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Commanding Legacy and mirror classes

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Commanding Legacy and mirror classes
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IshtarScorpio's Avatar


IshtarScorpio
10.10.2017 , 04:12 PM | #81
Maybe if we gave out some free loot [/sarcasm].
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PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
10.10.2017 , 04:16 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:
  • Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didn’t) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didn’t realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasn’t caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, that’s on me.

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

Thanks!

-eric
Eric -
There is a pretty HUGE difference between having 4 characters at 300 (the verbage you guys have used 100% of the time when talking about this) and having all 4 base classes at 300. Your after the fact "clarity" is not helpful. Telling us to enjoy our boost which probably won't apply to 95% of the people who play your game because they don't play every single base class is a joke.

If you can't manage to give people a boost based on the number of characters they have at 300, regardless of the base class, then you shouldn't have bothered to code this piece of garbage. It was a complete waste of development time and not helpful to really anybody.

And I say this as someone who has 100% boost because I DO play all base classes and did grind all of them to rank 300, back when the CXP rates for dailies was what you guys called "drastically high" and to the rest of us seemed just reasonable enough to get us to do them. But even that grew stale.

This is a crock. You guys probably should consider some other form of legacy perk that actually DOES give bonuses to people - because this is NOT it.
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Alssaran's Avatar


Alssaran
10.10.2017 , 04:21 PM | #83
Quote:
I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works.
Eric,

we understand perfectly on how the perk works. Most of us do so, anyway. That's why there is this frustration.

Quote:
When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors).
Full stop right here. It wasn't "fairly general" at all. It was entirely detailed and thoroughly explained how the perk worked. There was nothing "fairly general" about it. There was a detailed explanation on what the perk is, what the perk does, how you can unlock the perk and how the percentages are accumulated. You did not add two things to the roadmap though:

1. The fact that each of the characters has to be of a different base class that can't be a mirror.

2. That the perk does not work at or above legacy level 300, which essentially only makes it worthwhile for leveling more and more alts.

This is not keeping it "fairly general", but taking out important requirements that can change hundreds of hours of conscious gameplay and class choice decisions. Both of those completely change how this perk is used. Whereas previously the perk could have worked for usage on a main character too, it now completely invalidates the perk for anything of the sort. The way you communicated vs. the way you designed this perk completely contradict each other in more than just "fairly general assumptions." Essentially, the perk is only valid if you love leveling tons of characters through GC. Apparently Keith loves doing that, but most of us don't. For everyone who wants to focus on a main character at GC 300, that perk is virtually useless when compared to what we were meant to know, which was that it would "double our GCXP gain if we had four characters at 300."

Whatever possible technical limitation there was on base classes, there was none about having it apply only to pre-300 characters. That is some pretty important information for anyone considering to get the perk. As a communication sciences student, there is a pretty big gap of understanding and reason between "You get 100% bonus GCXP" and "You get 100% bonus GCXP below the max level." The later one completely invalidates the perk for people who want to focus on a main after the four characters.

Previously, people could level three other characters to return to their main and gain more GCXP. Now that the patch hit, people have to see that them leveling one or two more characters for that purpose might be in vain because the perk doesn't apply to their main at 300, nor does it work if the classes are mirrored.

As for the technical issues: I have no access to the game's code, and thus I can only make some general assumptions, but I assume that the only way to count the legacy percentages was to tie it to a similar system than the legendary flair system, whereas the flag for each class is set. Even then I do not understand why you couldn't use base classes. It'd be one thing to claim that you cannot distinguish between Sentinels and Guardians since you have to use the base classes, but you clearly can as the system can recognize it.

You actually added an achievement that proves the system can recognize it. It's called "Resolute Commander." And, obviously, all the achievements tied to it:

Commanding Knight: Reached Command Rank 300 with a Jedi Knight character.

Commanding Warrior: Reached Command Rank 300 with a Sith Warrior character.

The system can clearly differentiate between two of the same base classes here. As I am not awarded the warrior achievement when I am logging into my GCL 300 guardian (Knight), the system can clearly differentiate when the mirror class on the other faction doesn't have the appropriate command level, and it can see when a single base class reaches the appropriate command level to grant the achievement.

While this wouldn't necessarily solve the issue of the same base class, it would solve the issue of mirror classes. That means people who, for example, only main force user classes could be granted the perk because the system could see that their four base classes are different. You still couldn't play four assassins to get the bonus, seeing the system couldn't flag them, but you could at least play two classes and their mirrors.

I'd like your software engineers to explain that one to us, because as someone who finished training as a software engineer before going into communication sciences, I really only see a partial issue here.

And what limitation causes the perk only to apply to pre-300 characters and be unusable for anyone who wants to focus on a main after finishing four characters? I am curious about that one too.

Quote:
The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.
No, I will not. In fact, I think me and quite a few other players are tired of the hamstring that is GC. This community has voiced their issues with GC time and time again, yet the system and it's associated perks and mechanics keep pestering us month after month. I have no intention to rank up a sixth, seventh or eight character through the GC system beyond the four mains I already have.

This perk is virtually useless for people who don't like to level up dozens of characters through GC and pretend the endless grind for more and more GC ranks on characters you will never actively play is fun.

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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.10.2017 , 04:21 PM | #84
What complete crap Eric.
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SebastiaanZ's Avatar


SebastiaanZ
10.10.2017 , 04:23 PM | #85
I really hope they change this soon ... not that I am to bothered by it, but it does piss me off. I have an Assassin, a Sentinel and a Mercenary at rank 300, I was at 203 for a Juggernaut ... so thats 75%. I hoped that I would just benefit from this week to get my Jug to 300 and get the full boost, but this is an UNACCEPTABLE announcement and needs to be changed ASAP. I don't ask this I demand this this time. If this was intended from the moment Keith said something, you knew and you had the obligation to tell us this beforehand not after the patch was delivered. This is bad management Eric, once again.

First the CXP reduced now this BS, are you deliberately trying to piss off the playerbase?
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orangenee's Avatar


orangenee
10.10.2017 , 04:27 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
What complete crap Eric.
You've even upset TUXs with this nonsense Eric.

What is the exact reason for this ever so slightly convoluted mess of a perk?
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xomnow's Avatar


xomnow
10.10.2017 , 04:31 PM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Alssaran View Post
Well thought out, well reasoned, and eloquent statement.
I didn't want to quote the whole thing Alssaran, but I wanted to say thank you for saying a lot of what I want/wanted to say, but am currently too... pissy to say it as well and as clearly.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one - and as one who has many times many 300s (but lo, just 25%!) - I thank you for speaking for me.

And Eric - man, sorry you're in this spot with us all focusing on you (I include myself in the mob, to be sure!. I will defend you in that - you're just doing your job here. But... I dunno, I wish I could see if you're shaking your head like so many of us are too.

ufarax's Avatar


ufarax
10.10.2017 , 04:32 PM | #88
On a happier note, Star Citizen will be ready soon.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
10.10.2017 , 04:38 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by orangenee View Post
You've even upset TUXs with this nonsense Eric.

What is the exact reason for this ever so slightly convoluted mess of a perk?
More than you know. I have given Keith the benefit of the doubt at every freaking turn...but this is one too many. I'm livid, and I will make sure every player I talk to knows how freaking upset I am. I may have been a critic on the forums, but in-game, I have defended this game and this company every day...never again.
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Costello's Avatar


Costello
10.10.2017 , 04:39 PM | #90
It seems like the response to the miscommunication is suck it up buttercup, our bad it will probably happen in the future as well. I'm suspecting that people will lose their names and that will be due to a miscommunication.

People that played the game enough to get multiple characters to 300 probably aren't the best people to annoy unless the plan is to drive players away. As it stands:

Today you have managed to annoy people that are fairly invested in the game, by in short misleading them.
Come the server merge you will annoy people that aren't currently subscribed as when they come back they will have lost their character name and likely have to use special characters or bastardize it with extra letters.
A serious lack of content this year along with nerfs has not given players much to do.

So unless the plan is to make as many people feed up with Bioware and SWTOR it doesn't seem like this is a good move while there seems little that can be done at this point indifference seems some what less than people hoped for.