Okay I'm not one of those guys that yells marauder/sents are OP, but can we please talk about force leap here.

Force Leap does the following...

-Jump to a target (okay with this)

-Hit 1300+ damage (okay with this too)

-Build Focus (fine as well)

-Interrupt (well I guess that's fine too)

-100% chance to hit a critical with force sweep (everyone should have a proc ability like this so that's acceptable)

-Can be spec'd to have no minimum range (well that's a little much seeing as my force pull can't do that, but okay)

And my favorite

-Immobilizes the target for up to 3 seconds through full resolve with a potential 13 second cooldown.

Okay so I'm a tank in huttball. I get the ball. Their team is dumb and fills my resolve to full before a fire pit, my force speed is up and the fire pit just went down. So I'm like totally getting across this pit with Full Resolve, Full HP, and 150% speed for the 2 seconds I need to get to the other side. Right?

So let's do this. I activate force speed, I'm going, I'm going, BAM. Force Leap. Wait, my resolve is full... why can't I move? My force speed is interruptable? My root cleansing ability of force speed didn't work? What happened? The story ends with me being toasted.

Not only this, but given the server lag since 1.3... FORCE LEAP IS BASICALLY A PULL NOW. Twice have I made it across the fire pit only to be pulled back in within seconds because their force leap lagged when I was over the firepit (or they could have prequed this .5 seconds ago while I was still crossing and have it root me there.

Please take into consideration the number of marauders/sents on any given team, and that this can be chained by multiple maras/sents.

Look maras/sents, I don't think you're OP. I think you're balanced and I don't want bioware to nerf you. I just want bioware to be fair here and make your snare/root count towards resolve like all my stuns, mezzes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and pulls do. I'm perfectly fine with you leaping to me while I have the ball, I'm perfectly fine with you hitting me, interrupting me, getting knocked off and jumping back again, but please, please don't freeze me in place for 2-3 seconds when I have full resolve.

Edit: some of my numbers were off, my apologies.

Look maras/sents, I don't think you're OP. I think you're balanced and I don't want bioware to nerf you. I just want bioware to be fair here and make your snare/root count towards resolve like all my stuns, mezzes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and pulls do. I'm perfectly fine with you leaping to me while I have the ball, I'm perfectly fine with you hitting me, interrupting me, getting knocked off and jumping back again, but please, please don't freeze me in place for 4-5 seconds when I have full resolve.

I'm pretty sure every melee class would be happy if they changed it so that roots were effected by, and granted, resolve. Ranged classes, on the other hand, will object strongly. Trust me when I say Jedi Knights suffer from roots being distinct from the resolve system far more than they benefit.

(Also, for the record, using Force Leap to root somebody in the fire takes huge balls and skill (assuming you pull it off without dying yourself. It's one of the more awesome things you can do in Huttball.)

I'm pretty sure every melee class would be happy if they changed it so that roots were effected by, and granted, resolve. Ranged classes, on the other hand, will object strongly. Trust me when I say Jedi Knights suffer from roots being distinct from the resolve system far more than they benefit.

 

(Also, for the record, using Force Leap to root somebody in the fire takes huge balls and skill (assuming you pull it off without dying yourself. It's one of the more awesome things you can do in Huttball.)

Nah they just kamikaze me lol.

I'm a shadow so I'm mainly 10m range so I can't really speak for the ranged guys... but I'm sure those vangaurds that I always see running the ball won't object.

Also, I don't think it's necessary to make everything that slows affect resolve, just anything that 100% prevents movement.

First of all, those points combined only applies for one build, for one ac. These changes would cause havoc for a guardian. Vigilance will never be played again in a pvp setting.

And i don't think sents or maras will ever have a spec that involves both no min range, while being sweep-based? For it to be functional as a smasher/focus spec, you will need the full 31 points, and with that you will not reach the 0 min range for leap. Just saying.

Nevertheless, your overall idea would wreck guardians, and should never have been brought up, on the off-chance that someone actually takes it serious.

First of all, those points combined only applies for one build, for one ac. These changes would cause havoc for a guardian. Vigilance will never be played again in a pvp setting.

 

And i don't think sents or maras will ever have a spec that involves both no min range, while being sweep-based? For it to be functional as a smasher/focus spec, you will need the full 31 points, and with that you will not reach the 0 min range for leap. Just saying.

 

Nevertheless, your overall idea would wreck guardians, and should never have been brought up, on the off-chance that someone actually takes it serious.

How is it fair that JK/SW get to 100% prevent all movement through full resolve, but not any other class?

If gaurdians are wrecked by playing by the same rules as everyone else, then that's a different problem with their tree. I'm pretty confident in saying that a gaurded gaurdian/jug with 25k hp and BiS gear is immortal, so I think you may be exaggerating.

Okay I'm not one of those guys that yells marauder/sents are OP, but can we please talk about force leap here.

 

Force Leap does the following...

-Jump to a target (okay with this)

-Hit 1300+ damage (okay with this too)

-Build Focus (fine as well)

-Interrupt (well I guess that's fine too)

-100% chance to hit a critical with force sweep (everyone should have a proc ability like this so that's acceptable)

-Can be spec'd to have no minimum range (well that's a little much seeing as my force pull can't do that, but okay)

 

And my favorite

-Immobilizes the target for up to 5 seconds through full resolve with a potential 13 second cooldown.

 

Okay so I'm a tank in huttball. I get the ball. Their team is dumb and fills my resolve to full before a fire pit, my force speed is up and the fire pit just went down. So I'm like totally getting across this pit with Full Resolve, Full HP, and 150% speed for the 2 seconds I need to get to the other side. Right?

 

So let's do this. I activate force speed, I'm going, I'm going, BAM. Force Leap. Wait, my resolve is full... why can't I move? My force speed is interruptable? My root cleansing ability of force speed didn't work? What happened? The story ends with me being toasted.

 

Not only this, but given the server lag since 1.3... FORCE LEAP IS BASICALLY A PULL NOW. Twice have I made it across the fire pit only to be pulled back in within seconds because their force leap lagged when I was over the firepit (or they could have prequed this .5 seconds ago while I was still crossing and have it root me there.

 

Please take into consideration the number of marauders/sents on any given team, and that this can be chained by multiple maras/sents.

 

Look maras/sents, I don't think you're OP. I think you're balanced and I don't want bioware to nerf you. I just want bioware to be fair here and make your snare/root count towards resolve like all my stuns, mezzes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and pulls do. I'm perfectly fine with you leaping to me while I have the ball, I'm perfectly fine with you hitting me, interrupting me, getting knocked off and jumping back again, but please, please don't freeze me in place for 4-5 seconds when I have full resolve.

The last 3 things on your list there made me lol.

3 seconds is the max root duration for leap.

Sure it can be specced to have a 0 range on it but you can't spec it to do both the crit and the 0 range and be effective in those trees.

How is it fair that JK/SW get to 100% prevent all movement through full resolve, but not any other class?

 

If gaurdians are wrecked by playing by the same rules as everyone else, then that's a different problem with their tree. I'm pretty confident in saying that a gaurded gaurdian/jug with 25k hp and BiS gear is immortal, so I think you may be exaggerating.

All classes can root/snare through resolve not just maras

The thing is, it would screw up leap too much. A gap closer such as this needs something against the lag, something like a slow, a root or a short stun, otherwise the target can keep moving and you're out of range, which would make the whole thing really annoying.

Maybe make it slow the target by 30% and give a 30% speed boost? Something like that, if roots are put on resolve.

How is it fair that JK/SW get to 100% prevent all movement through full resolve, but not any other class?

Wait what? you mean to tell me that Sever Force will not root the target if it has full resolve? That Tendon Blast talented will not root the target if it has full resolve?

No. Bad idea. Was grateful when they took this out. All of the classes get their little perks, this is ours.

How is it fair that JK/SW get to 100% prevent all movement through full resolve, but not any other class?

 

If gaurdians are wrecked by playing by the same rules as everyone else, then that's a different problem with their tree. I'm pretty confident in saying that a gaurded gaurdian/jug with 25k hp and BiS gear is immortal, so I think you may be exaggerating.

As someone said earlier all classes with a root or snare can apply them without worrying about resolve, which makes it fair. When it comes to utility, leap is the bread and butter for a guardian, seeing as it is the tool that allows us to actually keep people in fighting distance, without that root, we would be severely gimped.

They tried to add a short stun, which did affect the resolve, but this was scrapped after some testing, because it wasn't viable at all.

What you could try to point out is the different talents that affect leap and in your eyes make it op, but suggesting to ruin the ability all across the board, is a stupid idea.

As someone said earlier all classes with a root or snare can apply them without worrying about resolve, which makes it fair. When it comes to utility, leap is the bread and butter for a guardian, seeing as it is the tool that allows us to actually keep people in fighting distance, without that root, we would be severely gimped.

 

They tried to add a short stun, which did affect the resolve, but this was scrapped after some testing, because it wasn't viable at all.

 

What you could try to point out is the different talents that affect leap and in your eyes make it op, but suggesting to ruin the ability all across the board, is a stupid idea.

"ruin the ability" oh god I'm laughing.

Tell me how a shadow tank immobilizes 100% through resolve.

Server force is like 1 second and only available if you get to the very top of the balance tree which has 0% survivability. Thats no where close to the same move doing the same 4 second root no matter what spec they are. In fact you don't even need to have a single skill tree point in order to do so on a sw/jk.

"ruin the ability" oh god I'm laughing.

 

Tell me how a shadow tank immobilizes 100% through resolve.

 

Server force is like 1 second and only available if you get to the very top of the balance tree which has 0% survivability. Thats no where close to the same move doing the same 4 second root no matter what spec they are. In fact you don't even need to have a single skill tree point in order to do so on a sw/jk.

I jump on you, you're not rooted. You walk away before I can touch you (global cooldown forbid) because of lag or because I'm slowed. There needs to be something. Like leap slows the target, leap removes snares and boosts speed by 20%, leap roots the target, etc. Lots of people complained about obliterate beofre they put that 1 sec snare, because it didn't allow you to connect your target, which is what it was supposed to do.

I jump on you, you're not rooted. You walk away before I can touch you (global cooldown forbid) because of lag or because I'm slowed. There needs to be something. Like leap slows the target, leap removes snares and boosts speed by 20%, leap roots the target, etc. Lots of people complained about obliterate beofre they put that 1 sec snare, because it didn't allow you to connect your target, which is what it was supposed to do.

Not when I'm full resolve, I don't want this to be an argument of "there needs to be something to 100% snare someone with full resolve so he can't get away from me while I'm attacking him". I said earlier a slow is acceptable, but not 100% immobilization, what would be the point of resolve if some classes get to bypass it and other classes don't.

How is it fair that JK/SW get to 100% prevent all movement through full resolve, but not any other class?

 

If gaurdians are wrecked by playing by the same rules as everyone else, then that's a different problem with their tree. I'm pretty confident in saying that a gaurded gaurdian/jug with 25k hp and BiS gear is immortal, so I think you may be exaggerating.

Uh, other classes can prevent all movement through full resolve too with roots. Snipers, Operative Concealment, Madness Sorc, Carnage Mara, to name a few.

As for the original post, you are complaining about roots in a fire trap when you should have saved your force speed to counter and break it once you were rooted, not before. Sure, you can't always do this, but that is what passing is for. Pass the ball, you are supposed to.

Can we please stop being clueless about what skills do before we cry NERF NERF NERF!

Jump can be specced by sentinels to have no range. Yes it's fairly deep in their tree however, the same for the other spec that gives you the crit on force sweep.

The root is a max of 3 seconds, and it needs to be talented to 3 seconds by both classes.

Now to other classes that have this: Snipers get a 3 second root that's 35m range.

The 31 pt talent in the shared Sorc tree also has a 2 second root to it.

Okay I'm not one of those guys that yells marauder/sents are OP, but can we please talk about force leap here.

 

Force Leap does the following...

-Jump to a target (okay with this)

-Hit 1300+ damage (okay with this too)

-Build Focus (fine as well)

-Interrupt (well I guess that's fine too)

-100% chance to hit a critical with force sweep (everyone should have a proc ability like this so that's acceptable)

-Can be spec'd to have no minimum range (well that's a little much seeing as my force pull can't do that, but okay)

 

And my favorite

-Immobilizes the target for up to 5 seconds through full resolve with a potential 13 second cooldown.

Okay so I'm a tank in huttball. I get the ball. Their team is dumb and fills my resolve to full before a fire pit, my force speed is up and the fire pit just went down. So I'm like totally getting across this pit with Full Resolve, Full HP, and 150% speed for the 2 seconds I need to get to the other side. Right?

 

So let's do this. I activate force speed, I'm going, I'm going, BAM. Force Leap. Wait, my resolve is full... why can't I move? My force speed is interruptable? My root cleansing ability of force speed didn't work? What happened? The story ends with me being toasted.

 

Not only this, but given the server lag since 1.3... FORCE LEAP IS BASICALLY A PULL NOW. Twice have I made it across the fire pit only to be pulled back in within seconds because their force leap lagged when I was over the firepit (or they could have prequed this .5 seconds ago while I was still crossing and have it root me there.

 

Please take into consideration the number of marauders/sents on any given team, and that this can be chained by multiple maras/sents.

 

Look maras/sents, I don't think you're OP. I think you're balanced and I don't want bioware to nerf you. I just want bioware to be fair here and make your snare/root count towards resolve like all my stuns, mezzes, knockbacks, knockdowns, and pulls do. I'm perfectly fine with you leaping to me while I have the ball, I'm perfectly fine with you hitting me, interrupting me, getting knocked off and jumping back again, but please, please don't freeze me in place for 4-5 seconds when I have full resolve.

First of all, it does 1300ish damage on a critical hit.

The automatic critical is if they are Rage spec and use that to power up their Smash.

Only Annihilation spec marauders can eliminate the dead space for Force Charge

Only Annihilation spec marauders can lower the cooldown to 12 seconds.

You have to pick up Stagger from either Carnage tree, or Vengeance tree to give it an extra second root for a grand total of 3 SECONDS.

You act like that's the ONLY root thrown in the game. You have Concealment spec Operatives who can add a root effect to their Sever Tendon, Sorcs who can add a root to their Overload, Cover Pulse/Leg Shot for Snipers, Carnage tree options for Deadly Throw/Ravage, Obliterate for Juggernauts/Marauders, sorcerers/assassins who can go madness for Creeping Terror, and the Shield Tech Powertechs can spec into Jet Charge/No Escape for even more immobilizing power. Oh, and you forgot GRENADES.

The root effect is fine, especially compared to other games(Champion's Challenge for the Warhammer Online tanks lasted 10 seconds, and couldn't be dispelled)

You decided to single out marauders/juggernauts, wanting a nerf to be lowered on our Force Charge because of a 3 second immobilize....Here's an idea. Read up on each class ability and what the skill calculators hold before you blame us for ruining your chance of having a Tebow moment.

2 seconds root baseline, 3 seconds talented. If BW wanted charge to count towards resolve, they'd leave baseline stun for Guardians\Juggernauts that was in testing for 1.2.

Also, if you're hoping that this root would fill half of your resolve, you'd be disappointed. Even if it counted towards Resolve, it would not be much.

Leap is just ridiculous, at least at the range it has. Giving it 0-15m range as baseline would fix it, then apply a slow as an extra talentable effect.

I'm pretty sure he means 5 seconds because if you leap at max range, your target sits there waiting for you to land, THEN gets rooted when you land which makes the whole thing over the top. Applying a slow is a far more elegant solution, because completely unspecced, the leap as it works now already roots someone for the time it takes you to reach them, which I find completely silly in the first place. If you're too far away to land quickly and need your target to just sit there and wait for you for 2 seconds, well you're probably way too far away for melee aren't you?

Leap is just ridiculous, at least at the range it has. Giving it 0-15m range as baseline would fix it, then apply a slow as an extra talentable effect.

 

I'm pretty sure he means 5 seconds because if you leap at max range, your target sits there waiting for you to land, THEN gets rooted when you land which makes the whole thing over the top. Applying a slow is a far more elegant solution, because completely unspecced, the leap as it works now already roots someone for the time it takes you to reach them, which I find completely silly in the first place. If you're too far away to land quickly and need your target to just sit there and wait for you for 2 seconds, well you're probably way too far away for melee aren't you?

It could be worse. They could give the Force Charge or Force Leap a talent to trait into, called Glomp, making it a 3 second knockdown like the old Jarring Strike. The warrior/knight goes coast to coast, and tackles his target.

So let me see if I can get this straight. You want it to be where the root happens while the mantis leap is happening, but wears off immediately upon landing? Or you just want a snare instead of a root? Bear with me if I seem a little slow on this when you answer.

Leap is just ridiculous, at least at the range it has. Giving it 0-15m range as baseline would fix it, then apply a slow as an extra talentable effect.

 

I'm pretty sure he means 5 seconds because if you leap at max range, your target sits there waiting for you to land, THEN gets rooted when you land which makes the whole thing over the top. Applying a slow is a far more elegant solution, because completely unspecced, the leap as it works now already roots someone for the time it takes you to reach them, which I find completely silly in the first place. If you're too far away to land quickly and need your target to just sit there and wait for you for 2 seconds, well you're probably way too far away for melee aren't you?

The root is calculated the moment the skill is activated, and ends just as intended. Slow would be redundant.

0-15 range defeats the very purpose of this skill. 10-30 range is fine.

It could be worse. They could give the Force Charge or Force Leap a talent to trait into, called Glomp, making it a 3 second knockdown like the old Jarring Strike. The warrior/knight goes coast to coast, and tackles his target.

 

So let me see if I can get this straight. You want it to be where the root happens while the mantis leap is happening, but wears off immediately upon landing? Or you just want a snare instead of a root? Bear with me if I seem a little slow on this when you answer.

Root while flying, snare on landing, or preferably snare while flying, root on landing.

I just think it's absolutely ludicrous that because someone is flying towards me, I have to sit there and watch them do it to "counteract lag", possibly while standing on a firepit. If they land on me and knock me the **** to the ground for 1.5 seconds, that's cool too as long as there's an awesome animation/visual effect that communicates the "KAPOW ******" intent of it. Right now it's "Hey look, there's some guy flying at me, who is that...? Oh it's this guy! How the **** did you get over here? I guess I'd better move now, huh? You're kind of hurting me"

The root is calculated the moment the skill is activated, and ends just as intended. Slow would be redundant.

 

0-15 range defeats the very purpose of this skill. 10-30 range is fine.

Since it effectively extends melee range to 30m, I emphatically disagree unless you extend ranged abilities to 50m. Especially if I have a goddamn sniper rifle.

Since it effectively extends melee range to 30m, I emphatically disagree unless you extend ranged abilities to 50m. Especially if I have a gosh darn sniper rifle.

Yeah, Charge magically enables melee to maintain a 100% uptime. Oh, wit, it doesn't - it has a cooldown, and it can be prevented, countered, delayed.

Also, Cover. Use it, love it. I do on my Scoundrel. I'd be stupid not to on my Sniper. Lots of pain in the hindquarters to be had for Warriors and Knights. 50-meter range would be redundant, and would make Snipers vastly overpowered. If I got a 40-meter kiting window as opposite to a 20-meter one, I'd be untouchable by any close-range enemy.

As a Sage, I run either full Balance, or survival hybrid - I have roots, I have slows, I have hard stuns, I have sprint. Enough to keep the vast majority of melee at bay.