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Ninjas in flashpoints - Can be fixed easily


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Today i was in a flashpoint and i am a sage so i rolled on a gear with willpower. Then this guardian takes a minute and thinks about it then he needs it which ends up him winning it. I asked him nicely to please trade it to me because he doesn't need willpower he needs strength.

 

He then replied "i can use 1 of the mods in this gear"

I became a little annoyed at how i could use all 4 mods on the lightsaber but he only wanted it because of the enhancement mod. This is something really frustrating, lightsabers in flashpoints can be needed by knights and consulars. It should be down to the stats on the item not the type of gear that drops which gives players the option to need on.

 

So basically i would like to ask BW to change it so the right class can only need on the gear for them and not any gear that they can use. Thank you.

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Pretty easy to handle this, the way you suggested would prevent greed rolls.

It's a pain.

What i do, is Vote kick the player... Ninja looting isn't tolerable under any circumstance.

This is more worrysome in Ops because the type of loot that drops.

I'd personally would have voted to kick that person as it's a kickable offense.

 

Hope this helps.

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"Need" means that an item could be used to upgrade your gear, so in a sense, he had just as much right as you to press need on that item, anyway, the gear from flashpoints very **** so just go with it, it sucks when it happend, you needed the item more then he needed it, but it happened. This suggestion has been written since game launched and still no answer from developers regarding this.
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This is not called "ninja looting." Ninja looting means the person needed on the item(s) that were not upgrades to him/her, for the purposes of i) spiting the group and / or ii) selfish monetary gain.

 

You both had need of the item dropped. Admittedly, your need was quantifiably greater; but he still had use for the item and he clearly intends to use it as an upgrade. This is not a loot issue. This is an enhancement issue. I've needed on tank items in the past that were originally designed for guardians / vanguards because the enhancement in it was an enormous upgrade.

 

We can pass judgment on the individual for not trading when your need was greater. But if this was simply a pug run and the likelihood of you two seeing each other again was minimal? I cannot condemn him for doing that. If this supposition is true, you're both in the instance to get gear, you have no mutual progression interest, so why vilify him when he can get an upgrade?

 

I certainly wouldn't.

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it is ninja looting and if you think it´s not, don´t be surprised next time you get kicked from group. all the enhancements and crystals are not main stats specified, so if you think that is a upgrade so it´s not a ninja loot then everyone can need everything. If it´s a willpower saber, it belongs to consulars or inquisitors, period. A knight or a warrior needing it is definitely ninja looting. And ninja looter usually get kicked immediately or ignored immediately, so I strongly advise you not trying that. But well, I guess there are people who just don´t give a **** about others.

 

And about the loot in fp is nothing comparing to operations. That´s not the reason of tolerating ninja looter, for people who are new to the game, that fp loot is very important, and it´s their right to have it.

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Just curiuos, was the Guardian the tank ?

 

Min /maxing your toon with enhancements from flashpoints drops. Sounds about right,lol. Knights needing willpower gear is 99% of the time for their Kiras.

 

You have a class and and a specific role during that flashpoint. Is not that hard to establish for whom that gear is meant for.... If the gear mainstat doesn't match your class, "need" button should be disabled. You can always greed it.

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it is ninja looting and if you think it´s not, don´t be surprised next time you get kicked from group. all the enhancements and crystals are not main stats specified, so if you think that is a upgrade so it´s not a ninja loot then everyone can need everything. If it´s a willpower saber, it belongs to consulars or inquisitors, period. A knight or a warrior needing it is definitely ninja looting. And ninja looter usually get kicked immediately or ignored immediately, so I strongly advise you not trying that. But well, I guess there are people who just don´t give a **** about others.

 

And about the loot in fp is nothing comparing to operations. That´s not the reason of tolerating ninja looter, for people who are new to the game, that fp loot is very important, and it´s their right to have it.

 

I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

 

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

 

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

 

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

 

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

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I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

 

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

 

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

 

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

 

So Unwavering Powertech's Foundry Jacket is called that because it's meant for any class to use? Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority. If they have no need for the item then everyone can greed and whoever gets it can benefit from it. There's no need to roll need for a single mod.

 

Guess each group is different, but I've yet to play with one who doesn't consider needing on a non-class item ninja looting, with the exception of ninja looters themselves in the group. If you're wanting it for a single mod then simply greed on it and if the role it's designed for doesn't need it then it's up for grabs.

 

When I run with my guild none of us need on items in FPs or Ops for single mods. When that happens in pug groups it's discussed and cleared up, and if it happens again it's generally a vote kick with those I've played with.

 

As to the OP, making it so that only the main class the item is intended for has the ability to need could be somewhat of a fix but I doubt even that would be perfect.

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I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

 

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

 

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

 

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

 

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

 

/Agree. Especially with lightsabers. I've been in FPs where a Guardian will need on a saber with willpower and beat me on a fair roll, even though my consular could use every single item on the saber and all he wanted it for was the look of the saber. Was I upset or call him Ninja? Nope, he wont fair and square and had just as much NEED for the item as I did.

 

I think its sad people calling others ninja over such minor issues as this honestly, at least in a PUGed FP. The only way to prevent this is to set up any loot rules on Needing with the entire group BEFORE starting the FP. Not after something like this where you think its wrong.

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So Unwavering Powertech's Foundry Jacket is called that because it's meant for any class to use? Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority. If they have no need for the item then everyone can greed and whoever gets it can benefit from it. There's no need to roll need for a single mod.

 

There are a couple of things here to consider, which is different from most other games:

 

1. FP items are useful for leveling, but honestly its mostly about LOOK than min/maxing. You don't even really need to worry about min/maxing stats until HM/NiM OPs at endgame. So you are right in saying "there's no need to roll for a single mod", at least I'd agree while leveling. Its just as easy to take the comms you just got from the run to go buy an upgrade or two. At end game its a completely different issue, especially with the poor itemization on most pieces.

 

2. While leveling, companions are a major factor in completing quests and fights for many players. I personally feel needing on an item for a companion is OK while leveling (but NOT at end game). The reason I think its OK is because how much you use your companion; its an extension of your toon's abilities just like another piece of gear (like a weapon or chest piece). Healers especially need a well geared tank companion to complete many fights.

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Fact is the items are specced in a way to provide maximum benefits to certain character types and they should have priority.

 

I'm pretty sure BioWare purposefully speccs items in a way that requires mix and match, so that the gearing process takes longer. So many "tank" enhancements with alacrity...

 

I wonder if everyone in this thread has the option checked to show more details when you hover over an item (it's not the default view, so I ask)? If you're just seeing the total aggregate end/main/secondary/tertiary stats you aren't getting all the information by viewing each armoring/mod/enhancement individually.

 

So I'm with the group that thinks you can need on a single enhancement. It's easy to get non-set bonus armorings and unlettered mods (except for tanks) with comms, but if a low endurance power-surge/accuracy or bulwark/bastion tank enhancement actually showed up I'd definitely be rolling for it. Although that may be moot and non-existent in flashpoints, they do show up with non-token pieces in ops.

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I'm pretty sure BioWare purposefully speccs items in a way that requires mix and match, so that the gearing process takes longer. So many "tank" enhancements with alacrity...

 

I wonder if everyone in this thread has the option checked to show more details when you hover over an item (it's not the default view, so I ask)? If you're just seeing the total aggregate end/main/secondary/tertiary stats you aren't getting all the information by viewing each armoring/mod/enhancement individually.

 

So I'm with the group that thinks you can need on a single enhancement. It's easy to get non-set bonus armorings and unlettered mods (except for tanks) with comms, but if a low endurance power-surge/accuracy or bulwark/bastion tank enhancement actually showed up I'd definitely be rolling for it. Although that may be moot and non-existent in flashpoints, they do show up with non-token pieces in ops.

 

I'm assuming lower level FPs here. I've almost never run into situations with people ninja'ing items in 50+ FPs. It's generally pretty well understood how things work by that point. The mix and match issues are more of a problem in Operation drops and Basic/Elite/Ultimate comm items.

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I've never been kicked from a group and I doubt I ever will.

 

You're entitled, man. If the item is an upgrade to persons A, B, and C -- no matter how great or small -- what right do you have to tell person C and A that they can't have it, even if it's an upgrade? We're not talking guild runs here. These are PUG runs. If I see an upgrade -- even if it's just an enhancement -- I have and will need on it.

 

This is not ninjaing. The loot does not say "consular only" or "smuggler only." All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

 

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

 

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

 

When you go into a group, you know exactly what is expected behavior regarding loot. You know it very well, Everybody does.

You may disagree of course with these social rules but you are aware of them.

 

When you enter the group, before anything, do you make your case and you tell them "I plan on needing on everthing that has an enhancement I may want" in advance ? Or you just keep it to yourself, and "need" whatever item drops and see how things play out ?

Edited by wainot-keel
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All four roles can benefit from enhancement / crystals and if it's a desired upgrade for their main spec, we, as players, have no right to deny him / her of an upgrade.

 

If this issue really bothers players, then the blame should be firmly placed on BioWare's shoulders. They need to do something like place main stat on enhancements or something of the kind.

 

As it is? We're calling people ninjas for needing on upgrades for their main spec. How sad is that?

 

main stat for every class is defined - it's aim, willpower, cunning or strength

 

if you NEED for a gear with not your main stat - it's ninja looting

you can think anything about you not being ninja, but the fact is that you NEED a gear with others main stat

 

the rule is - NEED only for gear with your main stat

if you want it for your alt or companion or even enhancement for yourself - ask before

 

as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse

"it's not me - it's just a hard life and circumstances!"

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as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse

Best excuse I ever saw was "I didn't see you" after asking the guy why the hell did he open the big chest while I was fighting two champ droids with lesser friends. The guy's eyesight is so poor he managed to miss a shadow and Nadia fighting a group of 5 mobs, two of which are droids 3 meters tall. At the same time, the loot chest was a shiny beacon bathed in divine light and the heavenly choir started playing as he opened it.

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It's just a matter of politeness and good common sense not to roll on items that don't carry your mainstat as long as someone with the "right" mainstat is in the group.

 

Though someone might "need" an enhancement, it doesn't justify a need roll on the whole item. That's just bad manners and inconsiderate behaviour to your fellow players.

 

As a side note: I wouldn't kick someone from the group for doing it, that's just too much effort. I'd just label that player a bad person and avoid being grouped with him again.

If another player criticizes the unjustified need roll (which I'm mostly too lazy to do either) and he gets impolite in his answer, I'll put that player on my Ignore list.

So don't be too sure that your behaviour is ok, just because it doesn't get openly criticized or sanctioned. There may still be a silent majority of people facepalming at what you just did...

Edited by Ardarell_Solo
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When you go into a group, you know exactly what is expected behavior regarding loot. You know it very well, Everybody does.

You may disagree of course with these social rules but you are aware of them.

 

When you enter the group, before anything, do you make your case and you tell them "I plan on needing on everthing that has an enhancement I may want" in advance ? Or you just keep it to yourself, and "need" whatever item drops and see how things play out ?

 

Yes, I'm aware of the rules. It goes like this, "if an item drops that is an upgrade for your current role and specialization, hit need. Otherwise, hit greed."

 

If a moddable item drops that has an enhancement that is a clear upgrade, that is within the accepted rules to hit need. I've had someone hit need for an item where they are only using a single mod -- and I could have used all three -- and I did not complain for a single moment.

 

Any rules that are more complicated than I prescribed are for guilds, not pugs.

 

==

 

main stat for every class is defined - it's aim, willpower, cunning or strength

 

if you NEED for a gear with not your main stat - it's ninja looting

you can think anything about you not being ninja, but the fact is that you NEED a gear with others main stat

 

the rule is - NEED only for gear with your main stat

if you want it for your alt or companion or even enhancement for yourself - ask before

 

as for blaming BW - every thief has an excuse

"it's not me - it's just a hard life and circumstances!"

 

You really need to look up the definition of ninja looting because you do not have it. How is it ninja looting if someone rolls need on something that will directly upgrade their current role and specialization? I will concede that something may be a better upgrade for someone else, but if it's a PUG, no one has these considerations. In a PUG your objective is to upgrade your toon. In a guild run, the focus is the team, and that's where you can have more complex rules.

 

I, and the vast majority of players in this game, roll need (in a PUG) if we upgrade our current character and specialization. You may want different rules (lol ask if I can roll need on an upgrade) but that is not what the majority does.

 

==

 

Here is the definition of WoW Wiki for ninja looting. Yes, I know this is SWTOR, but the definition is transferable and works here.

 

I don't know about you, but I see nothing in there as far as needing for upgrades.

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I am of two minds on this:

 

#1 - the piece of equipment as a whole is intended for a JC/SI class. So for a non-JC/SI to click need reeks of ninja

#2 - if the enhancement is in fact a upgrade for the JK, then I do not have an issue with him "needing" it.

 

If I had been in that JK's place, I would have asked the group, but that's me.

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I can see why players would see 1 mod out of 4 being an upgrade as a reason to need. I am just saying in this case he needed it for the enhancement which was endurance/power. I know a little bit of power is ok for a tank but it is much more useful to a dps and i needed all 4 mods. I am a believer that main stat = need roll.

 

What i don't understand is how you can't need on gear which has same armor but you can need on any type of lightsaber if you are a force class. Like a tank needing on a double bladed lightsaber for the enhancement is ridiculous because for 2 coms you could get the right enhancement from supplies vendor so why take 4 mods from another player. I know WoW had terrible ninjaring but i really don't want this game to go down the same route. Then again i just tend to ignore people who need on stuff just for 1 mod when they really should ask first.

 

Same with a companion, if you want it for your companion then ask, it is an extension of your char but that gives you no right to need it. Technically everyone should need on everything if it includes companions.

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You really need to look up the definition of ninja looting because you do not have it.

 

i really do not need to look up the definition of ninja looting because i am defining it :-)

 

How is it ninja looting if someone rolls need on something that will directly upgrade their current role and specialization?

 

in SW TOR all loot has main stat which is defined for every class

all loot should be rolled first by the proper class - with that very main stat

all other classes roll next

 

so NEED only on gear with your main stat

otherwise you are ninja looting

 

every and any loot can be used for my upgrade

i can sell it or RE it or use it for my companion or for my alt

the question is in priority to roll and someone's greediness

 

Here is the definition of WoW Wiki for ninja looting. Yes, I know this is SWTOR, but the definition is transferable and works here.

 

this's not WOW, this is SW TOR

i do not care about any definitions from WOW wiki (or any wiki, to say honestly)

Edited by pan_sObak
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I don,t think the issue here is ninjaing as the JK had a use of an upgrade, Its more like bad manners that he didnt ask the JC if he minded, Tbh if I have been in a similar situation on my JK I would ask. On a side note if I won any loot that I needed to upgrade but is a bigger upgrade for another player in the group I would probably let them have it aslong as they asked politely.

 

It may seem like being soft but what goes around comes around,

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i really do not need to look up the definition of ninja looting because i am defining it :-)

 

 

 

in SW TOR all loot has main stat which is defined for every class

all loot should be rolled first by the proper class - with that very main stat

all other classes roll next

 

so NEED only on gear with your main stat

otherwise you are ninja looting

 

every and any loot can be used for my upgrade

i can sell it or RE it or use it for my companion or for my alt

the question is in priority to roll and someone's greediness

 

 

 

this's not WOW, this is SW TOR

i do not care about any definitions from WOW wiki (or any wiki, to say honestly)

 

So you're one of those people who still think the world is flat?

 

You cannot re-define terms that everyone else accepts as another definition. But if you are, I'll leave you to it in your wrongness.

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So, how about a sentinel needing on guardian gear, or a guardian needing on sentinel gear, if they need the mods, but not the armour itself?

 

As long as they ask first in chat I would be ok with it, with most people wearing adaptvie gear nowadays that isn't really an issue.

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