I know originally lightsabers were intended to be heavy, but that idea was scrapped. Just in general, I see many Jedi/Sith -- those who are heavy hitters as well as the agile ones -- wield only a single saber. I am also aware that a few people dual wield...keyword is few. Same goes for double-bladed lightsabers, but my focus is on dual-wielding in this case.

 

Why is this? Why is it that so many Jedi/Sith only use one lightsaber, and the likes of dual-wielding are pretty much seen in random video games, or a cartoon? Yet in the movies, the most iconic of characters, aren't dual-wielding?

I know originally lightsabers were intended to be heavy, but that idea was scrapped. Just in general, I see many Jedi/Sith -- those who are heavy hitters as well as the agile ones -- wield only a single saber. I am also aware that a few people dual wield...keyword is few. Same goes for double-bladed lightsabers, but my focus is on dual-wielding in this case.

 

Why is this? Why is it that so many Jedi/Sith only use one lightsaber, and the likes of dual-wielding are pretty much seen in random video games, or a cartoon? Yet in the movies, the most iconic of characters, aren't dual-wielding?

 

The cost of cgi on two lightsabers is more than one.

The cost of cgi on two lightsabers is more than one.

 

Yeah I heard about that. I meant lore-wise. Whats the chances of a Jedi or a Sith dual-wielding? Outside of the movies, I see a lot of force users still using single sabers, so much so that any other variation doesn't feel traditional at all. In another sense, take the SWTOR trailers for example. For the most part you see tons upon tons of Jedi/Sith using a single saber. The only time anyone dual wields is when they pick up someone else's saber (which still indicates that they walk around with only one saber).

Dual-wielding is a fantasy convention. In real life humans mostly lack the strength and coordination to effectively make offensive use of both hands at once. Real life duelists who use a mainhand sword and an offhand "weapon" use a very light blade for primarily defensive use, with only the main hand dedicated to offense. True dual-wielders who use two weapons offensively use two light weapons, nothing the size or weight of a sword.

 

So it's kind of hard to get an actor to fake a good two-sword attack routine for the duration of a movie, especially compared with how easy it is to make a video game sprite do so.

 

(Lightstaves are even worse, at least with a usable middle as short as the one video games give them.)

 

So the iconic images, which mostly come from the movies after all, are going to be largely single saber, and any cinematics that want to touch on that iconic image are going to copy that.

 

But it looks neat and feels fun as a player to bash stuff with two blades at once. So you see a lot more dual-wielding in games than other media.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Quething

hard to say since this took place 3000 yrs before darth vadar. kind of a assumation of how water will be delievered 1000 yrs from now.

Most people aren't ambidextrous enough for starters. On top of that you are limiting yourself drastically by having to focus on more than one "sharp" object. Keep in mind that in weapon-play a vast majority of the skill and focus is in not hurting yourself. It is far easier to keep track of one blade twirling around, and thus not chopping yourself in half accidentally, than it is to keep track of two. Think of it like juggling. Toss one ball up into the air and it's easy to handle. Add another and the difficulty goes up dramatically.

 

And there is little to no upside to this handicap. Flailing about like a crazy person is just going to leave you wide open to attack.

 

The people that are real "dual wielders" in fencing are basically just using their main gauche (short pointy offhand dagger with a trapping hilt) as a defensive object. Yes they might throw in the RARE attack with it, but only as a feint to open up an attack with their rapier/estoc.

 

If you were to try this with katanas or longswords you'd just end up either chopping yourself in half or quickly leaving yourself open for your opponent to do it.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Marak

True, it is not practical in reality to wield 2 sabers, and as others point out most 'humans' lack the coordination and skill required but we are talking about force users who have the force to guide and coordinate them.

 

I'm drawing from memory here; (POSSIBLE SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT READ THE NOVELS): but in the Darth Bane book series he made his appretice learn to weild a double bladed light saber primarily to confuse and baffle their single-saber weilding Jedi and Sith enemies because they would not have faced such a weapon in the recent past, possibly not in several generations (also since it is so rare to have any dual weild or double end blades as others have pointed out) Since they have not faced such a weapon during their training or active 'service', the weilder was at an instant advantage even if their mastery of the force was at a lower level, say the apprentice facing a Jedi Knight (or her own Master....).

 

That being said, I agree it is a 'fantasy' act and one I enjoy with my Sith Warrior. The practicalities aside, the animations are fun to watch and I sometimes enjoy watching my warrior fight so much I forget to keep an eye on his health bar!

How about any Jedi/Sith in particular that normally walks around with two lightsabers due to the fact that they are skilled enough to use such a form? I'm trying to find some in actual Star Wars lore. Because as it stands, the only time I really see dual-wielding is when a Jedi/Sith temporarily uses another's lightsaber in sync with their own.

 

Actual characters, please. I'm not big on that whole "canon" thing but I'm trying to find actual characters. No starskillers.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Verrell

Dual-wielding is a fantasy convention. In real life humans mostly lack the strength and coordination to effectively make offensive use of both hands at once. Real life duelists who use a mainhand sword and an offhand "weapon" use a very light blade for primarily defensive use, with only the main hand dedicated to offense. True dual-wielders who use two weapons offensively use two light weapons, nothing the size or weight of a sword.

 

That's not entirely true. The florentine fighting style taught how to use sword and dagger, and use both offensively. The niten ichi-ryu style developed by Musashi included a dual-wielding style as well, using a katana in one hand and a wakizashi in the other, using both offensively. Wing chun sword style also can focus on twin butterfly swords (which would be classified as 'shortswords', really).

 

While historically it's nowhere NEAR as common as it is in fantasy/movies, it wasn't something that was completely alien, nor was it limited to two light weapons.

 

*adjusts her nerd glasses*

aayla secura uses 2.. and shes in the clone wars

well in Episode II there was a bit of dual wielding going on. Jedi are protectors though. How many police officers do you see carrying two pistols?

aayla secura uses 2.. and shes in the clone wars

 

I havent watched that, unfortunately. In the clone wars did she have two sabers as her own, that she always walked around with, or did she just pick up and use someone else's lightsabers in dual-wielding?

 

Example, I know Kit Fitso dual wields at one point, but for the most part he walks around with one. He just used one of Grievouses.

she wasnt shown a ton. Edited February 7, 2012 by LordSoviet

Lore reasons for one handing.

 

1. Jedi only (supposed to) defend themselves and others, dual lightsaber fighting is more offensive and aggressive so just from a Jedi moral view it frowned upon to use dual lightsaber, one is more than enough for defense.

 

2. It's harder to use the force with something in your hand/s (well really it's not, but it is for most movie force users as they think it is), therefore most Jedi like to have a free hand so they can more quickly/easily use the force when required. Even Yoda for example has to put his lightsaber away to use the force to save Anakin and Kenobi.

 

3. Power, as Lightsabers are weightless all the power (hit force) comes from the user, dual wielders therefore sacrifice hit and defense power (as they can only use one arm strenght per saber) for a multi point attack. This make fighting Djem-So or Juyo users hard, as you would have to avoid blows rather than try to block them. - This is one of the reasons Vader was so dominating, nobody could match the power of his robotic arms, he would just power-brake through everyone defenses with ease.

DW wouldn't normally be practical for the most part. The amount of focus and effort to keep from bisecting yourself and it's weak defense against forms that use the force to enhance physical strength make it infeasible to only only half invest in training if they where going to use it as a main style. Jedi have many non-combat duties which prevents many of them from being weapon masters so for them it would probably be vary rare to see many of them trained in anything more than situational dual wielding and defense against dual wielders.

 

Sith I imagine it would be slightly more common only bc Sith don't act as intergalactic fed ex and have a much more rigorous (read potentially fatal) combat and survival training program over diplomatic and mediator training.

 

For a good video that shows all 3 of the primary weapons (single blade, double bladed, and dual wield) go

 

After the blade barrier he forms which is an special effect that initial assault was fast and brutal but any follow up he made was inflexible and clumsy compared to the earlier single blade style and the lacked speed and ferocity of the double blade later. While he is a real person with no benefit of the force it gives an idea of why DW still wouldn't be common compared to the other 2 styles which don't require constant aid of the force.

Edited February 7, 2012 by kainsec

There is a "form" or technique that utilizes DW, it's called Jar'kai. and it's supposedly a VERY hard skill to learn, even masters have trouble with it. One notable example is Assajj Ventress(not sure about the spellin) adn it seems plausible as you're only really carrying 2 relatively small hunks of metal as opposed to a full sword.

 

A glaring weakness for this form though is that without working out your arm muscles, you lack the defensive capability of a regular duelist when someone keeps battering at your sabers.

 

In real life terms, I'd agree with people here that DW is very dangerous and in western swordplay, you don't use a full sword in your offhand. Instead you utilize either a small sword, parrying, dagger, or even a cloak. However there is a style taht is thought in the Philippines that teaches the use of 2 weapons called Arnis, however this art uses wooden rattan sticks instead of swords. I believe Kali and Eskrima also teaches dual wielding and it's not that "think of them as part of the same weapon" crap either, they teach you to use to weapons, so use both of them.

That's not entirely true. The florentine fighting style taught how to use sword and dagger, and use both offensively. The niten ichi-ryu style developed by Musashi included a dual-wielding style as well, using a katana in one hand and a wakizashi in the other, using both offensively. Wing chun sword style also can focus on twin butterfly swords (which would be classified as 'shortswords', really).

 

While historically it's nowhere NEAR as common as it is in fantasy/movies, it wasn't something that was completely alien, nor was it limited to two light weapons.

 

*adjusts her nerd glasses*

 

Eh, wakizashi and butterfly swords are still pretty light in terms of SW weapons; lightsabers seem about comparable to bastard swords. (I did like that in KotOR, there were short lightsabers suitable for offhand use. It was a shame you could just equip a full mainhand saber anyway and take the -2 hit by the time you hit level 10, rendering the light offhand concept pointless.)

 

Nevertheless, fair point: the basic concept isn't impossible or unheard of given the right equipment and training. Which really just makes me want to see even more diverse or complex fighting styles. Lightkukri. Lightsai. Light meteor hammers!

Frankly I think they wanted their characters to simply stick to the classic look.

 

Also, if you ask me, 2 weapons are somewhat impractical because not only you have to develop enough sheer strength to actually utilize them properly, you also don't have a free hand to grab on to things etc. You can do force push / pull / lightning, you name it, with a thumb and 2 fingers with other 2 fingers being wrapped around the hilt but when it comes to supporting yourself upon falling or things like that, you're unable to actually do it.

Forget how swordsmanship works in real life. Lightsaber combat is not actually based on the tool, but on the force. The stance and mindset you adopt while fighting, or "Form", defines how your abilities will translate into the lightsaber.

Shii-cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru are examples of jedi forms in battle, and knights would adapt accordingly. Some forms work better with two lightsabers, some with a single. But none are "superior" to any other.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Valenhil

Forget how swordsmanship works in real life. Lightsaber combat is not actually based on the tool, but on the force. The stance and mindset you adopt while fighting, or "Form", defines how your abilities will translate into the lightsaber.

Shii-cho, Makashi, Soresu, Ataru are examples of jedi forms in battle, and knights would adapt accordingly. Some forms work better with two lightsabers, some with a single. But none are "superior" to any other.

 

Agreed, While lore wise there are not many Force users that actually dual wield their sabers. And in real life dual wielding is for the most part impractical because of human psychical limitations, but Lore provides more then enough examples of how they could use the force to augment their psychical abilities to the point where those limitations could be extended to make dual wielding practical. I mean how often do you see swordsman flipping around each other or throwing rocks with their minds in a fight in real life?

 

The Point of the thread is why would we see MORE dual wielding force users than at any other point in the universes time line?

 

The real answer is, Bioware took a creative licence when it comes to this and honestly for most people its a draw to use an "EXOTIC" combat style as opposed to the standard one everyone is already familiar with.

 

For a more lore opinion,i would think the off handed weapon would be more of a defensive option than a offensive one, and if you look at the damage output, your off hand saber does do significantly less damage than your main hand. In fact i think dual wielding classes should be given a slight parry bonus

Edited February 8, 2012 by Daraco

Just like someone who can fight in the Florentine style IRL, it would be exceedingly rare. It might be slightly easier because strength would be a non-factor (lightsabers only have weight in the hilt) but the coordination required would still be intense. I can't even fight sword and board IRL, I use two-handed practice weapons for the enhanced control over the weapon they offer.

well in Episode II there was a bit of dual wielding going on. Jedi are protectors though. How many police officers do you see carrying two pistols?

 

Lol they all carry two plus pistols, they only shoot one at a time lol. And if you can't see the backup gun, just know it's there.

Eh, wakizashi and butterfly swords are still pretty light in terms of SW weapons; lightsabers seem about comparable to bastard swords. (I did like that in KotOR, there were short lightsabers suitable for offhand use. It was a shame you could just equip a full mainhand saber anyway and take the -2 hit by the time you hit level 10, rendering the light offhand concept pointless.)

 

Nevertheless, fair point: the basic concept isn't impossible or unheard of given the right equipment and training. Which really just makes me want to see even more diverse or complex fighting styles. Lightkukri. Lightsai. Light meteor hammers!

 

Actually lightsabers have NO weight in the blade. That's why only force users use them, a non force user can't find the balance of the blade (it's a beam of light). The hard part is coordinating both blades.

Actually lightsabers have NO weight in the blade. That's why only force users use them, a non force user can't find the balance of the blade (it's a beam of light). The hard part is coordinating both blades.

 

Well, technically, it's a blade of plasma housed inside shielding, but that's neither here nor there, it's still (functionally) weightless.

 

Force-users are more adept with Lightsabers because of their inherent precognition that helps them to not cut themselves in half while wielding them because of the strange fashion wielding a weightless blade is.

 

On that note, for a talented Force-user, the coordination would be a moot point, since your precognition and enhanced reflexes would, with training, negate the inherent flaw. Now, strength woudl still be an issue.

In short bursts and with a certain "power level" strength is a non-issue as well. Drawing on the force to directly augment a person's physical capabilities is not unheard of. Vader drew almost entirely on the force to simply move, enhancing his surviving musculature directly with the Force. So in summary to dual wield a person would need the following: Force enhanced precognition, force enhanced reflexes, decades of training, force enhanced Strength and the focus to keep every movement and action precise. Edited February 8, 2012 by tausra