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An open letter about trash in operations

AndrewAlberts's Avatar


AndrewAlberts
03.25.2020 , 09:50 AM | #1
Dear developers

I would like to say that your handling of the phenomenon that is the mass culling of mobs outside Karagga's Palace was well thought out, timely, and not likely to backfire. I would like to say that, but that is clearly not the case. True, it needed to stop, but you removed the adds, and that is all you did. Hiding the problem and hoping it goes away on its own only serves to make the problem worse once it resurfaces. Case in point, the players that used to farm Karagga's Palace mobs have moved to other operations to farm trash there.

To use a rather crude metaphor, this is much like cancer. Sure, you can cut out the tumours, but fail to treat the source, and all you're doing is just buying time (Yes, I am aware I've stolen this from the very first Assassin's Creed, I don't care, the metaphor still applies, dang it). I also seem to remember at least one commenter on these forums telling you that this wouldn't work. Did you listen? No, you did not, and there's another problem consistent with your team. A growing number of players feel like they aren't being listened to, that their voices do not matter, regardless of how loud they shout in the forums, and they can yell for a good long while, trust me on that.

Between this, add skipping to an excessive degree where more effort is spent on playing Metal Gear Solid: Star Wars edition than actually killing the adds, Hammer Station spamming when 6.0 hit, and now this, all of it has combined into a toxic cesspool of players seeking the quick and easy path, and a dev team that almost enables them, either through implementing changes such as tactical flashpoints (seriously, whose idea was those?), or through an inability to react to an exploit fast enough to stop players benefitting from laziness, while the very few players that remember what was, and those that seek to play properly, may be leaving in droves because they are sick of the toxicity. I don't speak for them, so I can only guess whether or not they're still playing.

The aforementioned commenter who told you this wouldn't work also put forward a suggestion, have trash in operations give zero renown and conquest XP. This has merit, because it would discourage farming, if not destroy it entirely. What else can you do? Keep deleting groups of mobs until all operations become empty boss gauntlets? That doesn't seem very fun. Not to me, anyway. Also, if this is happening with current content, how will it impact any new content you hope to release? You can only sweep a problem under the carpet for so long before it gets out of control and blows up in your face. Get it together before it's too late.

Regards

A concerned player.

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
03.25.2020 , 12:42 PM | #2
Award the points for trash mobs in ops only after the boss before the final one has been killed.
El'ethon - Sentinel <Taking the Jawas to Alderaan> Tulak Hord

Opiklo's Avatar


Opiklo
03.25.2020 , 04:34 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Ardarell_Solo View Post
Award the points for trash mobs in ops only after the boss before the final one has been killed.
i'll take it a step förther..... finish the op and get your reward.
RiP Forum

Townowi's Avatar


Townowi
03.25.2020 , 08:44 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by AndrewAlberts View Post
Between this, add skipping to an excessive degree where more effort is spent on playing Metal Gear Solid: Star Wars edition than actually killing the adds
This is simply because so many people feel trash is tedious and provide no real challenge (at least compared to the bosses the trash is sandwiched between). Either make trash more rewarding (outside of CQ points of course, but maybe have them drop decos or mats) or just have the next FP/op be completely trash-free, and still have some measure of reward, on an experimental basis. I already talked in another thread as to what kind of story premises could even allow a trash-free FP/op to make any sense at all.

That said, the outcomes of such an experiment would likely result either 1) calling for the removal of trash in existing content, and maybe even complete removal of trash (but that would be a bit extreme), 2) future content being completely trash-free going forward even though the trash in existing content was unaffected or 3) the trash-free content would be poorly-received enough for future content to go back to having trash, no matter how unengaging.

Quote:
Keep deleting groups of mobs until all operations become empty boss gauntlets?
Maybe empty boss gauntlets would be better-appreciated than what we have now for what we know, and having faster full-clears would incentivize full-clears. Especially because trash is unengaging at least relative to bosses, and more often than not, tedious. In my experience, bosses are far more challenging and engaging than trash in nearly every group content (Kaon being the outlier) and trash can be removed entirely without any real loss in challenge/difficulty in nearly all current content.

However, the most problematic trash in operations often lie before the first boss.

TerraStomper's Avatar


TerraStomper
03.25.2020 , 08:45 PM | #5
The whole debacle around farming trash in operations suggests some possibilities:
  • Running an operation isn't worth enough conquest points
  • Farming the trash within is worth too many conquest points
  • The rewards for killing a boss may no longer be worth the gear or tech fragments they drop.

Ardarell_Solo's Avatar


Ardarell_Solo
03.26.2020 , 01:00 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Opiklo View Post
i'll take it a step förther..... finish the op and get your reward.
Some final bosses are way harder than the rest of the operation, that's why I'd suggest leaving them out.
El'ethon - Sentinel <Taking the Jawas to Alderaan> Tulak Hord

dready_tv's Avatar


dready_tv
03.26.2020 , 04:03 AM | #7
Who are you kidding? The only reason people are crying so hard like always is because they cannot farm something that wasen't intended in the first place so they fixed it. Just like CXP farm before. Nothing new so people need to stop being so whiny.

In operations the challenging part is the bosses not the actual trash.
Where it does actually matter quite a lot is how you handle trash is in Gods Nim/MM, where learning how to handle the trash(that can literally one shot you if u do it incorrect) is vital for timed runs as an example.
So they do have a purpose in the harder content.

The trash in KP wasn't even positioned to be needed to kill to reach the boss anyway but was only there for "visual" effects but people took advantage of that and ruined it instead.
So lets be real here no one would actually give a **** or put any effort being massively loud on the forums if they removed trash if they had no real impact for an operation or provide heavy benefits(like Conq/Renown), now when they did so you cant abuse it anymore & people just cry about it.
It was 4-5 mobs right at the start that was removed (that you could technically bypass completely anyway) the rest is still there that actually blocks you from reaching the boss so you need to kill them like it is supposed to be.

At least now you actually have to beat one encounter in any operation before you do your "farm".
Removing Conq/Renown from trash would indeed remove the farm completely.