:

I run with a Madness Sorc, because our group likes to do things the hard way.... yes we even have a PT DPS we bring on occasion *shrug... It seems Madness sorc's have the same kind of problem we do except they have a 3% total crit increase. Trying to find out what they need for crit

You really don't want more than 350 crit for Infiltration. Around 300 is best. Do the math using the tooltips for your abilities by switching out power and crit to find average damage. People using 500+ like to get lucky parses on the dummy, but the math isn't there.

I consistently Parse 3.4k on the dummy. With spikes to 3550+. +-44 APM

Math isn't there? Practise is.

You really don't want more than 350 crit for Infiltration. Around 300 is best. Do the math using the tooltips for your abilities by switching out power and crit to find average damage. People using 500+ like to get lucky parses on the dummy, but the math isn't there.

Doing the math takes a lot more than that. You need to take into account boss armor on your non-internal/elemental hits, figure out your actual average damage (since tool tips don't take into account criticals, just base damage) and then you need to figure out what abilities what percent of your damage, if you really want to maximize your damage. You have a 50% surge bonus to Shock and Discharge, and a 30% bonus to Maul (already your hardest hitting ability). Every crit you score drastically raises your damage, and it takes a larger amount of power to make up for that in Deception when compared to other specs.

If you really want to get the math right, use the game's formulas for each ability's damage, and plug your own stats into the formulas. Then figure out what % of damage each ability is, multiply through, and then see what happens when you change your stats: does your overall dps go up or down?

using simulator from full 69 to full 81 we have a increasing crit rating because surge rating is higher too.

Infiltration NEEDS to crit. math or not math, best parsers have high crit rating.

PS: you try to have lucky with low crit rating, not with high.

Doing the math takes a lot more than that. You need to take into account boss armor on your non-internal/elemental hits, figure out your actual average damage (since tool tips don't take into account criticals, just base damage) and then you need to figure out what abilities what percent of your damage, if you really want to maximize your damage. You have a 50% surge bonus to Shock and Discharge, and a 30% bonus to Maul (already your hardest hitting ability). Every crit you score drastically raises your damage, and it takes a larger amount of power to make up for that in Deception when compared to other specs.

 

If you really want to get the math right, use the game's formulas for each ability's damage, and plug your own stats into the formulas. Then figure out what % of damage each ability is, multiply through, and then see what happens when you change your stats: does your overall dps go up or down?

Sorry I should have been more clear... of course I do all of this. I calculate my average damage of each ability using crit % of each ability, surge with skill tree bonuses, and the % contribution of each ability to total damage. So as we know, FB, SS, Project, and CS each do roughly 18% - 22% of your total damage, respectively (using a 1M dummy parse). FB and Project benefit from high crit... no doubt, it prob caps at about 400 rating. However, SS and CS both benefit from having under 300 crit rating. Shadow Technique does 11-12% total output, and breaks even at about 300-350 crit rating. Spinning Strike does about 7% of our total output, and benefits most from 0 crit (all power).

So if we estimate 400 crit is best for FB and Project, 200 for CS and SS, 300 for Shadow Technique, and 0 for Spinning Strike... we land at about 276 crit rating for optimal damage output.

Of course, these figures don't account for the use of Force Potency. During a 1M dummy parse, I use FP about 6 times. Now, it is important to remember that built-in auto-cirts devalue crit rating, while surge bonuses enhance the value crit rating. FP gives us about 12 near-auto crits on FB and Project (ok maybe 10 assuming Shadow Technique and Project chunks eat 1 each during the parse). Point is, FP further devalues the need for crit by giving 10 or so auto crits to FB and Project during the course of a 1M dummy parse where we use these abilities for a combined tally of around 90 times.

I do, however, account for Force Synergy up time of near 100%. This isn't accurate, I think it is closer to 90-95%? Regardless, the results would be similar.

I consistently Parse 3.4k on the dummy. With spikes to 3550+. +-44 APM

 

Math isn't there? Practise is.

Your parses mean absolutely nothing besides the fact that you know your rotation. The difference in average ability damage is so close, you would have to parse hundreds of times to get any real useful data from them. For example, in my current set up, CS hits on average for 2,195.41 damage with 358 crit rating (this includes set bonus crit chance increase as well as Force Synergy bonus). With a 296 rating, CS hits for 2,202.57 damage. The other abilities have similar differences. As you can see, it would take a while to produce significant parse data proving 296 crit rating is better than 358 rating. However... the math is there, practice or not.

Sorry I should have been more clear... of course I do all of this. I calculate my average damage of each ability using crit % of each ability, surge with skill tree bonuses, and the % contribution of each ability to total damage. So as we know, FB, SS, Project, and CS each do roughly 18% - 22% of your total damage, respectively (using a 1M dummy parse). FB and Project benefit from high crit... no doubt, it prob caps at about 400 rating. However, SS and CS both benefit from having under 300 crit rating. Shadow Technique does 11-12% total output, and breaks even at about 300-350 crit rating. Spinning Strike does about 7% of our total output, and benefits most from 0 crit (all power).

 

So if we estimate 400 crit is best for FB and Project, 200 for CS and SS, 300 for Shadow Technique, and 0 for Spinning Strike... we land at about 276 crit rating for optimal damage output.

 

Of course, these figures don't account for the use of Force Potency. During a 1M dummy parse, I use FP about 6 times. Now, it is important to remember that built-in auto-cirts devalue crit rating, while surge bonuses enhance the value crit rating. FP gives us about 12 near-auto crits on FB and Project (ok maybe 10 assuming Shadow Technique and Project chunks eat 1 each during the parse). Point is, FP further devalues the need for crit by giving 10 or so auto crits to FB and Project during the course of a 1M dummy parse where we use these abilities for a combined tally of around 90 times.

 

I do, however, account for Force Synergy up time of near 100%. This isn't accurate, I think it is closer to 90-95%? Regardless, the results would be similar.

no wait, you can't calculate in this way, is too much inaccurate. (average of average...you know)

Btw low crit rating need more lucky if u want to deal good dps.

I consistently Parse 3.4k on the dummy. With spikes to 3550+. +-44 APM

 

Math isn't there? Practise is.

lolwut?

you used some pretty vague terminology there, because i'm pretty sure the word consistently and infiltration dont mix ;P but getting serious, can you tell me you can parse 3.4k on, say, 10 dummies in a row? if not i think 'consistently' isn't the right term.

hell, i'd be surprised if it was even possible to have such consistency with infiltration for five straight parses, let alone 10. in all of my parsing with this spec, i've never seen the spec preform on any level of real consistency. i have to parse at least 3-5 times before i get a parse that is even in the 3.4 range, let alone one that gets close to my previous best, that takes days minimum for me.

maybe its just me? who knows, i couldn't say. all i know is i've done my fair share of practice and the consistency has never been satisfactory in my eyes.

(however my recent experiences make me a bit biased, since i only just got a working computer again and have lost some of whatever edge i had ^.^)

lolwut?

 

you used some pretty vague terminology there, because i'm pretty sure the word consistently and infiltration dont mix ;P but getting serious, can you tell me you can parse 3.4k on, say, 10 dummies in a row? if not i think 'consistently' isn't the right term.

 

hell, i'd be surprised if it was even possible to have such consistency with infiltration for five straight parses, let alone 10. in all of my parsing with this spec, i've never seen the spec preform on any level of real consistency. i have to parse at least 3-5 times before i get a parse that is even in the 3.4 range, let alone one that gets close to my previous best, that takes days minimum for me.

 

maybe its just me? who knows, i couldn't say. all i know is i've done my fair share of practice and the consistency has never been satisfactory in my eyes.

 

(however my recent experiences make me a bit biased, since i only just got a working computer again and have lost some of whatever edge i had ^.^)

Na, RNG plays too much of a factor there. But my average parse is definitely over 3.4k.

Na, RNG plays too much of a factor there. But my average parse is definitely over 3.4k.

Yea. Gotta love that RNG. I raised crit rating to 600. Pulled 5 parses in a row between 3330-3380.

I was bit tired and made mistakes here and there but that RNG.

On one parse I pulled pretty sick opener, 30sec time dps was over 4,3k and 1min time dps was still very near 3,7k. Parse ended around 3350. Better, 3380 parse had very poor opener, nothing critted and still got better overall dps.

Still my best parse, 3448 is done with 462 crit rating.

Yea. Gotta love that RNG. I raised crit rating to 600. Pulled 5 parses in a row between 3330-3380.

I was bit tired and made mistakes here and there but that RNG.

On one parse I pulled pretty sick opener, 30sec time dps was over 4,3k and 1min time dps was still very near 3,7k. Parse ended around 3350. Better, 3380 parse had very poor opener, nothing critted and still got better overall dps.

 

Still my best parse, 3448 is done with 462 crit rating.

My best one was 3550 with 629 crit

My best upload is 3500. Done with 2 pvp relics and 99.3% accuracy.

http://www.torparse.com/a/588678/1/0/Damage+Dealt

My best one was 3550 with 629 crit

 

My best upload is 3500. Done with 2 pvp relics and 99.3% accuracy.

http://www.torparse.com/a/588678/1/0/Damage+Dealt

http://www.torparse.com/a/590657/2/0/Damage+Dealt

70% crit on assassinate

http://www.torparse.com/a/590657/2/0/Damage+Dealt

 

70% crit on assassinate

Out of 10 strikes that really isn't much to look up for. It happens.

You get a chance, with a sample size of 10 it can go any way really.. even no crits at all

Out of 10 strikes that really isn't much to look up for. It happens.

 

You get a chance, with a sample size of 10 it can go any way really.. even no crits at all

Like it happens when u lose recklessness stacks with 90% crit change. It happens too.

it depends which dmg rolls crit. You can have low crit% chance parses wih higher dps than high crit% one.

true story bro

Like it happens when u lose recklessness stacks with 90% crit change. It happens too.

Never seen that actually happen.

The bonus to surge from talents to Shock/Project, FB/Discharge and to a smaller extent Maul/SS basically means that 1 extra Crit per minute more then makes up the dmg. This is especially true in once switching to 2 accuracy augments to add an extra power/surge enhancement. Shock/Project and FB/Discharge are doing 224.85% damage, Maul 204.85%.

Napkin math: if FB/Discharge hits for 3000 Dmg normally then with the bonus surge it will crit for ~7,500, a difference of ~3,500. This means that for 1 extra crit you gain ~51 dps. This is using a smaller hit then you should see on Discharge/FB to so how much gain 1 extra crit hit can give compared to how much power.

I will agree that my parses have a greater gap between my high parses and my low parses, but in truth my low parses aren't noticeably behind when I was only using 400 crit rating.

Civilie you also said SS/Maul uses gains less from crit I'm curious why.

The bonus to surge from talents to Shock/Project, FB/Discharge and to a smaller extent Maul/SS basically means that 1 extra Crit per minute more then makes up the dmg. This is especially true in once switching to 2 accuracy augments to add an extra power/surge enhancement. Shock/Project and FB/Discharge are doing 224.85% damage, Maul 204.85%.

 

Napkin math: if FB/Discharge hits for 3000 Dmg normally then with the bonus surge it will crit for ~7,500, a difference of ~3,500. This means that for 1 extra crit you gain ~51 dps. This is using a smaller hit then you should see on Discharge/FB to so how much gain 1 extra crit hit can give compared to how much power.

 

I will agree that my parses have a greater gap between my high parses and my low parses, but in truth my low parses aren't noticeably behind when I was only using 400 crit rating.

 

Civilie you also said SS/Maul uses gains less from crit I'm curious why.

Ok so here is the math I'm using, in this case Shadow Strike:

4269 (lower end of tooltip damage rating with 358 crit) x 2.0296 (surge rating of 470, + 30% from proc) = 8664.36 dmg

8664.36 x .3577 (crit rating of 358 + 9% crit from Force Synergy talent bonus active) = 3,099.24

4269 x .6432 (this is your chance of no crit) = 2741.98

3,099.24 + 2,741.98 = 5,841.22 (my average SS hit with 358 crit rating)

4,306 (lower end of tooltip damage rating with 296 crit) x 2.0296 = 8,739.46

8,739.46 x .3475 (crit rating of 296 + 9% from Force Synergy) = 3,036.96

4,306 x .6525 = 2,809.67

3,036.96 + 2,809.67 = 5,846.63 (avg SS hit with 296 crit rating)