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Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Progression Double-Monetized in 6.0?

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
08.14.2019 , 07:42 AM | #121
Quote: Originally Posted by FlatTax View Post
You only need to read my previous post to have your question answered.
Except that, again, you're wrong, and you're wrong on levels that mean you're intentionally posting misinformation.

P2W: Items required for end game can only be obtained from the Cash Shop of the specific game, or by purchasing them from players that did so.

Where in any of the information that we have does this condition exist? Again; I am not changing the accepted definition to fit your "but everything should be free since I pay a sub" narrative. It's weak, and your justifications are also weak. Any time you have to change the definition of words or terms to fit your narrative, there's something wrong with your narrative. The "loot boxes" in question here cannot be directly purchased from the CS, no matter how many times you claim they can be, directly, or indirectly. They cannot be purchased from the CS no matter how many times you post what you pay for a sub every year. XP boosts are routinely given away through the game, for free, for simply playing the game, so their availability on the CS is pointless.

28 toons on one server, and all of them have stacks of bound xp boosts, meaning that they were rewarded for playing the game, not from CS purchases which are bound for a couple of days, and can then be sold on the GTN, if one desires to do so, or simply transferred to a different toon on one's legacy. What's even funnier, from my perspective, is that you can get these w/out even carrying a sub, so you don't have to pay anything at all to get them. So much for P2W, at least in so far as this is concerned.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

lightSaberAddiCt's Avatar


lightSaberAddiCt
08.14.2019 , 10:41 AM | #122
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Except that, again, you're wrong, and you're wrong on levels that mean you're intentionally posting misinformation.

P2W: Items required for end game can only be obtained from the Cash Shop of the specific game, or by purchasing them from players that did so.

Where in any of the information that we have does this condition exist? Again; I am not changing the accepted definition to fit your "but everything should be free since I pay a sub" narrative. It's weak, and your justifications are also weak. Any time you have to change the definition of words or terms to fit your narrative, there's something wrong with your narrative. The "loot boxes" in question here cannot be directly purchased from the CS, no matter how many times you claim they can be, directly, or indirectly. They cannot be purchased from the CS no matter how many times you post what you pay for a sub every year. XP boosts are routinely given away through the game, for free, for simply playing the game, so their availability on the CS is pointless.

28 toons on one server, and all of them have stacks of bound xp boosts, meaning that they were rewarded for playing the game, not from CS purchases which are bound for a couple of days, and can then be sold on the GTN, if one desires to do so, or simply transferred to a different toon on one's legacy. What's even funnier, from my perspective, is that you can get these w/out even carrying a sub, so you don't have to pay anything at all to get them. So much for P2W, at least in so far as this is concerned.
Dude why did you bring this back to the first page? Just let it die and go back to the 2nd or 3rd page. All you are doing is giving him the exposure he wants. Let it go. Honestly, it is time the mods do their freaking jobs and either lock this thread, or put it into the suggestions folder or off topic. I know this is the last time I am responding to it, help us out here.l
Just Click It for Free Stuff I need the CC
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phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
08.14.2019 , 10:48 AM | #123
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
The "loot boxes" in question here cannot be directly purchased from the CS, no matter how many times you claim they can be, directly, or indirectly. They cannot be purchased from the CS no matter how many times you post what you pay for a sub every year.
I think this is the important distinction. FlatTax is correct that a person who stacks both Experience Point boosts and Renown boosts will earn renown crates faster than someone who does not utilize both, or consumes all their free Experience boosts.

Where FlatTax is not correct is in the presumption that a player earning renown crates will gear faster. That is entirely random, and since we don't know the extent of all the sources of amplifiers yet, we really can't conclude that renown crates will be the fastest or even a decently efficient way to acquire these. Whatever the "Charles Points" or "Chux Bux" are going to be will factor in heavily.

RNG-protection, as it has been presented in the live streams, seems to apply to gear, and not amplifiers.

We also know that the CXP boosts you purchase now with command tokens are as effective in magnitude, if not duration, as the Market ones. I doubt that Renown point boosts bought via in game currency are going away, even if the Command Tokens are. I haven't needed a Market CXP boost in well over a year, I could probably buy at least 30 if not 40 boosts right now with all the Command Tokens I have saved up, which should last me well into 6.0.

All that being said, I think FlatTax's argument that "progression is double monetized" is a sensational headline, but not completely without merit. We don't know exactly how much the ratio of Renown XP to Experience Points will be, which of course could lessen the impact of an XP boost (if you only get one renown point for every 1000 xp, for example, then a 15% xp boost won't matter except for big mission turn-ins.) It's something to consider, sure, but its not the clear pay-to-win outcome that FlatTax is claiming.
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FlatTax's Avatar


FlatTax
08.14.2019 , 04:00 PM | #124
Quote: Originally Posted by robertthebard View Post
Except that, again, you're wrong, and you're wrong on levels that mean you're intentionally posting misinformation.

P2W: Items required for end game can only be obtained from the Cash Shop of the specific game, or by purchasing them from players that did so.

Where in any of the information that we have does this condition exist? Again; I am not changing the accepted definition to fit your "but everything should be free since I pay a sub" narrative. It's weak, and your justifications are also weak. Any time you have to change the definition of words or terms to fit your narrative, there's something wrong with your narrative. The "loot boxes" in question here cannot be directly purchased from the CS, no matter how many times you claim they can be, directly, or indirectly. They cannot be purchased from the CS no matter how many times you post what you pay for a sub every year. XP boosts are routinely given away through the game, for free, for simply playing the game, so their availability on the CS is pointless.

28 toons on one server, and all of them have stacks of bound xp boosts, meaning that they were rewarded for playing the game, not from CS purchases which are bound for a couple of days, and can then be sold on the GTN, if one desires to do so, or simply transferred to a different toon on one's legacy. What's even funnier, from my perspective, is that you can get these w/out even carrying a sub, so you don't have to pay anything at all to get them. So much for P2W, at least in so far as this is concerned.
I'm defining pay-to-win correctly.

Monetized 'boosts' that feed loot drops absolutely equate to purchasing gear via gambling products.
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Seven hours of paying to win in SWTOR can double a subscriber's monthly cost. Detailed figures available on request.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
08.15.2019 , 04:50 AM | #125
Quote: Originally Posted by lightSaberAddiCt View Post
Dude why did you bring this back to the first page? Just let it die and go back to the 2nd or 3rd page. All you are doing is giving him the exposure he wants. Let it go. Honestly, it is time the mods do their freaking jobs and either lock this thread, or put it into the suggestions folder or off topic. I know this is the last time I am responding to it, help us out here.l
Because I really want anyone researching this for court cases to see how ridiculous players can get with their P2W claims. This thread, for example, exists because the OP believes w/out question that everything the game comes out with, ever, should be free because the OP pays a sub. This is a similar argument to "I bought the game, so everything you make, ever, should be free".

Ironically enough, a lot of stuff is free, if you had an active sub when it released, such as KotFE/ET. All of those chapters were free if your sub was active when they released, or, even, if you pay a month of sub now, you can get all of it, barring one story. In DDO, they have similar content that is released free to VIPs, which is their sub model, but if you didn't purchase it directly, and allow your sub to lapse, you no longer have access to that content, unless you get a guest pass from someone who does, buy it, or reactivate your sub.

So while we can, in fact, point at the "greedy game companies being greedy", sometimes, it's not the game company that's at fault, but greedy players looking for a handout, such as this thread. Make no mistake, the whole premise here is "I pay a sub, and so I shouldn't have to buy anything else", peppered with some ***** envy that someone might get something a tad bit faster. Note, that's faster, not the typical P2W scenario of not at all w/out buying it directly from the CS or from someone who did.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?