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Following the server mergers, can we please now have objective-based ranked?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Following the server mergers, can we please now have objective-based ranked?

Siouve's Avatar


Siouve
11.21.2017 , 01:21 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Tharianus View Post
In LoL for example 5v5 is more popular than 3v3. It was the same in SW:ToR - 8vs8 ranked was way more popular than Arenas (even season 1).
Are you saying Arena is a success? Come on... In that case you can say Galactic Command is a success and everyone likes it.
We have to face it even it is sad:
Ranked PvP is not popular right now.
Every Suggestion that can help to make ranked pvp popular again is very welcome...

Well ok if we talk about carry:
Let us forget Team based ranked and implement 1vs1 Queue (including balancing)
So You have 100% influence - if You fail it is your own fault.
The only Person Who you need to carry is yourself.

@hottie
Team ranked is pure skill i agree but solo queue?

Imagine following situation/example:
You play pub side without guild.
Pubs:
- 8 Pubs including you are in the queue for solo ranked 6 of them are New to pvp or do not know how to Deal damage.
Imps:
- 4 people of Sick twisted individuals (obviously strong pvpers)
And 4 other pvpers from an other guild.
Situation:
The Chance that 2 or 3 members of Sick twisted individuals or the other guild join the same arena is very high right?
While the Chance is very high on pub that you join the arena with some New players.
Are you able to carry 3 New players against 4 experienced pvpers? The answer is obvious.
You cannot win against 4 experienced pvpers all by yourself.

And the Bad thing about this: in the next round it is almost the same Situation like before because matchmaking prefer imp vs pub.

That is the reason why so many pvpers are frustrated and why people insult new players in ranked.

Solo queue only works with cross Server and cross faction.
thanks

kukumburr's Avatar


kukumburr
11.21.2017 , 01:22 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
Have you ever experienced solo ranked in your life? Yes, there are skilled players who carry. I have personally witnessed players who basically had to solo kill everyone on the other team because their own team was dead weight or times where 2 players on your team die and you have to duo 4 players to win. I would call those carried.

An example of a heavily populated game with a solo ranked system is Overwatch. In Overwatch there are the same pros getting top 500 in grand master every season playing solo ranked. Some of which are easily top 10 in the world out of everyone, even teams; an example I gave was Surefour (he is considered one of the best players in the world). These players are a prime example of players who carry. It isn't a myth.
Yes I've done solo ranked and I've gone up against teams that had a known extremely good player on it but had one or two bad players on their team and so my only overall somewhat good team crushed them. One good player cannot make up for an otherwise bad team unless the opposing team is also bad. Overwatch works a bit better since there's a larger population to draw from, so it can match people with similar ratings/skills better. That's not the case for SWTOR. Not to mention Overwatch is a FPS and plays completely differently to SWTOR so I'm not sure why they should be comparable. Even in Overwatch though grouped play is much more impressive than solo play. See: Overwatch world cup and the new Overwatch league.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
11.21.2017 , 02:07 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
Have you ever experienced solo ranked in your life? Yes, there are skilled players who carry. I have personally witnessed players who basically had to solo kill everyone on the other team because their own team was dead weight or times where 2 players on your team die and you have to duo 4 players to win. I would call those carried.

An example of a heavily populated game with a solo ranked system is Overwatch. In Overwatch there are the same pros getting top 500 in grand master every season playing solo ranked. Some of which are easily top 10 in the world out of everyone, even teams; an example I gave was Surefour (he is considered one of the best players in the world). These players are a prime example of players who carry. It isn't a myth.
Please don't try to convince us that there are some kind PVP immortal gods who solo kill everyone when their own team is dead.

Yeah.. cheaters maybe, rigged games maybe, but that cannot be done legit unless the opposing team was so bad that they had really no idea what to do.


There are good players who can carry but NOT to the extent you described in your post. Operatives are most likely to do it as they have all the tools for it. I've lost games to an operative on darth malgus because he had garbage team 3 times in a row and he won every damn time...


Also, matchmaking is very bad. Grouping people with similar rating means that Jeff, DPS Jugg with 980 rating will always get teamed with lower rated people(, throwers, quitters, Green Gears). Not much hope for him is there ?


I strongly believe that 8 vs 8 ranked will have a much larger player pool because PVP-ers from regs would be more likely to play objective based ranked and let's face the truth: a lot of people hate arenas..

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
11.21.2017 , 02:17 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by kukumburr View Post
Yes I've done solo ranked and I've gone up against teams that had a known extremely good player on it but had one or two bad players on their team and so my only overall somewhat good team crushed them. One good player cannot make up for an otherwise bad team unless the opposing team is also bad. Overwatch works a bit better since there's a larger population to draw from, so it can match people with similar ratings/skills better. That's not the case for SWTOR. Not to mention Overwatch is a FPS and plays completely differently to SWTOR so I'm not sure why they should be comparable. Even in Overwatch though grouped play is much more impressive than solo play. See: Overwatch world cup and the new Overwatch league.
If you are content on your position that a player(s) can't carry in solo ranked you are free to continue think as you like; I don't feel like wasting more time trying to arguing a brick wall. Agree to disagree. I do like to remind you that the discussion is side-tracked from the OP's post. You are nit-picking a factor in which the context was a comparison of an individuals impact in 4v4 solo ranked verse 8v8 solo ranked; this has nothing to do with team ranked play. This is a thread that is suggesting that we have 8v8 solo ranked because of the servers slight population growth. Seeing how negative your position on solo ranked is as a whole, can we at least find common ground in stating that 8v8 solo ranked would be just as cancerous as 4v4 solo ranked?

Quote: Originally Posted by kukumburr View Post
Overwatch works a bit better since there's a larger population to draw from, so it can match people with similar ratings/skills better. That's not the case for SWTOR. Not to mention Overwatch is a FPS and plays completely differently to SWTOR so I'm not sure why they should be comparable. Even in Overwatch though grouped play is much more impressive than solo play. See: Overwatch world cup and the new Overwatch league.
Overwatch comparison was not originally brought up by me but another player. I actually find it relevant because the same things in their solo rank ladder (even being heavily more populated with an arguably more accurate MMR system) are happening in this game; constantly seeing the same players on top of the leader board in a solo ranked/team based game.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

kissingaiur's Avatar


kissingaiur
11.21.2017 , 02:18 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
(, throwers, quitters, Green Gears). Not much hope for him is there ?
I like to remind you that bolster is a thing in this game. I can't believe people are still using this excuse in their arguments.
Hothothothothothotho
"I need you all to know that Iíve transcended ranked pvp by reading about it on the forums"
5.6 PvP Operative Healing / twitch.tv/kissingaiur

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
11.21.2017 , 08:27 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by kissingaiur View Post
I like to remind you that bolster is a thing in this game. I can't believe people are still using this excuse in their arguments.
Bolster only takes you up to 242.

Having full BiS isn't a huge advantage but it is an advantage nonetheless. Pit two players of equal skill in the same spec against one another, one in 248s and the other in bolstered greens, and the one in 248s would win the majority of the time. People in bolstered green 228s are going to have a shallow health pool and no set bonus.

SlightlySychotic's Avatar


SlightlySychotic
11.26.2017 , 01:56 AM | #47
Just wanted to touch on a few things:

First, I absolutely agree that matchmaking needs a rework. However, itís not a mutually exclusive solution and I just donít believe there is any solution that would actually fix arenas. Worse, if matchmaking changes were implemented now then it would require that arenas be offered another ďfair chanceĒ to see if the changes make them work. If they donít, that just means more wasted time. Iíd much rather they add objective matches to ranked then rework how matchmaking works.

Second, to the ďmore people means more problems,Ē Iím sorry but I just donít agree or I donít see your point. The only point of concern is that, in theory, it increases the opportunity for collusion but, in practice, I donít think it will be an issue. Most groups just cannot field 8 players ó if they could, weíd still have 8v8 group ranked. That means they have to rely on PUGs to pick up the slack. And since the point of queue syncing is to take advantage of the lower numbers of the weaker faction arenít likely to be the most skilled or best geared. Most syncers arenít going to have the patience for that. Thatís on top of cross-faction already existing in 8v8s. The benefits to queue syncing just arenít as free as they are in arenas.
Darth Sychotic: (Sith Juggernaut) "Whatever does not kill you has failed and must be made to pay egregiously for its error."
Kaz Keeno: (Scoundrel) "One day I hope we can just move on and put this whole 'trying-to-kill-me' nonsense behind us."