Is having 400 crit rating way too high for this build?

Yes that is crazy high no spec or class will need that much crit rating. Drop it down to at least 250 and if you want to run with a high crit do not go over 350. I believe 350 is a good number to start. The more you get a "feel" for your energy regen, then you can lower it to your preference. In the videos and in the HM TFB parses I was running with ~261 Crit Rating.

paowee

 

very nice UI. i have something similar, but in the mid i have the team bars. Your UI however focuses the eye attention in the mid screen which is very good.

Glad you liked it ! It keeps my eye centered on the most important part of my skill bar, the long DPS cooldowns. Especially Orbital Strike. I came across it over at http://www.swtorui.com/addons.php and made some tweaks of me own.

Omguhsniper has been defeated OH NOES! grats on the rotations:)

Thanks! I had some valuable input from Wales [Gunslinger] (in my References) as well. He stressed,

1. "You keep forgetting to use Shatter Shot!"

2. Orbital -> Ambush to push the parses on the dummy

3. 350 Crit Rating to name a few.

Stay tuned! I will be working on a RAID VIDEO of the rotations in action. I am thinking:

1. Orbital Burst DPS during HM TFB Kephess The Undying

2. Orbital Strike with no Adrenaline Probe for NiM Firebrand and Stormcaller.

3. Dealing with Target Switches in HM Terror From Beyond - Tunneling Tentacle phase.

Any suggestions? Perhaps other bosses or encounters? There are some fights however that are too taxing on Hybrid due to target switches that I just field respec to Lethality.. like Dread Guard Council and Operator IX.

Is this currently the max possible PvE DPS build? Can a flawless MM rotation keep up with this, or full lethality?

Hi NoTomorrow. I can't say for Marksman since I rarely raid with it but as far as Lethality vs Lethality/Engineering.. I'd have to say it depends on the fight. The more you need to be mobile and the more target switches there are, the better Full Lethality will be. Unlike Full Lethality which has Lingering Toxins once your DoTs wear off they are gone forever and you just lost ~6000-7200 damage if you weren't able to finish your 2nd Cull.

In a fight like Operator IX where you are in the middle, adds will die before your DoTs, Cull and EP (Cluster bombs) last for their full duration and that is wasted energy/damage as well.

Stand still fights like T&Z, Kephess The Undying, Writhing Horror are fights where Hybrid will shine because you area able to stack all your DoTs and sit down and channel.

I'll be posting soon some numbers / pictures / a video on the DPS Burst Potential of Hybrid when every single DoT and ability is ticking on your target and compare it to its Full Lethality version.

Yes that is crazy high no spec or class will need that much crit rating. Drop it down to at least 250 and if you want to run with a high crit do not go over 350. I believe 350 is a good number to start. The more you get a "feel" for your energy regen, then you can lower it to your preference. In the videos and in the HM TFB parses I was running with ~261 Crit Rating.

 

 

 

Glad you liked it ! It keeps my eye centered on the most important part of my skill bar, the long DPS cooldowns. Especially Orbital Strike. I came across it over at http://www.swtorui.com/addons.php and made some tweaks of me own.

I think i am the worst offender here, i am sitting with 41% crit chance buffed 699, bonus ranged damage (with 2 warhero power relics). No idea how much DPS i am loosing. Do you have any parsers with everything same but different crit/power stats? I am curious how much it affects the DPS.

I stopped doing PvE stuff when 1,4 came out, in fact i haven't even seen the TFB. And PvP has kinda different stat priorities, in PvE i can get away with minimizing endurance, in pvp i just go for some remote balance.

I think i am the worst offender here, i am sitting with 41% crit chance buffed 699, bonus ranged damage (with 2 warhero power relics). No idea how much DPS i am loosing. Do you have any parsers with everything same but different crit/power stats? I am curious how much it affects the DPS. I stopped doing PvE stuff when 1,4 came out, in fact i haven't even seen the TFB. And PvP has kinda different stat priorities, in PvE i can get away with minimizing endurance, in pvp i just go for some remote balance.

http://i.imgur.com/2YOte.jpg My current non BiS gear/stats. Will create a mrrobot profile and post it here.

been playing with this spec all day with outstanding success my only question is why razor rounds over experimental explosives?

Razor Rounds Increases the critical chance of Cull and Series of Shots by [4 / 8]% It buffs your Cull and SoS 2 important abilities in your rotation. Cull is a big part of your rotation around ~20% of your total damage done where as Experimental Explosives seems nice since it makes your Frag Grenade and Orbital hit harder, these abilities make up a little portion of your DPS.

aye and i understand that but i feel like 30% extra damage on OS crits and Corrosive grenade which is 100% up and also effected by experimental explosives which may be worth more than your cull critting 8% mroe or doing 6% more damage(from marksman tree) idk i think maybe its worth a look is all.

Let me add that to my to do list and ill post you my results when im done

aye and i understand that but i feel like 30% extra damage on OS crits and Corrosive grenade which is 100% up and also effected by experimental explosives which may be worth more than your cull critting 8% mroe or doing 6% more damage(from marksman tree) idk i think maybe its worth a look is all.

Experimental explosive doesn't increase the damage of Corrosive grenade, and the 8% extra critical is needed for this spec. Cull ticks don't get the 12% DoT buff. If you want harder hitting Orbital Strikes, you should go 0/18/23 instead of 2/18/21. There are fights where you'll want that extra AoE surge (Kephess trandolsan phase), but for most fights a 2/16/23 build will do around 50 dps more.

"Cut Down" in leth tree offers a 6% crit chance increase on Cull, SoS, and OS. Combined with "Razor Rounds" with adds an extra 8% crit chance of Cull and SoS. this equals a 14% crit gain( i.e. 40% crit Base + 14% from talents = 54% crit on Cull and SOS) The talent "Lethal Dose" offers an increase on the crit chance of all periodic effects( i.e. CG,CD,and IP) by 12%, similar to the name its called it would not have any effect on Cull, due to the following:

1) Cull doesn't do periodic damage it has a cast time and is quite similar to SoS.

2) Cull is not a DOT...

54% crit w/talents isn't bad, all DOT effects receive a 12% boost making them have a 52% crit chance.

Seems Legit.

As for the 18/23 build the 30% boost works for orbital, TG, and SB(aoe shooting move) the damage increase is more for the engineering tree (IMO) due to that tree is more AoE friendly. But mostly for the Plasma Probe. Thusly unless you intend on only using Orbital and TG alot then that build would be less DPS then the 2/16/23 build.

AoE is nice but you aren't going to use it all the time... and you already have the most powerful AoE in the game...

My 2 Cents :cool:

Actually playing a Smuggler on a European server, so I'm trying to translate both abilities and languages ;-)

 

The first reason you want IP at the beginning is that it can serve as a visual counter. When IP comes becomes available, it means that it is time cast CG and CD again.

 

IP duration: 18 seconds

CG duration: 21 seconds

CD duration: 18 seconds

 

IP - CG - (RS) - CD rotation will make it so that both CG and CD will end at the same time.

Shouldn't you generally apply the longest ticking dot first? i.e. First CG then IP and then CD?

I find like this i can make sure all three Dots are still up through the whole length of the second Cull channelling, regardless of how many Rifle Shots I have inserted to save energy or other abilities I might have inserted e.g. due to target swaps and then returning to the boss...

Actually playing a Smuggler on a European server, so I'm trying to translate both abilities and languages ;-)

 

 

Shouldn't you generally apply the longest ticking dot first? i.e. First CG then IP and then CD?

 

I find like this i can make sure all three Dots are still up through the whole length of the second Cull channelling, regardless of how many Rifle Shots I have inserted to save energy or other abilities I might have inserted e.g. due to target swaps and then returning to the boss...

IP won't affect Cull, so most people will use it first to maximize the amount of time that CG and CD are up together, allowing them more room for energy management and Rifle Shots. There is some debate as to whether the Gunslinger version is acting the same, or whether it's acting as an extra DoT (*only* when Vital Shot or Shrap Bomb wear off, it never works as a third DoT), but it's really a non-issue since Cull/Wounding should only be used with CG and CD up anyway.

Updated:

VI. OPS TRAINING DUMMY PARSES

What is good about the Lethality / Engineering spec is that it covers ALL the basics rules and rotations you need to follow if you had went Full Lethality. Learn the Hybrid spec first and you learn Full Lethality at the same time. Two birds with one stone! It covers the basic CG - CD - Cull rotation and makes you a master of your energy bar. Learn Hybrid and then try out Full Lethality once again and I promise you it will be so much more easier to play!

Once you are ready, Combat Log, Mox and all, begin the fight by casting:

OS - AMBUSH. then put the following debuffs

CG - CD - SS. Immediately pop your Adrenal, Relic and TA then use

Cull - EP. After using Cull and Explosive Probe hit ADRENALINE PROBE followed by

IP - SoS. Hit your Laze Target buff and then do a

LS - Cull.

That will be your ~opener rotation for both Hybrid and ~Full Lethality. At my current gear it usually puts out at the very least 3000 DPS. The point of this opener, which is also called the

To break it down:

1. Begin with

2. Continue for 5 minutes, with

3. When AP becomes available repeat a

Note: You can go past 5 minutes if you want to end your parse with a MAX DPS Rotation. Ending the fight, for example with the last tick of Orbital Strike will raise and bump up your average DPS.

Some things that will lower your average DPS include using Rifle Shot ~3 times in a row (happens when you mess up your regen and spend too much time in the sub 60 bracket, having your DoTs wear off (happens once in a while... , having your DoTs wear off while channeling Cull, and not using ORBITAL STRIKE everytime it becomes available. You need to use it even if you don't have AP / TA available. With these tips I have helped 2 friends who are new to the Sniper raise their DPS by ~150-200! Let me know if it works for you!

Updated the Intro:

Both the Lethality and Engineering Tree in the current game are primarily DoT skill trees. Playing the Lethality and Hybrid Specs involve putting down DoTs on your target (at the very least 2 DoTs as Lethality, and at the very most, 6 DoTs as Hybrid) and then staying in cover and chaneling abilities for ~9 seconds and then re-dotting again. If you are looking to push charts, the DoT spec sniper can do just the trick. Note that Lethality and Lethality / Engineering both revolve around CG - CD - Cull. As such this guide can also help Lethality Snipers with rotations and hopefully learn something new as well. The intent of this guide is to help Snipers become more familiar with some PVE rotations required to play the DoT specs of their class: Full Lethality and the Lethality / Engineering Hybrid.

Added:

ToFN DPS Leaderboards to show how much Hybrid can put out single target.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=534251

=======================================

COMING SOON:

Advanced Lethality / Engineering rotation

Videos of the rotations in Operations

=======================================

First time we did a 16man Asa Hm today. I was using the hybrid build shown in this guide on the first 2 bosses.. If youre interested, i posted the result below. Top50 dmg for all 4 bosses pn Torparse, though the dreadguards probably wont be counted, cause i died right before the boss .

http://www.torparse.com/a/100297

This is my current build:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3e44625c-16e5-4308-a1ad-f497eb72ec74

First time we did a 16man Asa Hm today. I was using the hybrid build shown in this guide on the first 2 bosses.. If youre interested, i posted the result below. Top50 dmg for all 4 bosses pn Torparse, though the dreadguards probably wont be counted, cause i died right before the boss .

http://www.torparse.com/a/100297

This is my current build:

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/3e44625c-16e5-4308-a1ad-f497eb72ec74

This is your Council Fight as Hybrid http://www.torparse.com/a/100297. It looks like you started with IP - CG - CD then Cull. >__<! You should always try to begin with the MAX DPS Rotation as shown in the video below. This applies to both Lethality and Lethality / Engineering specs. Also you used Explosive Probe every cooldown so that's good. But you did not use Orbital Strike at all? That's one of our best DPS abilities and should be used every time it's up.

Start the fight with:

 

Continue with your sustainable rotation and use OS every cooldown:

Thanks for the info. I'll keep practicing with the spec and will try it on some of the 1-target operation bosses after I get it down. Here are my stats; I'm open to comments:

 

Unbuffed with no stims.

 

Dmg: 1084-1185

Bonus dmg: 629.9

Acc 99.89

Crit::36.49 (Crit Rating: 384)

Crit Mult: 75.82

The crit rating jumped up after I switched out the crystals in my rifle and knife. Perhaps I'll swap out one item modification piece. I believe there is a +surge, +power mod. That seems to be the best mod I could put in the mix now. As for what gear I'm using, I'm gradually upgrading everything to DG levels.

stuff

I partially i agree with you. You should only use the max dps rotation only when there is there no risk the tank losing aggro. For example when we were doing TfB the tank wasnt able to hold aggro on the tentacles when i was trying to do max dps.

As for why i didnt use OS. Try to read the buffs from the ciphas and kelsara. If you do dmg to them, while heirad is still alive, they do more dmg. Our tanks attack heirad, after they got aggro on their bosses. And besides, we were no where near hitting enrage timers on the bosses, so there was really no point in trying to do the absolut best dmg i possible.

I partially i agree with you. You should only use the max dps rotation only when there is there no risk the tank losing aggro. For example when we were doing TfB the tank wasnt able to hold aggro on the tentacles when i was trying to do max dps.

As for why i didnt use OS. Try to read the buffs from the ciphas and kelsara. If you do dmg to them, while heirad is still alive, they do more dmg. Our tanks attack heirad, after they got aggro on their bosses. And besides, we were no where near hitting enrage timers on the bosses, so there was really no point in trying to do the absolut best dmg i possible.

I understand. The way we do this fight is that the other bosses are pulled away from Heirad far enough so that the operative and the sniper can use their Orbital at the start. Me and the op casts our Orbital then the Ciphas and Keisara are pulled over to the sides.

Did you prefer Hybrid over Lethality for this fight?

In 16man hybrid is pretty viable. I was always on the boss and didnt have to switch to the adds during the 3rd phase because we had enough dd for that.

This goes for twh as well. I pretty much only attacked the boss and the small adds, didnt have to attack the jelouse male, thanks to the high amount of dds. If i had to switch targets often i probably would get into energy trouble.

Hybrid should also work really well on kephess, unlesss you are on orb duty, wich i wasnt today. Unfortunately i forgot to respec after 3rd boss.

IP won't affect Cull, so most people will use it first to maximize the amount of time that CG and CD are up together, allowing them more room for energy management and Rifle Shots. There is some debate as to whether the Gunslinger version is acting the same, or whether it's acting as an extra DoT (*only* when Vital Shot or Shrap Bomb wear off, it never works as a third DoT), but it's really a non-issue since Cull/Wounding should only be used with CG and CD up anyway.

I'm pretty sure for Gunslingers Shock Charge (= IP) does count as a Dot for Wounding Shots (Cull) and it does also add to the other two dots, since all my parses show three bleeding effects: Shock Charge (= IP), Vital Shot (= CD) and Shrap Bomb (= CG). They have about the same percentage of overall damage (which seems logical as I always apply them together and "use" them up with two Wounding Shots (Cull) in every rotation.

I'm now in the office so I can't upload a log, but in German Forums there has been a lot of discussion about this and the majority tends to think this is actually not intended i.e. a bug, since the tooltip does not describe Shock Charge (IP) as a bleeding effect (opposed to Vital Shot (CD) and Shrap Bomb(CG)), but parses always show otherwise. You can also actually see the effect on your opponent's health bar, when you use Wounding Shots (Cull) with just Vital Shot (CD) and Shrap Bomb (CG) on the target and then do the same with Shock Charge (IP) on the target additionally: You can clearly see the increase in health bar melting speed during the Wounding Shots (Cull) channeling :-)

I'm curious, why you say Shock Charge (IP) never works as an additional Dot for slingers, when the other two are already active, because if that were true, the bleeding damage from Shock Charge should be significantly lower in my parses than that of the other two Dots, but as I said, the three are roughly equal. Can you maybe share a link, from where you got that information?

This difference simplifys the rotation for Slingers btw, since you just always apply the three dots first, then use sabotage charge (EP) to regain energy with Wounding Shots (Cull), then do Speedshot (SoS) and then depending on wether Cool Head (AP) is ready you either go for XS-Freighter (OS) plus Cool Head (AP) or 1-2 Flurrys (RS) and then finish by the second Wounding Shots (Cull).

By then the three dots will have expired and you start over.

The main target is to keep all three dots active until the second Wounding Shots (Cull) ist finished, so there's not that much room for variation, especially since energy management is even more difficult here. You basically insert Flurry (RS), whenever you're under 70, except when Sabotage Charge (EP) is ready, because if you use it before Wounding Shots (Cull) and Speedhot (SoS) you can go to 60 energy and still activate Wounding Shots (Cull), you'll be alright by the time Speedhot (Sos) is finished.

Since Sabotage Charge (EP) won't be ready for every wounding shots (Cull) you replace it with Flurry (RS), when it's not. Rule is, use Sabotage Charge (EP) before Wounding Shots (Cull) for Max Energy Regen, even if Wounding Shots (Cull= comes off CD some split seconds earlier (which tends to happen a lot when you go through this rotation severall times over).

As in the rotation described in this thread you replace Speedhot - Flurry - (Flurry) (SoS - RS - (RS)) by XS-FReighter (OS) - Flurry (RS), whenever Freighter (OS) comes off Cooldown but Cool Head (AP) is not ready yet.

If I have enough energy I also replace the two Flurrys (RSs) before the second Wounding Shots (Cull) by either Aimed Shot (Ambush) oder Lucky Charged Burst (Lazed Snipe).

Thoughts?

I'm pretty sure for Gunslingers Shock Charge (= IP) does count as a Dot for Wounding Shots (Cull) and it does also add to the other two dots, since all my parses show three bleeding effects: Shock Charge (= IP), Vital Shot (= CD) and Shrap Bomb (= CG). They have about the same percentage of overall damage (which seems logical as I always apply them together and "use" them up with two Wounding Shots (Cull) in every rotation.

 

I'm now in the office so I can't upload a log, but in German Forums there has been a lot of discussion about this and the majority tends to think this is actually not intended i.e. a bug, since the tooltip does not describe Shock Charge (IP) as a bleeding effect (opposed to Vital Shot (CD) and Shrap Bomb(CG)), but parses always show otherwise. You can also actually see the effect on your opponent's health bar, when you use Wounding Shots (Cull) with just Vital Shot (CD) and Shrap Bomb (CG) on the target and then do the same with Shock Charge (IP) on the target additionally: You can clearly see the increase in health bar melting speed during the Wounding Shots (Cull) channeling :-)

 

I'm curious, why you say Shock Charge (IP) never works as an additional Dot for slingers, when the other two are already active, because if that were true, the bleeding damage from Shock Charge should be significantly lower in my parses than that of the other two Dots, but as I said, the three are roughly equal. Can you maybe share a link, from where you got that information?

Just to clarify one thing from the start to make sure we're on the same page, but when I say that Shock Charge works or doesn't work as an additional DoT, I only mean in terms of Wounding Shots. As a standalone DoT it works fine every time at full damage.

Anyway, most of the information I could find on the English forums is somewhat outdated, so I just went ahead and did a very brief/simple parse upload testing it myself.

Sniper: http://www.tortools.com/?player=%40Acceptance&display=damageDone&file=15716&ability=all&encounter=0

Gunslinger: http://www.tortools.com/?player=%40Synavix&display=damageDone&file=15717&ability=all&encounter=0

(Meant to use another parse upload site that's cleaner, but forgot most have a rule against too short of parses)

Each "encounter" is simply DoTs + 2 Culls or Wounding Shots, repeated 3 times each. Encounters should be in this order (in reverse, actually, because of how this site lists them. Last encounter is listed on "top"), although I may have messed up the order/number on my gunslinger:

- Corrosive Dart / Vital Shot only

- Corrosive Grenade / Shrap Bomb only

- Int Probe / Shock Charge only

- Corrosive Dart /Vital Shot + Int Probe / Shock Charge

- Corrosive Grenade / Shrap Bomb + Int Probe / Shock Charge

- Corrosive Dart / Vital Shot + Corrosive Grenade / Shrap Bomb ("normal" lethality dots)

- CD/VS + CG/SB + IP/SC (all three)

I removed my proc relic from my sniper to give a cleaner parse, but the damage is a little skewed based off of crits anyway. What you really want to look at is the number of times Cull or Wounding Shots tick.

In the sniper parses:

CD and CG only each parsed to 12 Culls (3 baseline, 3 from *one* DoT, times 2 culls).

Interrogation Probe only parsed to 6 Culls (3 baseline, none from DoT, times 2 culls).

CD with IP and CG with IP each parsed to 12 Culls, same as when only one DoT was used.

CD and CG together (as well as CD + CG + IP) parsed to 18 Culls (3 baseline, 6 from *two* DoTs, times 2 culls).

At no point did I parse 24 Culls, as would be expected if IP worked as a dot (3 baseline + 3 CG + 3 CD + 3 IP, times 2 culls).

In the gunslinger parses:

VS, SB, and SC all parsed to 18 Culls (3 baseline, 3 offhand, 3 from *one* DoT, times 2 wounding shots).

All variations of 2 DoTs (both including and excluding SC) parsed to 24 Culls (3 baseline, 3 offhand, 6 from *two* DoTs, times 2 wounding shots).

However, with all 3 DoTs up, although you would expect 30 Culls, you still only see 24, meaning that WS caps out at 2 DoTs regardless.

So final verdict, IP *never* counts as a DoT for Cull, and SC only counts as a DoT for wounding shots when you have 2 or less DoTs present. A fairly distinct advantage for PvP when there are cleanses and rotations are sloppy, but in ideal PvE rotations it's less of an issue, although might lead to some interesting low-energy strategies.