SWTOR will never be sandbox. PERIOD. if you want that, go play something else

I can't think of a game that is completely sandbox, even minecraft doesn't let you do whatever you like.

But what SWTOR can be is much more sandy (with sandbox features).

Open world PvP and RvR (I still can't understand how the made such a mess of SWTORs RvR), more open worlds, open free roaming space, deeper more lateral crafting, perhaps more sandy classes, lateral expansion at maximum level (either through legacy or something else), quests that aren't just kill X mobs and turn it.

It'll never be a skill-based MMORPG (it's core has to be level-based unless they do something as drastic as they did with SWG).

But skill-based and level-based aren't the same thing as sandbox and themepark, after all Minecraft has a level based design, not a skill-based one.

Ive they want SWTOR to grow they need to move away from the polished but incredible static "themepark" core and bolt on a lot more "sandy" features....... which is perfectly possible for them to do.

Lot's of games looked dead at one point or another. SWTOR now really is a very good game and is a lot of fun to play. I think it has a fair shot at continuing as a paid subscriber game, and if it goes F2P it'll live forever, not unlike LOTRO and other games that looked dead. For crying out loud Anarchy Online is still alive and kicking, and anyone that played that at launch will tell you there must have been divine intervention to make that happen.

Whenver you're thinking that SWTOR is dead just remember this, Asheron's Call is still a paid subscription game. That was released before half of the people playing SWTOR could walk.

Heres a clue: This isnt SWG. It will never be SWG.

Why would it want to be?

The idea for SWTOR would be to be better than itself now and SWG.

Ideally by a marrying of the two games strenghts to negate both the games serious weaknesses.

Why would it want to be?

 

The idea for SWTOR would be to be better than itself now and SWG.

 

Ideally by a marrying of the two games strenghts to negate both the games serious weaknesses.

Everytime I hear people talk about this they always say "SWG was like this and SWTOR should also be like this". The game engine will not even allow for it. Most people complaining about no sandbox options are from SWG and miss SWG. They want this to be SWG2. It is not ever going to be that. There is no sense in cluttering up the forums asking for things that can never happen.

Lot's of games looked dead at one point or another. SWTOR now really is a very good game and is a lot of fun to play. I think it has a fair shot at continuing as a paid subscriber game, and if it goes F2P it'll live forever, not unlike LOTRO and other games that looked dead. For crying out loud Anarchy Online is still alive and kicking, and anyone that played that at launch will tell you there must have been divine intervention to make that happen.

 

Whenver you're thinking that SWTOR is dead just remember this, Asheron's Call is still a paid subscription game. That was released before half of the people playing SWTOR could walk.

You make some good points. But I think the theme of this thread is more along the lines of can it be saved from it's steady decline of subs lost. The answer is yes it can. But things are seldom that simple in reality. Of course it will continue on as a MMO and very possible as a sub base model for years to come. How much it is successful in the future ( with sub numbers ) will depend on what direction the game leaders take it.

In my opinion tho, the core of the game needs to be changed/adjusted, etc to gather in a lot more subs and I donot see that happening. It may be too cost preventive and they ( EA , BioWare and Lucas Arts ) may simply not want to put that much money back into the game. But hey, time proves all things in this world. And I or noone has a crystal ball on this subject.

Everytime I hear people talk about this they always say "SWG was like this and SWTOR should also be like this". The game engine will not even allow for it. Most people complaining about no sandbox options are from SWG and miss SWG. They want this to be SWG2. It is not ever going to be that. There is no sense in cluttering up the forums asking for things that can never happen.

SWTOR cannot have better open world PvP?

SWTOR cannot have any RvR?

SWTOR cannot have a space expansion that allows you to actually fly ships?

SWTOR cannot have a deeper crafting system?

SWTOR cannot have bigger planets?

SWTOR cannot have none kill X mob quests?

SWTOR cannot have lateral growth for characters?

There's many things that were in SWG (and not in SWG by still sandy) that would vastly improve SWTOR.

The issue isn't recreating SWG, the issue is making SWTOR better, whether or not the idea was in SWG.

SWTOR cannot have better open world PvP?

SWTOR cannot have any RvR?

SWTOR cannot have a space expansion that allows you to actually fly ships?

SWTOR cannot have a deeper crafting system?

SWTOR cannot have bigger planets?

SWTOR cannot have none kill X mob quests?

SWTOR cannot have lateral growth for characters?

 

 

There's many things that were in SWG (and not in SWG by still sandy) that would vastly improve SWTOR.

 

The issue isn't recreating SWG, the issue is making SWTOR better, whether or not the idea was in SWG.

I do not buy that argument for second. They out sourced the Space Combat to another company and it can be done again and integrated into the game just like anything else.

from those horrible forum trolls? you bet, a little common sense, logic and basic reasoning skills will drive them off.

edit: if you do not have access to these, a smith and wesson works wonders, too.

SWTOR will never be sandbox. PERIOD. if you want that, go play something else

Nobody is asking here for pure sandbox or replica of SWG get a clue dude .

But a lot of players dont want WoW 2.0 either which this game turned to be atm for anyone who reached level 50 , because whoever wants WoW wil rather go play original because who would play WoW copycat game when you can play original which is better.

- Players want a SPICE to this game and not another pure geargrind treadmill.

And if Bioware would mix best of both worlds , good elements of themepark games with a good elements of sandbox game would be much better and it would gain a lot more subs.

So besides raiding and warzones having this elements would make this game a lot better than it is now :

- RVR PVP in the game

- 3D space combat and exploration with space PVP

- Better customization with appearance tab and gear dyes

- Larger planets open for exploration without instancing

- Social activities and non combat things to do in this game in form of mini-games.

- A lot more world events in the game.

I keep thinking of SOE's attempt to 'save' various MMOs (SWG in particular) and can't help but think that making game-sweeping changes only alienates the current customer base. The game is what it is: a theme park MMO built on familiar mechanics. You either like it or you don't. Don't get me wrong; there is nothing wrong with adding new features but changing the core fundamentals of this game will not, IMO, get subscriptions up.

Do you even read what ppl are saying, nobody was aking from Bioware to suddenly change this game from themepark to sandbox , ppl where just asking for features which would add spice to this game and ultimately make this game a better one .

SWG went down when SOE went with to drastic changes to that game and when they decided to make sandbox game into WoW clone game.

I keep thinking of SOE's attempt to 'save' various MMOs (SWG in particular) and can't help but think that making game-sweeping changes only alienates the current customer base. The game is what it is: a theme park MMO built on familiar mechanics. You either like it or you don't. Don't get me wrong; there is nothing wrong with adding new features but changing the core fundamentals of this game will not, IMO, get subscriptions up.

I have to agree with this. The game will most certainly have a future, whether it remains mainstream or goes underground. The core players will continue to play because they simply enjoy what the game offers. I will continue to play. This game is all *I* ever asked for in a game - to be immersed in a star wars story line in the star wars setting during some other period in the star wars timeline other than what we see in the movies. I know there are others out there like me.

You think SWTOR has way more than 30k users logged in at same time?

There's only 11 servers now. About 500 people on each fleet. lets say 500(which is being generous) in WZs at any given time. How many people do you think are leveling, in FPs or not on the fleet. And this is a AAA title.

I like the game a lot, but it doesn't have many players, and it has plenty of problems still.

Another person who seems to be unaware that the rest of the world exists, there are more than 11 servers

Lots of people are not in fleet at any given time, checks by players show that a huge proportion of players are not in fleet.

Do you even read what ppl are saying, nobody was aking from Bioware to suddenly change this game from themepark to sandbox , ppl where just asking for features which would add spice to this game and ultimately make this game a better one .

 

SWG went down when SOE went with to drastic changes to that game and when they decided to make sandbox game into WoW clone game.

Actually a lot of people are asking for game-sweeping changes. I read these forums a lot. And you pretty much restated my point so I'm assuming you agree with me.

Actually a lot of people are asking for game-sweeping changes. I read these forums a lot. And you pretty much restated my point so I'm assuming you agree with me.

I seen a lot of ppl asking for different variety of activities in this game and for adding new features and not for game sweeping changes as you say it.

Here’s the issue, and it comes down to what types of fans got attracted to this game and what they found when they got here.

The Hard Core Star Wars Fan,

Likely a refuge of the now closed SWG, they likely enjoy the story but without a more sandboxy elements, more open world feel, free flight space, chat bubbles, crafting that matters and opportunities for imaginative player driven fun, …their left disappointed and likely struggling not to hit that un-sub button.

The Bioware Fan,

These guys pick up anything with the Bioware name on it and love their story driven game play these are the guys that play Mass Effect 27 times just to see the effects of every story point. Most, by the time they get to level 50 on their first character realize this is a “Bioware Like” game but not really. The decisions you make have been so hollowed out and non-consequential…they’re just done! With an incomplete Legacy system and little news on how this may develop with little meaningful rewards for Story completions there really isn’t an endgame designed to hold their interests.

The MMO/WoW fan,

These guys are likely bored of WoW and looking for a change of scenery. Their passion is driven by leader boards, Rankings and Endgame Gear based achievements. The story bits just get in the way and their space bars are worn out by the time they hit endgame. Once in endgame they find it a too casual and support systems like player built UI mods, Leader boards, Meaningful Ranked PvP and deeper ranked endgame gear achievements leave the game feeling incomplete.

The Fanatics,

I likely fit into this category, I keep hanging on hopping that something magic is going to happen, and reality hurts. Fan sites are drying up and pod casts are falling silent. Even the ones hanging on are starting to sound cynical of the game with most if not all of the customers representatives they dealt with either let go or moving on by their own accord. So here’s hoping what’s left of the Dev team and Swtor’s funding can find the Force Power to save it from the Lava pit of obscurity.

So at this point the game just lacks an identity that’s hurting its appeal factor with all these factions of players it’s attracted. I really see only one direction it can go to try and hold on to a core player base and that’s to get more WoW like and try to compete head to head for the attention of WoW’s core market.

 

The MMO/WoW fan,

These guys are likely bored of WoW and looking for a change of scenery. Their passion is driven by leader boards, Rankings and Endgame Gear based achievements. The story bits just get in the way and their space bars are worn out by the time they hit endgame. Once in endgame they find it a too casual and support systems like player built UI mods, Leader boards, Meaningful Ranked PvP and deeper ranked endgame gear achievements leave the game feeling incomplete.

 

I really see only one direction it can go to try and hold on to a core player base and that’s to get more WoW like and try to compete head to head for the attention of WoW’s core market.

And this game will never be able to compete with WoW without adding new features which would distinguish this game from WoW enough and you know why because anyone who wants to play WoW will rather stick to original because original game is better in what it is doing than some copycat WoW clone and market is flooded with this types of games already - see Rift for reference and how that game is doing atm .

As someone who played WoW for years since vanilla and as someone who loves Bioware games I can tell you that I did come to this game hoping that this game will have a lot of its own unique features different from WoW because I got bored of playing gear grind treadmill type of games, and I know a lot of my other friends weren't even interested in this game and leaving WoW because why would they when WoW is the king in making that type of content and a lot of players have dedicated years in their characters in that game and are part of established guilds there so they dont want to leave it to just go play some lesser copycat game of that one.

Nobody is asking here for pure sandbox or replica of SWG get a clue dude .

 

But a lot of players dont want WoW 2.0 either which this game turned to be atm for anyone who reached level 50 , because whoever wants WoW wil rather go play original because who would play WoW copycat game when you can play original which is better.

 

- Players want a SPICE to this game and not another pure geargrind treadmill.

And if Bioware would mix best of both worlds , good elements of themepark games with a good elements of sandbox game would be much better and it would gain a lot more subs.

 

So besides raiding and warzones having this elements would make this game a lot better than it is now :

- RVR PVP in the game

- 3D space combat and exploration with space PVP

- Better customization with appearance tab and gear dyes

- Larger planets open for exploration without instancing

- Social activities and non combat things to do in this game in form of mini-games.

- A lot more world events in the game.

If this was WoW 2.0 I would still be subbed, this is WoW .6 at best

SWTOR will never be sandbox. PERIOD. if you want that, go play something else

Pretty sure they said the same thing about rift.

And this game will never be able to compete with WoW without adding new features which would distinguish this game from WoW enough and you know why because anyone who wants to play WoW will rather stick to original because original game is better in what it is doing than some copycat WoW clone and market is flooded with this types of games already - see Rift for reference and how that game is doing atm .

 

As someone who played WoW for years since vanilla and as someone who loves Bioware games I can tell you that I did come to this game hoping that this game will have a lot of its own unique features different from WoW because I got bored of playing gear grind treadmill type of games, and I know a lot of my other friends weren't even interested in this game and leaving WoW because why would they when WoW is the king in making that type of content and a lot of players have dedicated years in their characters in that game and are part of established guilds there so they dont want to leave it to just go play some lesser copycat game of that one.

I didn’t say it would be a successful strategy, It’s just the only path I can see them taking or even being fiscally possible. The game is tilted too far in the direction of giving the disenfranchised WoW player a home to swing it in any other direction now.

I have to agree with this. The game will most certainly have a future, whether it remains mainstream or goes underground. The core players will continue to play because they simply enjoy what the game offers. I will continue to play. This game is all *I* ever asked for in a game - to be immersed in a star wars story line in the star wars setting during some other period in the star wars timeline other than what we see in the movies. I know there are others out there like me.

There sure are. I would be one.

The net of it is, what those that are wanting "minor" tweaks to meet their definition of MMO, sandbox or otherwise, do not realize is: That change or tweak, whatever it is, is not simple and will not be enough. It will be a slippery slope. They will want more and more at the expense of all the other requests and improvements.

Think of it this way, the game is in sustaining mode already. That means that they are now trying maximize revenue by eliminating cost. There is no room for innovation or the development of new subsystems. They don't have the resources literally. So, they, BW, cater to their core audience. BW has a pretty good idea of who they are now (and not as a result of these board btw). And that's the plan. Max revenue by keeping the core happy. Accounting for attrition with promotion and previously planned updates. Minimizing cost by sticking with previously developed subsystems and modules.

So, can this game be saved? From what exactly? Population may ebb and flow but I believe SWTOR has found their core. It's not the sandbox builders or the raiding elite. It is a more mainstream audience that like it or not, will keep this game going for years to come.

Everytime I hear people talk about this they always say "SWG was like this and SWTOR should also be like this". The game engine will not even allow for it. Most people complaining about no sandbox options are from SWG and miss SWG. They want this to be SWG2. It is not ever going to be that. There is no sense in cluttering up the forums asking for things that can never happen.

Wierd thing i always hear is when any type of customization in the game gets talked about or player housing people automatically jump on swg. But do you know why................ its because swg was the only mmo in a long time up until recently to have those things.

SWG wasnt shnarf because it had those things, it was shnarf because the graphics were pap, the animations were pap and the development team behind it drove it into the ground and steared by smeedly. Nearly all of the playerbase were driven from swg by him because how could you invest in a game when they couldnt stop totally changing the core design of it.

Wierd thing i always hear is when any type of customization in the game gets talked about or player housing people automatically jump on swg. But do you know why................ its because swg was the only mmo in a long time up until recently to have those things.

 

SWG wasnt shnarf because it had those things, it was shnarf because the graphics were pap, the animations were pap and the development team behind it drove it into the ground and steared by smeedly. Nearly all of the playerbase were driven from swg by him because how could you invest in a game when they couldnt stop totally changing the core design of it.

Which is exactly why they shouldnt change it. The core design is what most of us like. Change that and people might jump ship. Why not ask for reasonable changes that are possible? Also UO had housing etc long before SWG. Also EQ2 has awesome housing.