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Too much Burst


LuciusEverbane

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Hello everyone,

 

I have both a Sent / Mara and Guardian / Jugg and the Burst Specs, Concentration / Fury and Focus / Rage needs to be nerfed. Why is any Class, especially in PvP, bursting for 25k to sometimes even 40k per hit? That's just insane damage output. That Spec needs to be reworked so that it does not offer an unfair advantage to players who premade or even Win Trade.

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You've made quite a few threads complaining about the burst of other classes, some of which are really not that good ( assassins ). I'm going to guess you're comparing them to your own.

 

The common denominator in all of these threads is you. There are a ton of skills / mitigation in this game that you need to familiarize yourself with before you can accel in pvp.

 

It'll take awhile, so I recommend studying your own shortcomings before you say the game is broken. Truthfully across the board damage output is pretty well balanced. Utility and control capability is where some classes outstrip others imo. Oh, and range vs melee.

 

If anything bioware needs to balance the dps output of tank specs, guard in pvp, and offheals before they go breaking classes.

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Hello everyone,

 

I have both a Sent / Mara and Guardian / Jugg and the Burst Specs, Concentration / Fury and Focus / Rage needs to be nerfed. Why is any Class, especially in PvP, bursting for 25k to sometimes even 40k per hit? That's just insane damage output. That Spec needs to be reworked so that it does not offer an unfair advantage to players who premade or even Win Trade.

 

The average HP pool is 138k.....25-40k crits is not that much compared to total HP and MM snipers/AP PT burst is way higher than Mara. If anything I'd like to see survive-ability go down on many classes and burst go up. Players should be dying in pvp.

 

And what does premades have to do with class balance?

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And what does premades have to do with class balance?

 

I'm pretty sure that if you queue up with a group you get an across the board 25% dmg boost for everyone in your group. So full premades are doing double the damage of us solo queue people. Or maybe that's a new tactical I saw on the PTS. I can't quite remember now, but I know I read or saw that somewhere reliable. Oh, you know, it's probably a new tactical. So many people want to premade and own the other team, so that's probably their tactical to "let them play their way".

 

Solo queue'rs tactical is to increase their chance for a backfill 3 times over. 'Cause anyone who solo queues must really love backfills!

 

:p

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The level of burst is fine. Marauders can indeed hit hard, but they're a melee class without off-heals or DCDs that heal. Without support they're glass cannons.

 

As for premades, the reason why some of them nuke targets is not because some classes have too much burst but because they're all focusing the same target. Add to that an opposing team that is all puggers who may not have heals or guard to help mitigate, pug teams that tend to fight lots of separate battles instead of all focusing down one player at a time arena style, plus premades often including their own healer, and you can get lopsided kill counts. That isn't a class balance issue however. You can put 3 of the lowest parsing specs together in a premade and they will also delete puggers if they're all focusing the same target.

 

If anything the burst of some other specs in this game needs to be cranked up with defenses tuned down. The problem with SWTOR PVP is not that some classes have too much burst, but that between strong DCDs (some classes more than others), guard, healing, escapes, ect if teams are relatively balanced the TTK for both teams is often too high.

 

If it were up to me every DPS spec in this game would be where powertechs are currently and both warzones and arenas would be hard capped at one tank, one healer per team. (I main a healer btw)

Edited by Aeneas_Falco
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Marauders can indeed hit hard, but they're a melee class without off-heals or DCDs that heal. Without support they're glass cannons.

 

Not true at all. Mara dcds are excellent, and they are totally self-sufficient with their ability to force camo out and heal to full as many times as necessary.

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The level of burst is fine. Marauders can indeed hit hard, but they're a melee class without off-heals or DCDs that heal. Without support they're glass cannons.

 

As for premades, the reason why some of them nuke targets is not because some classes have too much burst but because they're all focusing the same target. Add to that an opposing team that is all puggers who may not have heals or guard to help mitigate, pug teams that tend to fight lots of separate battles instead of all focusing down one player at a time arena style, plus premades often including their own healer, and you can get lopsided kill counts. That isn't a class balance issue however. You can put 3 of the lowest parsing specs together in a premade and they will also delete puggers if they're all focusing the same target.

 

If anything the burst of some other specs in this game needs to be cranked up with defenses tuned down. The problem with SWTOR PVP is not that some classes have too much burst, but that between strong DCDs (some classes more than others), guard, healing, escapes, ect if teams are relatively balanced the TTK for both teams is often too high.

 

If it were up to me every DPS spec in this game would be where powertechs are currently and both warzones and arenas would be hard capped at one tank, one healer per team. (I main a healer btw)

 

Can thank solo ranked for that. Ever since arenas and solo ranked became a thing, class utilities kept getting beefier and beefier. I'd like to see defensive skills/utilities across the board get removed/nerfed and some go back to how they used to be were it was spec specific.

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Not true at all. Mara dcds are excellent, and they are totally self-sufficient with their ability to force camo out and heal to full as many times as necessary.

 

Mara DCDs are ok.

 

While they're in a better place than Powertechs they're not as tanky as Mercs or Snipers, and they don't have the off heals that Operatives, Mercs, or Sorcs have.

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Can thank solo ranked for that. Ever since arenas and solo ranked became a thing, class utilities kept getting beefier and beefier. I'd like to see defensive skills/utilities across the board get removed/nerfed and some go back to how they used to be were it was spec specific.

 

You and me both.

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Mara DCDs are ok.

 

While they're in a better place than Powertechs they're not as tanky as Mercs or Snipers, and they don't have the off heals that Operatives, Mercs, or Sorcs have.

 

If maras didn't have the ability to stealth out and heal to full every 45 seconds, you would be right. But they do, so you're wrong.

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mara is the best melee dps in the game. they have tools for every iteration of instanced pvp. knowing how and when to use those tools is another issue. and they certainly can be targeted and focused down first. but you have to out comp them or get very lucky with an aoe/stealth scan. I've basically global'd very good maras before. but I also had 3 nets on my team, thus turning his breaker into mush -- as it would do to literally any other class in the game.

 

maras have excellent cc immunity, excellent burst, solid dcds, an excellent escape, excellent cc that works on single and grp targets; and they have some of the best synergy in the game with pred, obfuscate, and gore. but you have to really know what you're doing on them to take advantage of it.

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If maras didn't have the ability to stealth out and heal to full every 45 seconds, you would be right. But they do, so you're wrong.

 

Mara stealth is easy to counter because it is short and you can predict which way the Mara is going to go to hide/ regen.

 

Do teams fail to counter? Sure, but 90% of the time it's due to bad play and/or support from teammates. On it's own its not that strong. It's not even close to being on the same level as Ops or Sins stealth. (and shouldn't be)

 

To be clear I'm not saying Maras or weak. The opposite, in fact. They can hit like freight trains, but they should be able to do that because they're 1) melee, 2) don't have self-heals unlike some other DPS, and 3) aren't the worst offenders when it comes to defenses being overtuned.

Edited by Aeneas_Falco
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Mara stealth is easy to counter because it is short and you can predict which way the Mara is going to go to hide/ regen.

 

Do teams fail to counter? Sure, but 90% of the time it's due to bad play and/or support from teammates. On it's own its not that strong. It's not even close to being on the same level as Ops or Sins stealth. (and shouldn't be)

 

Simply not true. Do you play solo ranked?

 

To be clear I'm not saying Maras or weak. The opposite, in fact. They can hit like freight trains, but they should be able to do that because they're 1) melee, 2) don't have self-heals unlike some other DPS, and 3) aren't the worst offenders when it comes to defenses being overtuned.

 

Claiming maras lack self heals is literally laughable given they can stealth out and heal to full every 45 seconds. It's just backwards thinking.

 

I think the only change maras need is for force camo to be on a 1 min 30 sec cooldown. Yet Bioware is giving them the ability to make it a 30 second cooldown, so maras will continue to be FOTM for the foreseeable future.

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If maras didn't have the ability to stealth out and heal to full every 45 seconds, you would be right. But they do, so you're wrong.

 

You do know that the stealth doesn't actually take them out of combat right? They have to practically go to the other side of the map to get out of combat then heal up. That's a long time to be out of combat and leave the team in a 4v3.

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You do know that the stealth doesn't actually take them out of combat right? They have to practically go to the other side of the map to get out of combat then heal up. That's a long time to be out of combat and leave the team in a 4v3.

 

Of course I know that. The good maras often do it multiple times per match. Sometimes it's possible to chase them and counter that strategy, sometimes it's much more difficult. So many of the average maras don't seem to understand how powerful a tool it is.

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Foxmob and I have tried to educate you in this thread, but apparently to no avail. Oh well.

 

This is the final bit of clarification I'll add on the subject. I was *not* saying that Maras have weak defenses, I was stating that Maras' damage is fine in light of the fact that they are melee and their defenses are not in a state where they should be at the top of a "Need Nerf" list.

 

My perspective is also coming from someone who plays against Maras, not as one, so I don't think I'm biased in saying they're fine.

 

Clear now?

 

I hope so, as I have no further interest in engaging in a pointless debate with someone who is just determined to be argumentative over a point I didn't make.

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Of course I know that. The good maras often do it multiple times per match. Sometimes it's possible to chase them and counter that strategy, sometimes it's much more difficult. So many of the average maras don't seem to understand how powerful a tool it is.

 

Ya that 1% of the time when there's a healer in the match....The other 99% of the time its 4dps vs 4dps....No mara is stealing out multiple times in those scenarios and a merc/sniper that can heal themselves while blowing you up is incredibly more lucrative then an ability that requires you to run away and lose uptime on damage.

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Hello everyone,

 

I have both a Sent / Mara and Guardian / Jugg and the Burst Specs, Concentration / Fury and Focus / Rage needs to be nerfed. Why is any Class, especially in PvP, bursting for 25k to sometimes even 40k per hit? That's just insane damage output. That Spec needs to be reworked so that it does not offer an unfair advantage to players who premade or even Win Trade.

 

There isnt anything wrong with their burst other than it being too low. Before the 4.0 surge nerfs you could actually global somebody and it actually took skill to not get deleted in pvp.

 

All pvp is now is a bunch of care bears who cant find a way to stay alive with 10 different dcds all while doing 2k dps and then they go cry on the forums.

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I hope so, as I have no further interest in engaging in a pointless debate with someone who is just determined to be argumentative over a point I didn't make.

 

You literally said:

Without support they're glass cannons.

 

Not my fault you started backtracking.

 

Ya that 1% of the time when there's a healer in the match....The other 99% of the time its 4dps vs 4dps....No mara is stealing out multiple times in those scenarios and a merc/sniper that can heal themselves while blowing you up is incredibly more lucrative then an ability that requires you to run away and lose uptime on damage.

 

Yes they are stealthing out multiple times in all dps matches. You clearly haven't played much solo ranked against good maras. It happens all the time. Mercs are certainly better than maras in all dps matches, and snipers and ops are close to as good. But maras are miles ahead of sins, sorcs, juggs and pts.

 

And to be clear, I never said maras need to be nerfed (except their force camo cooldown should be doubled), but their defensive cooldowns and overall survivability is very good even without a healer, and to pretend otherwise is to be delusional.

Edited by JediMasterAlex
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