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Kaggath Tournament - Felonious Empire vs Dark Imperium

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Felonious Empire vs Dark Imperium

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
08.20.2013 , 01:36 PM | #1031
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
I might have figured out a way to get this to finish on Malachor.....
*Taps feet*
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.20.2013 , 01:48 PM | #1032
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
I might have figured out a way to get this to finish on Malachor.....

I have one question though- is Vader capable of landing on Malachor? Because that is all I need.
You might wan't to take a look at post 1018 first. Sheesh, that sounds weird.

And yes, I'd assume Vader's astute piloting skills combined with his Force sensitivity and ridiculous durability would put him in good stead for landing on Malachor V safely - landing troops poses a few problems and is hit and miss in reality.

Though I here Royal Guardsmen are excellent pilots also...

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
08.20.2013 , 01:50 PM | #1033
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
You might wan't to take a look at post 1018 first. Sheesh, that sounds weird.

And yes, I'd assume Vader's astute piloting skills combined with his Force sensitivity and ridiculous durability would put him in good stead for landing on Malachor V safely - landing troops poses a few problems and is hit and miss in reality.

Though I here Royal Guardsmen are excellent pilots also...
Well Vader has made crash landings when needing to, so him piloting the ship along with all that he should be able to come out of it with minimal loses/injuries. I mean he did fly half a ship in ROTS and made a crash landing....sure as Anakin, but he is still the same person as far as piloting skill would go. Also when he had to make a crash landing with his TIE.

Its not completely out of his range.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Canino's Avatar


Canino
08.20.2013 , 02:41 PM | #1034
Sorry for the wait, I had to go out for a little.

Beni, I saw your post. However, if my tactic works, no debate will be needed. So, the strategy!

~~~

Before the battle of Raxus, Vader will assemble a strike team of himself, Kanos, Sing, RG, SG, and Magna Guard/IG lancer combat droids. Then, boarding a CR90 (or any ship really, I just picked one) will travel to Malachor. At the same time, the Raxus invasion fleet will be leaving as well.

Traya will have a vision of the invasion fleet, and will thus begin planning and gathering the forces for an invasion. However, being busy preparing, will not get a vision of the Malachor strike team. Yet.

It takes two days for both the strike team and invasion to reach their targets.

After gathering her forces, Traya (still on day after vision) receives another vision. An attack on Malachor. Knowing that attacking the strike team will resort in a crippling blow to the DI, and respecting Vader for his cunning, she allows the strike team to attempt a landing.....

~~~

This is all that I want to post. To me, it seems quite possible. Traya will know, but she has shown that if you are smart enough to out think her, or do something that she doesn't beilive you can do, she will respect you. Cronal believes that Vader is "a blunt tool" and soon, that image will be ingrained in Traya's head.

After the landing- that's what we should debate!
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
08.20.2013 , 03:03 PM | #1035
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Sorry for the wait, I had to go out for a little.

Beni, I saw your post. However, if my tactic works, no debate will be needed. So, the strategy!

~~~

Before the battle of Raxus, Vader will assemble a strike team of himself, Kanos, Sing, RG, SG, and Magna Guard/IG lancer combat droids. Then, boarding a CR90 (or any ship really, I just picked one) will travel to Malachor. At the same time, the Raxus invasion fleet will be leaving as well.

Traya will have a vision of the invasion fleet, and will thus begin planning and gathering the forces for an invasion. However, being busy preparing, will not get a vision of the Malachor strike team. Yet.

It takes two days for both the strike team and invasion to reach their targets.

After gathering her forces, Traya (still on day after vision) receives another vision. An attack on Malachor. Knowing that attacking the strike team will resort in a crippling blow to the DI, and respecting Vader for his cunning, she allows the strike team to attempt a landing.....

~~~

This is all that I want to post. To me, it seems quite possible. Traya will know, but she has shown that if you are smart enough to out think her, or do something that she doesn't beilive you can do, she will respect you. Cronal believes that Vader is "a blunt tool" and soon, that image will be ingrained in Traya's head.

After the landing- that's what we should debate!
Without Vader your fleet would be ripped to shreds, completely and utterly.

Malachor will never be completely defenceless, about 10 stealth ships A la TCW era would easily defend the planet, along with maybe 1 cruiser from MSF. Which would probably be the opening garrison.

Let's also not forget Traya and Cronal have the entire Journey to malachor to foresee the future, and Cronal has never needed Malachor to have visions, it's likely Traya wouldn't either.

Then there's the ground invasion we've already debated countless times... All this Assembling strike teams would also take time, more time for visions, sithspawn, and Tie Maulers.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

Canino's Avatar


Canino
08.20.2013 , 03:10 PM | #1036
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Without Vader your fleet would be ripped to shreds, completely and utterly.

Malachor will never be completely defenceless, about 10 stealth ships A la TCW era would easily defend the planet, along with maybe 1 cruiser from MSF. Which would probably be the opening garrison.

Let's also not forget Traya and Cronal have the entire Journey to malachor to foresee the future, and Cronal has never needed Malachor to have visions, it's likely Traya wouldn't either.

Then there's the ground invasion we've already debated countless times... All this Assembling strike teams would also take time, more time for visions, sithspawn, and Tie Maulers.
Ships cannot stay above Malachor for long times. Your ships wouldn't be able to stay. Even in the debris, your ships would be unable to stay, and in debris would lose a lot of mobility.

And I know about the Raxus failure. That is sort of the point. It acts as a distraction from the goal. But if I'm on Malachor, then it doesn't matter. From there I can find you, and kill Traya.

Um, it take the same time. Kanos, Sing and Vader are likely to be together on the same planet, and RG, SG, and the droids can all be found on Muunilist, so a day. That's it. No extra time. Nothing.

And I'm not sure if you understand visions. Even if you can call them (complete speculation) they last time, and are vague. Then you have to interpret them, and put in to motion whatever plans you have. So really, not a lot of time.
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Selenial's Avatar


Selenial
08.20.2013 , 03:23 PM | #1037
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Ships cannot stay above Malachor for long times. Your ships wouldn't be able to stay. Even in the debris, your ships would be unable to stay, and in debris would lose a lot of mobility.

And I know about the Raxus failure. That is sort of the point. It acts as a distraction from the goal. But if I'm on Malachor, then it doesn't matter. From there I can find you, and kill Traya.

Um, it take the same time. Kanos, Sing and Vader are likely to be together on the same planet, and RG, SG, and the droids can all be found on Muunilist, so a day. That's it. No extra time. Nothing.

And I'm not sure if you understand visions. Even if you can call them (complete speculation) they last time, and are vague. Then you have to interpret them, and put in to motion whatever plans you have. So really, not a lot of time.
Wrong. The Debris Field isn't affected by Malachor's Gravity Fluctuations. That's why the Debris Field remains there, it's too far out to be affected by random gravity shifts. The Debris field is perfectly safe, getting any closer however, is not.

Traya could escape, and rather easily too, Raxus would be a huge blow.

Incorrect. Forming a strike team, a Plan, probing Malachor, and of course you'd have to leave at the same time as your fleet, so that means Raxus has to be probed as well.

And I think it is you who misunderstands, they occur far faster than the events would in Normal time, and the Journey from Raxus to Malachor is enough time to have a Vision each, and Interpret it. Interpretation barely takes any time, split seconds maybe. How else was Traya able to view most of Miras life, and her death, and know her thoughts, in split seconds, and then tell the Exile them immediately after.
We all live or die as Krayt wills, Stryfe. At his word, I would cut out my own heart. Or yours.
CelÚna Mercenary Cathinka Seeliara Sage

Canino's Avatar


Canino
08.20.2013 , 03:32 PM | #1038
Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Wrong. The Debris Field isn't affected by Malachor's Gravity Fluctuations. That's why the Debris Field remains there, it's too far out to be affected by random gravity shifts. The Debris field is perfectly safe, getting any closer however, is not.
Ok, point. However, Vader could easily bring other ships. Or attack them mentally, allowing for safe passage.

Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Traya could escape, and rather easily too, Raxus would be a huge blow.
A huge blow to you? or me? I'm guessing the latter, but consider me confused. And oh, Traya won't escape. To paraphrase Beni, "She never leaves."

Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
Incorrect. Forming a strike team, a Plan, probing Malachor, and of course you'd have to leave at the same time as your fleet, so that means Raxus has to be probed as well.
Forming the team would, again, take around a day. The plan, day two, and the probes day three. And we estimated it would take five days or so to get the fleet assembled.

Quote: Originally Posted by Selenial View Post
And I think it is you who misunderstands, they occur far faster than the events would in Normal time, and the Journey from Raxus to Malachor is enough time to have a Vision each, and Interpret it. Interpretation barely takes any time, split seconds maybe. How else was Traya able to view most of Miras life, and her death, and know her thoughts, in split seconds, and then tell the Exile them immediately after.
I understand. However, again, visions are rare and uncontrollable. If the vision decides to be long, then it will be. They can do nothing about that. And we can only speculate on interpretation. She may have had the vision before, or her vision gave many details. All visions are not the same, with the most being vague. She may have been able to get more from the vision because of Malachor.

Again, this is just a scenario. It doesn't need to be done. We can always go back to debating Raxus.....
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
08.20.2013 , 03:34 PM | #1039
I think what has been lost throughout this debate is who, exactly, Traya is.

She's the Lord of Betrayal. She's a manipulator. She's a puppeteer, a woman who uses people to her own advantage to make things turn out as she wanted to.

I'd go so far as to say that full-scale war wouldn't ever happen in this Kaggath. When, exactly, has Traya EVER expressed any interest in military actions? Never. Sion and Nihlius were the warlords. Sion controlled the Sith Assassins. Nihlius had the Ravager and his navy. What did Traya do? Teach.

Obviously this situation is drastically different than what happened during the KotOR era. However, I think we basically still have the same dynamic. Cronal controls the army of Shadow Troopers. Trench controls the navy. Both are warriors, while Traya is their manipulator.

Everything Sion and Nihlius ever did benefitted Traya and her goal. The same will happen with Trench and Cronal. Any victory, any loss, any offensive or defensive, none of it will matter in the end. All that will matter is that Traya has manipulated the situation to what she wants it to be.

The real question of this debate should be: what is Traya's endgame? What does she want to happen?

Because when Traya wants something to happen, it does.

Personally, I don't think Traya would care about a giant war. Sure, the events of it might put things in motion, but she could care less about her worlds, her armies, her allies. What she cares about is the Force. She believes the Force is a conscious entity that makes things happen, a force that controls every living being and manipulates them. That would seem to imply that the only thing in this entire Kaggath she would care about is Vader.

Killing Vader? Well, I suppose, that IS the point of the Kaggath. But I think the fact that he is The Chosen One will ring true with Traya. He IS the definition of the Force's will. His entire life is forfeit to the will of the Force. He was BORN of the Force. And I think she would hate him for that.

So she would want him dead.

But think about this. When has Traya EVER NOT killed someone personally. The three Jedi masters on Dantooine. Personally. Meetra. Personally. The Exile's Jedi companions. Personally. She's very hands-on, at least when it comes to defeating her force sensitive enemies.

I do think that this will come down to a 1v1. Because that's what Traya would want. Vader might not even HAVE to fight through the Trayus Academy. She would probably let him walk on through because she wants to kill him herself. And thus defeat the will of the Force.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.20.2013 , 03:38 PM | #1040
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Sorry for the wait, I had to go out for a little.

Beni, I saw your post. However, if my tactic works, no debate will be needed. So, the strategy!
I would like them to be debated nonetheless, as regardless of Vader's actions such attacks may happen. In the end scenarios are just that, there are many different outcomes to a Kaggath.

And one key flaw in your strategy is that Vader will have no idea that Traya is on Malachor V - he will assume she is on Raxus Secundus, the capital world. Noting that he is not aware of the existence of the Trayus Academy on the planet.