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Discussion Thread: Galactic Starfighter

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Discussion Thread: Galactic Starfighter
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Stncold's Avatar


Stncold
07.06.2017 , 08:13 PM | #21
Either remove TDM or find some way so that every single one doesn't turn into a gunship/bomber fest.
RIP The Fatman.

"Jedi Knights aren't celibate - the thing that is forbidden is attachments - and possessive relationships." -Lucas

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
07.06.2017 , 09:26 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSpuds View Post
Unless Bioware are thinking about a PvE version of GSF they are ignoring the biggest stumbling block to why so few players access it.

All The Best
I don't disagree.

One of the most fun times I had was in SWG, which had PvE Space Flight. Granted, it wasn't the flying around that made it great for me, while I appreciated the open space nature of the game (I also named the AEG-77 Vigo in the game, fun fact!), but it was the missions against the Corellian Corvette, and the missions against the fleet of warships over Kashyyyk that made the game awesome. It was also fun to get a crew together in a multi-player ship to take down those objectives, particularly that fleet over Kashyyyk. And one of the coolest memories I had was of that Kashyyyk mission, in a YT-1300 freighter, where they had enough people for pilot, co pilot, and the 2 gunner positions, and I just came along for the ride and stood in the cockpit, watching while everyone else took on that challenge - and it felt like I was in the Star Wars movies, just watching that excitement. It was pure magic.

Costello's Avatar


Costello
07.06.2017 , 09:41 PM | #23
GSF is a subset of PvP that seems to lack even what little the ground PvP experience offers.

I have fleet admiral title with a kill to death ratio of 5 to 1 yet for all the relevance it has to the game it may as well have been done in Star Citizen or a flight sim that offers a more immersive experience or hell even EvE online.

Dog fighting was a massive part of the Star Wars Movies and is an element of game play that ToR should have been able to offer that few other games couldn't (strangely WoW offers more flight and more flight related combat missions that ToR). Who doesn't want to strap themselves into a Tie Fighter and fly for the glory of the Empire. Hell we had X-Wing, Tie Fighter and X-Wing vs Tie Fighter not to mention all the other variant and Jump to Light Speed that showed what could be done.

Unfortunately what is on offer is a PvP only experience (which will limit the appeal as being ganked over an over is seldom fun) and a control system that makes it more logical to play as a gunship or bomber. While with what possible resources can be directed to mini game within PvP which already only exists as 15 minute mini games with no real open world or persistent PvP must cause GSF to fall in the too costly for any potential returns. So are these posts just lip service to the GSF community to be as quickly forgotten as the post years back asking for feed back on Strike Fighters?

Storm-Cutter's Avatar


Storm-Cutter
07.07.2017 , 12:22 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Alec_Fortescue View Post
I
1. Extremely long progression - it takes WAY too long to level up ships to reach "bis" and get competitive with the right loudout. This is even worse now that we've got CXP gearing which makes gearing alts a huge pain for pvpers. :{

. :{
There are several guides on the GSF forum giving tips on spending your initial requisition.

GSF rewards a fair bit of CXP and also UCs so you can be gearing your character while flying in space. - For example the weekly ( 7 matches wins count 2x) awards something like 11K CXP.
At lower Command ranks, you could do the daily and weekly matches and open many command crates at the end. + credits, fleet comms and conquest points. It's VERY 'rewarding' in a purely material sense.

Best thing though is the community. - Good for the heart as its virtually salt-free.
-Storm Cutter.
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Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
07.07.2017 , 01:05 AM | #25
Hi Eric,

I know I would play GSF and so would some of my friends if there was a JoyStick option
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APAC - sign this thread to say goodbye
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=936181

DakhathKilrathi's Avatar


DakhathKilrathi
07.07.2017 , 01:26 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
Hi Eric,

I know I would play GSF and so would some of my friends if there was a JoyStick option
This has been covered really, really well, in several previous posts. It's probably worth your time to search for and read some of them. Here's one example:

Quote: Originally Posted by Verain View Post
SWTOR is a keyboard and mouse game, and GSF is part of that.

This thread has the most practical guide if you really want to do it, above my post.


But... lemme tell you why you might want to reconsider.

1)- GSF is all about pointing a cursor, often very precisely. A mouse is superior at this.
2)- The big money for a joystick is the ability to get all the different axes of control going correctly. GSF lacks the ability to extend this to a joystick in a meaningful way.
Specifically:
2a)- The throttle is digital, not analog- you have off, low, medium, high, and boost. This means a throttle won't get you what it would in a game where it's analogy.
2b)- Rolling is digital, not analog. This means you can't roll less (and therefore more precisely) or more (and therefore faster). You are either rolling left, rolling right, or not rolling, and mapping that to a joystick axis won't do anything for you.
2c)- There's no way to separate aiming from movement. A "correct" control scheme would allow you to control your ship's movement independent of the gimballing- for instance, acutual joystick support would feature the ability to pitch directly upward while leaving your reticule dead center, firing a shot with 0 deflection and therefore no miss penalty. You would be able to take a shot at anyone in your field of view without that influencing what direction your craft is turning, a huge advantage over the reticule based flying we have now- but GSF doesn't support this, so mapping a joystick won't get you anything here.
3)- Without a custom scheme, you are ultimately just figuring out how to steer a mouse cursor with a joystick.


Why doesn't GSF have HOTAS support? The real answer is how expensive it is to add and maintain joystick support. Joysticks are nowhere near as normalized as mice or keyboard- go search in almost any game forum plus the name of any HOTAS and find people doing all manner of stuff to make it work, in games that support them natively. Now pick an obscure or common mouse and search for that with any game, and at MOST you'll find people discussing how best to pick their buttons. Anyway, they would have to maintain that forever, and it would be at the SWTOR level, meaning the engine has to bind every joystick correctly, and that has to be tested all the time. The code, the unit test, the test procedures, the physical copies of dozens of popular HOTAS in Bioware's test lab....


The secondary reason is that the difference between good and bad players is massively shocking. Simply ludicrous. A HOTAS would be a lot of effort to make that delta even bigger. If my X-52 immediately and laglessly pitched my ship, immediately and laglessly gave me analog roll and twist for yaw, with my analog throttle actually doing what it is supposed to do, while being able to use a hat to gimbal shots (with a default of dead center shots for no deflection on the hat), I would be much more effective than I could possibly be with my mouse. I'll go further- I'm 100% convinced that with these controls, I could outfly and outdogfight anyone using keyboard and mouse by a very noticeable amount, regardless of their skill level. The advantages would be huge, and all players would want to grab such a powerful control scheme to stay competitive.
Very cool and fun, yes, but do we need to gate GSF by something real and expensive? It's gated by experience currently, everyone has the controls and the requisition is a rounding error, and is further gated by having to have a specific MMO installed and running, with the servers up, all to generate an odd GSF lobby populated by people who discuss space wizards and call the GSF lobby "fleet". Gating it by a two hundred dollar set of hardware seems unwise...



Not to poop on the post above, which, again, will actually help you rig up the controller you want. I'm just saying, you'll be reinventing the mouse, not using a flight stick.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
07.07.2017 , 01:32 AM | #27
I'll put this here as it's a few thoughts that don't necessarily pertain to the other three threads.

GSF is a good idea. Who wouldn't want to hop into a sleek fast fighter or bomber for a little fast paced, off rails, PvP action. This is what players were clamouring for from the launch of SWTOR instead of the onrails space missions.

However I find the GSF experience to be lacking. The population is so low that queues don't pop with any frequency for me, this is made worse by the fact I have to be on a specific character to develop a hanger. The flight handling is extremely frustrating although I have no idea of knowing whether this is due to counter abilities my targets are deploying or general lagging (although I sit at 35-50ms I see far more rubber banding in GSF than any other aspect of the game)

I would suggest a few ideas to reinvigorate GSF:

1) Simplify
It's nice that someone got to roll out their own complex gear setups and a wide range of ships. And maybe that style of game has a place on its own terms. But as a side game it's just far too complex. I don't want to have to spend as much if not more time in a sidegame gearing up than I do on the main game.
Strip it back to cookie cutter pre-optimised builds for all players with no gear gap.

2) PvE
GSF needs a better solo experience as it's hard enough to get matches to pop as it is. I find it hard to believe that a 25ish year old game such as Star Wars: Tie Fighter could accomplish this while SWTOR struggles. Not asking for a realistic AI or space to ground transitions. But some moving targets and some flying practice wouldn't go amiss.
I'll put this link here for reference https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBROlgIIPY8

3) More maps and game-types
One of the draws to get me into PvP are new maps and game types.
When GSF first launched I enjoyed capture the satellite as it gave me, primarily a PvE player, something to do while the PvP folk sorted themselves out in dogfights.
The deathmatch mode pretty much killed the game for me.
A better range of maps and game-types that give a balance between ship to ship combat and completing objectives would e nice.

OWENF's Avatar


OWENF
07.07.2017 , 01:50 AM | #28
CAPITAL SHIPS ffs

What makes the Star Wars movies great? FLEET BATTLES! Let us team up to attack/defend capital ships! Maybe even let us spawn as gunners or missile techs on the capital ship (that's lots of new code, I know) but even without being able to spawn as a gunner, we need capital ship assaults. Remember the first Battlefront II? Those space battles, where you had to destroy the different systems on a capital ship/defend them, using fighters? Just do that. Make it 2 part like voidstar - one round defending, one round attacking. Would be so much fun.

Nightblazer's Avatar


Nightblazer
07.07.2017 , 03:29 AM | #29
Should probably lock this thread Eric so posts are made into the one of three threads created. Seems a lot of feedback is being posted here instead of the three specific threads.
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Flingor's Avatar


Flingor
07.07.2017 , 05:35 AM | #30
simply said:
My brain cannot navigate in three-dimensional space, so I am easy bait for people who can. Improving the gameplay will not change this basic fact.

Integrating a 3D action game into an MMO might miss the interests and habits of the player base.