Seriously we need a more unforgiving/difficult setting for the flashpoints. The "hard" versions are a snooze fest and bore me to death already.

Have the bosses drop 1 Ultimate token and no extra loot. Perhaps Arkanian but only for last boss.

 

Yes, I'm geared in Arkanian with a couple 69 and 72. Anyone who does regular OPS wears those. My guild doesn't do hardmode yet sicne we dont ahve enough geared players jsut yet.

 

Dot's need to be more unforgiving.

CC must be applied.

Enrage timers more strickt (not to idiotic strickt ofcourse)

FP's must be tuned with the idea that you must use atleast 1 or maybe 2 cc's for trashpacks.

Edited May 27, 2013 by MichelvanMeerten

Keep it out of Group Finder, for everyone's sake, and this is actually a cute idea. Sort of like WoW's "Challenge Mode" dungeons. It could also bring the "old" FPs from 50 back into play rotation at 55 with "nightmare" mechanics and commensurate rewards.

 

I mean, I really hate the new game-design vogue of "We changed 2 things! Now it's NEW AGAIN!" — but setting aside my personal irritation with this developer phone-it-in solution, the idea of making FPs that are there only for the tough crowd is kind of cute.

 

Just remember that this sort of content doesn't do much for the vast majority of players, so it needs to be added as a "perk" off to the side, not sold as a major feature.

I agree with this idea, sadly this is what I predict will happen:

 

"Wahhh! NO NEW CONTENT BIOFAIL!"

"ZOMG why do I have to keep doing the same stuff over and over, tortanic!"

"QQ QQ QQ QQ"

"I am going to complain about it being on PTS even though I'll never actually do it while it's relevant!"

etc...

I don't agree with keeping it out of GF though. I would like it that Bioware does it like WoW does it. You need to wear a minimal rating before you are able to queue for it.

And yes, making the other Flashpoints available with Nightmare mode would even be more interesting. Now we only have 4 level 55 hardmodes. That's just to little. Revampingthe other FP's to Nightmare mode (possibly even with a Hardmode version) would tripple the amount of available flashpoints.

Rift has a NITEMARE mod so to speak for its FP etc ... I know it rift, but rift has done some pretty impressive stuff even above what WoW or any MMO has done I have ever played over the years.

 

I just can't get into rift like SW . or I would go back to it .

Edited May 27, 2013 by tanktest

I don't agree with keeping it out of GF though. I would like it that Bioware does it like WoW does it. You need to wear a minimal rating before you are able to queue for it.

The problem is that, to be really interesting, NiM can't just hit hard. It also has to kick up the mechanics and reduce the margin for error. So if you gate it just by item level, eventually you'll start seeing people trickle in that have the gear, but will never clear it anyway because they don't have the awareness.

 

Thus we're back to the Hard Mode situation we have now where coordinated or skilled groups faceroll through (and complain it's easy) and less-skilled groups rack up repair fees and post on the forums demanding Shackles be removed and Beast of Kreshh be toned down and Hammer Station bonus boss be nerfed, etc etc.

 

Group Finder has to be somewhat forgiving relative to the top-edge content because it has to be reasonably accessible to anyone who clicks the button, blindly, with total strangers and lack of advanced coordination. People expect a relatively forgiving, successful run when they hit a GF queue. That runs opposite to the "Nightmare" mindset of pushing your limits and testing your capabilities.

 

If you decide, "Eh, whatever" and just let people throw themselves against it hopelessly, then you have lots of confused upset people demanding nerfs to the unfair content that the game keeps telling them to queue for. And lots of angry "pros" complaining about all the hopeless people infesting their NiM FPs. I feel neither group benefits from it.

 

And yes, making the other Flashpoints available with Nightmare mode would even be more interesting. Now we only have 4 level 55 hardmodes. That's just to little. Revampingthe other FP's to Nightmare mode (possibly even with a Hardmode version) would tripple the amount of available flashpoints.

This, I would love. I really miss seeing False Emp and Directive 7 at 55. Edited May 27, 2013 by SW_display_name

i would rather have new ones with just one difficulty of hardest.

 

oh wait, lost isle was kinda like that and see what that brought to the forums.

 

never mind.

Seriously we need a more unforgiving/difficult setting for the flashpoints. The "hard" versions are a snooze fest and bore me to death already.

Have the bosses drop 1 Ultimate token and no extra loot. Perhaps Arkanian but only for last boss.

 

Yes, I'm geared in Arkanian with a couple 69 and 72. Anyone who does regular OPS wears those. My guild doesn't do hardmode yet sicne we dont ahve enough geared players jsut yet.

 

Dot's need to be more unforgiving.

CC must be applied.

Enrage timers more strickt (not to idiotic strickt ofcourse)

FP's must be tuned with the idea that you must use atleast 1 or maybe 2 cc's for trashpacks.

 

I'm in the same situation of the OP, my guild only runs SM ops because we only have a few guildies that actually raid and pugging a HM op can be an unpleasant situation, but there are some 3-4 of us that do more end-game content.

Bioware could introduce lvl 55 NM modes of the old FP and HM versions of newer FP as a tier 2 that grant Arkanian tokens and an Underworld tolken on the last boss just like LI used to be. Think of them not as flashpoints but as mini-ops that should provide some level of challenge to 4 man groups that cannot do HM-NM raids due to guild size or time constraints but also want to be able to gear up.

Nightmare mode Black Talon....

Lost Island NiM i like the idea, hell, just scale it to 55 before all the nerf, that will be fun

If this was more of something like WoW's challenge modes, sure why not? Make stuff ball bustingly hard and unforgiving, but really I want to see at least one new flashpoint than something just re-done with stuff having more HP and hitting a little bit harder.

 

I get that they have to cut corners here and there but it really feels to me like they aren't trying to give us some fresh new content at times.

Challenge modes would be cool...but honestly at this point I just want new flashpoints and I hate to think of them spending more time working on the existing ones.

 

I came to a sad realization today when I read Ghostcrawler's comments on Twitter about how Cataclysm dungeons were too hard for most people, even the non heroic ones. And I'm like....wow, I must really be more of a minority than I thought....

NMM sounds great but if you where to put it into GF, then GF would need to be modified to reflect the additions. As in have two NMM tiers in GF that would require you to have certain gear so you can even queue up for that mode. And if you don't have a notification pop up that says "You do not have the required gear for this Flashpoint difficulty." It would keep those people with 45 gear at 55 from joining the NMM and hurting the group.

Nightmare mode Black Talon....

This already exists. It happens when you get someone who is level 50 and still refuses to use Spacebar.

This already exists. It happens when you get someone who is level 50 and still refuses to use Spacebar.

 

Heh, I never really minded not spacebarring through BT all that much because the instance itself is really short. Now Directive 7 is another matter.

I came to a sad realization today when I read Ghostcrawler's comments on Twitter about how Cataclysm dungeons were too hard for most people, even the non heroic ones. And I'm like....wow, I must really be more of a minority than I thought....

This is going a bit off-topic, but it's an interesting issue, since Cataclysm dungeons were painfully easy if you had even basic grasp of game mechanics.

 

I believe this stark division occurs because the "average" person is completely capable of being a great player, but isn't motivated to extensively educate themself about a computer game. And MMO developers are still in the archaic RPG design of "giant complex product that has to be figured out with lots of reading, math, trial-and-error, and Google". That clash leads to a lot of players performing way below potential (and not really caring, because it's just a game).

 

So, people willing to put in the time to figure an MMO out and play it well end up being in the minority. The quiet, background majority just bumbles along being impressed by the "good" players and not thinking very hard about what actually separates them. I guess it has a lot of parallels to how things work IRL.

 

If you imagine a game with zero gear barriers (everyone has equalized stats), maximum 6-8 skills per class, and aggressive, extensive in-game tutorial systems that just flat-out tell you how to play your class and role from top to bottom — you would see significantly more people attempting "hard", or at least "not solo", content, because they wouldn't be confused and intimidated.

 

But you have to lead people by the nose; if they can skip learning in favor of getting to swing their sword faster, more often than not, they will Esc past the tutorial and go bumble around.

 

Whether forcibly-educated "good" players would keep attempting content for more than a week before getting bored and quitting is another story that's difficult to predict. And of course, the diehard grognards would spew blood from their eyes because you're making playing computer games easier for lazy people.

as said before :

 

- bring back pre nerf LI

- scale it to 55

- call it nightmare

- ???

-Profit

Add NIM FPs to the groupfinder and let only premade groups of 4 queue for it.

Removes the need for item level check if you can inspect and choose your groupmates beforehand.

Edited May 28, 2013 by Dantharghan

Add NIM FPs to the groupfinder and let only premade groups of 4 queue for it.

Removes the need for item level check if you can inspect and choose your groupmates beforehand.

That's a good compromise.

I thought HM55 FPs through group finder already was 'nightmare mode' lol...and I'm not talking about the difficulty but the 'nightmare' that is:

 

1) undergeared players even being able to queue for them

2) stupid people who don't learn or even want to learn the FPs

3) dps players queing as tanks and healers and wasting my time...

 

But yeah, harder difficulty modes with ultimate comms would be kinda cute, but leave it like the HM ops - a non GF affair...

Edited May 28, 2013 by Snapsix