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Commanding Legacy and mirror classes

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Commanding Legacy and mirror classes
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Transcendent's Avatar


Transcendent
10.11.2017 , 01:56 AM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works.
So now I've gathered my thoughts, I'm going to reply to your post properly and calmly. There is no confusion Eric, we were specifically informed the perk would work based on how many characters had reached CR300. That's an important distinction to be making here as the time it takes to level one character to 70, and then to gain CR300 is considerable when you factor in the CXP rates that still are not where the players feel they should be.

We all totally understand that miscommunication happens, yet somehow this very important distinction was missed. That's disappointing from a customer perspective when we've seen commitments from you guys that you would communicate better than you had been. This is nowhere near the level of communication that is expected from you, do you honestly think this is good enough? Are you really achieving that level of communication that you committed to?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:
  • Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%
So this isn't what was indicated. As a reminder, from the roadmap;

Quote:
Legacy Perk Ė For each character that reaches Command Rank 300, we will automatically add an additional 25% bonus CXP to your entire Legacy up to a maximum of 100%. You do need to purchase the initial 25% perk, but the additional 75% will be free. And, YES, this Perk is retroactive, so you will immediately benefit once we deliver United Forces Foundation.
There isn't anything in there about mirror classes is there? In fact there isn't anything in there about classes, is clearly states each character. So the question remains as to why this wasn't implemented as per the road map, or why this change to the road map (subject to change) wasn't communicated in advance? Why was this left until after the patch was implemented Eric? Again, this comes down to not delivering on the communication with the players. Is that really good enough?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didnít) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration.
Subject to change is how I personally view the road maps. The road map is an insight, the details of which can change and should be communicated in advance of those changes being made. To put it more succinctly to you, if you value your players feedback, then you should be communicating more frequently on things like this and gauging where the players temperature is to any changes to the road map.

Frustrating your players by not communicating is possibly not the best course of action, wouldn't you agree?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors).
I read technical limitations as developer incompetence. I don't mean that in a horrible way, however when we have multiple achievements that can track class progress, although that is a likely a separate system to legacy perks, I see this as a limitation on developer time being available to implement a legacy perk properly.

The question is, even though this is likely a separate system we have legacy perks available for each class based on companion affections, could that not have been adapted in some manner to allow multiple classes (including mirrors). Is it simply a case that the developer resources are not in place to be able to code a system correctly into the base game? Either way, it looks like developer resources are heavily restricted, I have to ask why this is the case?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didnít realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasnít caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, thatís on me.
While I appreciate the apology Eric, the question moving forward is what are you going to do to ensure that this doesn't occur in the future? We've seen this issue with multiple items being missed from patch notes, you've indicated that it wouldn't happen in the future, yet here we are again? I suggest that you have a process in place that prevents this from happening. So what are you going to do to remedy this from happening in the future? The expectations the players have on you communicating clearly and effectively simply are not being met in this area, and it's disappointing to see it re-occuring.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

Thanks!

-eric
This last part really just leaves me speechless, it comes across as insensitive Eric (intended or not).

Quote:
ranking through Galactic Command and upgrading your gear has remained controversial.
Do you honestly think everyone is enjoying ranking through Galactic Command? Don't answer that, the road map has that covered.

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Krazhez's Avatar


Krazhez
10.11.2017 , 02:01 AM | #172
The existing perk only worked on characters below 300, considering that, and Keith said it would stack on the existing perk, I expected that part.
The mirrored class thing I didn't expect. I don't know what's with you guys giving us a general statement, and knowing people are going to go crazy grinding, whether it be leveling up a bunch of toons to 300 or grinding umbara. It's starting to feel like you guys do this on purpose. Make your numbers look good. Doesn't seem like an oversight.

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
10.11.2017 , 02:15 AM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by Krazhez View Post
The existing perk only worked on characters below 300, considering that, and Keith said it would stack on the existing perk, I expected that part.
The mirrored class thing I didn't expect. I don't know what's with you guys giving us a general statement, and knowing people are going to go crazy grinding, whether it be leveling up a bunch of toons to 300 or grinding umbara. It's starting to feel like you guys do this on purpose. Make your numbers look good. Doesn't seem like an oversight.
It was the same thing when they started explaining GC before it went live.

They explained how often you'd get crates and people were like, ok that's not so bad.
Then they explained you'd get only gear to for your class and that threw people off.
Oh and then they explained not every crate would have a good piece of gear in it with set bonuss. That ticked people off more.
Then it went live and we found out what the drop rates were.

It's just one disappointment after another. You'd think they'd learn from that sort of thing, but here we go again. People start thinking it's going to be alright and BOOM! BW pulls a dead rabbit out of their hat.

They really have a way of ruining their own good ideas and not tell us so we get the bad surprises after we got excited about it. End result: we're not excited and actually angry about yet another vital omission.

I'm not saying that this was on purpose, but there is such a thing as the lie of omission. And rather than looking at whether or not it was intended, I want BW to think about what the effects are of such omissions. Because regardless whether there is an internal communication problem or it was intentional, the effect is rather the same.

Clearly it's a no-brainer that this was something that needed to be explained right away and not left as an unwelcome surprise. I mean, I get you guys can't win a lot of the time, but sabotaging your easy wins ...that I just don't get. You had a chance at goodwill with the players and the restriction itself wouldn't have changed that. But letting believe there was no restriction and then putting it into place, that's just not very smart really.
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SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
10.11.2017 , 02:31 AM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by Lowarro View Post
If someone has 0 characters to 300, but purchased this perk (before this update it was just a flat 25%) do they lose the 25% they already paid for?
No, because you couldn't buy it except on a rank 300 character. (That is, you had to rank up to 300 and then on THAT character, you had to buy the perk to benefit your non-300s.)
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DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
10.11.2017 , 02:35 AM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by Tsillah View Post
It was the same thing when they started explaining GC before it went live.

They explained how often you'd get crates and people were like, ok that's not so bad.
Then they explained you'd get only gear to for your class and that threw people off.
Oh and then they explained not every crate would have a good piece of gear in it with set bonuss. That ticked people off more.
Then it went live and we found out what the drop rates were.

It's just one disappointment after another. You'd think they'd learn from that sort of thing, but here we go again. People start thinking it's going to be alright and BOOM! BW pulls a dead rabbit out of their hat.

They really have a way of ruining their own good ideas and not tell us so we get the bad surprises after we got excited about it. End result: we're not excited and actually angry about yet another vital omission.

I'm not saying that this was on purpose, but there is such a thing as the lie of omission. And rather than looking at whether or not it was intended, I want BW to think about what the effects are of such omissions. Because regardless whether there is an internal communication problem or it was intentional, the effect is rather the same.

Clearly it's a no-brainer that this was something that needed to be explained right away and not left as an unwelcome surprise. I mean, I get you guys can't win a lot of the time, but sabotaging your easy wins ...that I just don't get. You had a chance at goodwill with the players and the restriction itself wouldn't have changed that. But letting believe there was no restriction and then putting it into place, that's just not very smart really.
As you pointed out this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again at some point it stops being coincidence and starts being intentional. At this point Iím strongly starting to believe they are intentionally trying to upset their remaining player base.
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PennyAnn's Avatar


PennyAnn
10.11.2017 , 02:40 AM | #176
Quote: Originally Posted by Glzmo View Post
Thanks for this. The situation is simply inacceptable, and we're already loosing players due to this already!

Considering of what you communicated before and how it really works, I propose the following changes to the perk in a hotfix (read within the next week, not in a month or two!):
  • Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +100%
  • Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +100%
  • Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +100%
  • Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +100%
This will ensure that everyone gets their promised +100% and actually make the perk really useful by going up to a fun +400% CXP (let's face it, 100% is still peanuts with the low CXP payouts for quests, etc.) for those that invest the time to grind up all classes. Still not ideal, as ideally you would get the bonus per character, but I think it's a good compromise that would show goodwill on your part, make players happy,and encourage them to play more.
^^
Yes, hotfix! Immediately. Do this for the next time the servers have any down time at all.

Before you gulp at the +400% CXP boost, remember that the main problem with this "perk" is that it affects so few people. So the likelihood of +400% CXP is the same likelihood as someone actually receiving a 100% boost right now. Not very high at all. And now that you've nerfed CXP for dailies into the ground, even a 400% increase in CXP for most things is not even half of what we were getting for a single daily mission on Yavin, or Oricon.

This is an olive branch, and a way to encourage people to level a variety of classes. What you are doing now is the opposite of that - it's punishing people for NOT playing a variety of classes. They are the ones paying their subscription, they should be able to play whatever they want. The grind to CR300 on a character that you enjoy playing is lengthy enough... let us do it with whatever class will make it more bearable and perhaps even... enjoyable?
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omaan's Avatar


omaan
10.11.2017 , 02:51 AM | #177
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

I verified with the team and the current implementation is intended, but I am seeing some confusion around the perk so let me explain how it works. Every time you hit Command Rank 300 on one of the mirrored base Classes (more on that in a sec) you get a 25% bonus to the base value for CXP gains. Since there are four sets of mirrors, you can gain four stacks of this buff, up to a total of 100%. It looks like this:
  • Any Knight or Warrior to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Consular or Inquisitor to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Smuggler or Agent to 300 adds +25%
  • Any Trooper or Bounty Hunter to 300 adds +25%

Separately, I know there are questions about how we communicated (or didnít) around this perk and so let me explain what happened. When Keith put information on the perk in the roadmap, it was meant to be fairly general, but we realize if we had been more specific we could have saved some of this frustration. The requirements for the perk were born out of some technical limitations which prevented us from giving you a bonus for any character which hit 300 (such as multiple Sith Warriors). As I was gathering the notes for 5.5, I didnít realize that limitation had been put in place and it wasnít caught during internal review. None of this is meant as an excuse, you should have had this information before today and it should have been in the notes. I apologize for that not being communicated, thatís on me.

The above information has been added into the patch notes for clarity, we hope that you still get to enjoy the benefits of increased CXP as you rank up in Galactic Command.

Thanks!

-eric
Well done Eric, your devs just failed the game AGAIN. Such stupid idea never should have lived. It is just beyond comprehension! All classes are equal! You are just trying to find another way to force us to grind more

Tsillah's Avatar


Tsillah
10.11.2017 , 02:53 AM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEnrique View Post
As you pointed out this kind of thing keeps happening over and over again at some point it stops being coincidence and starts being intentional. At this point Iím strongly starting to believe they are intentionally trying to upset their remaining player base.
I have to refer to Hanlon's Razer here which says:

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"

I do not believe there is a grand evil design behind things here. I do think they make a lot of avoidable mistakes. Of course, the end result is pretty much the same.

A saying that comes to mind as well is:

"The road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

I do believe they intend to do a lot of good things but intent doesn't make the result. For example, I really believe they intended to bring something fun to the table with the Iokath dailies. But the intent to do something new backfired. So intent is not enough.

You see, when KotFE was out we already got to try the clunky walker controls that made the chapters with walker parts a lot less fun for me. Later times where walkers were used were no better. I think they remember people asking for vehicle battles, but man, the controls sucks, mostly because they are so sluggish. It doesn't feel fun. So why continue in that line? It doesn't seem rocket science...and yet...
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DarthEnrique's Avatar


DarthEnrique
10.11.2017 , 03:09 AM | #179
I think at this point Galatic Command is what is going to kill off the remaining player base, some may stay loyal regardless, but I doubt itíll be enough to keep this game afloat. Galatic Command was a despised product well before its release because as many of us said, when we heard our gear would be coming out of RNG crates, this caused an uproar cause the RNG in this game is awful and thatís actually facts based on their crappy RNG Cartel Packs, its grinding, thats ll this is is nothing but crap grinding for hardly anything and even after all the complaining what they do give PVP a boost and made it a little easier for pvpers to get top tier gear with UCs that weíre exclusive to them.

I am almost at the max on Command Tokens and why? Because I have no use for them, I donít PVP enough because I find pvp to be toxic in this game, so I avoid it as much as possible, now we got to wait to get them Legacy bound AND available when disintegrating and I doubt PVErs will get a heck of lot even if they disintegrate everything its going to be an unnecessary and long grind as usual with almost every aspect in this game. Itís getting too much. Top good gear SHOULD NOT be the HARDEST thing to obtain, yet thatís all it ever is, I wish they would just go back to the credits only currency and let us buy gear with credits, done and over, no hassles other then grinding to get the credits.
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NeoBlakkrstal's Avatar


NeoBlakkrstal
10.11.2017 , 04:02 AM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by Lowarro View Post
If someone has 0 characters to 300, but purchased this perk (before this update it was just a flat 25%) do they lose the 25% they already paid for?
The original perk was only available to a toon that had already reached lvl 300 in Command rank, so your question is moot. This is not the Legacy perk on the main legacy perks page, it is the perk listed under Other on the left hand pane we are talking about here. I believe that is where your confusion originates from. The new perk bestows an additional 25% for each original class toon that also reaches lvl 300. Thus, in order to receive the full 100% bonus, you must have 1 of each class type reach lvl 300. Knight/Warrior, Inquisitor/Consular, Bounty Hunter/Smuggler, Agent/Trooper. I realize this is redundant, given that this has been answered numerous times throughout this thread, but I wanted to throw it out there again, ad nauseum.
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