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Why do Dark Side Jedi Knights have "Master" titles instead of "General"? (Knight spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why do Dark Side Jedi Knights have "Master" titles instead of "General"? (Knight spoilers)

Elessara's Avatar


Elessara
05.19.2019 , 07:27 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by KanekiWegner View Post
So just because the Dark JK is not afraid to do what's neccesary he shouldn't be allowed to become a Jedi Master. Well that's ********, Even Satele Shan herself went against the Jedi Code by having a child, but yet she is the grand master. And it's pretty funny tho how much the Jedi have strayed from the original je'dai who sought balance in the force and realised that the dark side isn't evil, you just have to make sure you aren't consumed by it and that you stay in control. And don't understand me wrong, I'm not saying the sith are right, but you have to be honest, by forbidding someone to have a relationship you will only create more negative emotions in that person making it easier for them to fall to the dar side, while if they would allow realtionships they could find the strenght to use the dark side but not fall to it. I mean the jedi counsel is litteraly pushing Jedi to the dark side by setting up those rules, and then they're suprised if a jedi decides to turn to the dark side completely, it's only logical with that many restrictions placed against them. In the end everybody has at least some darkness within them and by isolating that darkness the only thing you're doing is allowing it to grow stronger unnoticed and eventually let jedi fall to the dark side, if they would just accept that darkness and harness it they can learn to control that darkness and draw strenght from it without being controlled by it. But the jedi counsil are to ignorant to see that, and the only reason they don't make you a jedi master is because they know you could change the whole jedi order, but what they don't realise is that it would be a good change, It would be the change that would bring the republic victory over the empire. If they would just allow jedi to tap into their full potential the sith wouldn't stand a chance against them, 'cause those Jedi would wield but the light side and the dark side of the force against the sith who only ever knew the dark side. And if you say that isn't the jedi way, you would be right, but that just means that we should change the jedi way, 'cause it's pretty clear that it doesn't work the way it is right now.
Wall of text, didn't read beyond the first couple lines so I'm only going to reply to that.

It's not against the rules for Jedi to have kids. Some Jedi do take a vow of celibacy and I'm sure that's encouraged but again some Jedi also marry (see the consular story and the Iresso romance). Satele may have had a child but she adhered to the Jedi principles of non-attachment and gave her child up to be raised by someone else even if what she wanted personally was to raise her child herself. That act may actually have helped the Jedi Council to name her Grand Master of the Order.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
05.19.2019 , 09:56 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by KanekiWegner View Post
So just because the Dark JK is not afraid to do what's neccesary he shouldn't be allowed to become a Jedi Master. Well that's ********, Even Satele Shan herself went against the Jedi Code by having a child, but yet she is the grand master. And it's pretty funny tho how much the Jedi have strayed from the original je'dai who sought balance in the force and realised that the dark side isn't evil, you just have to make sure you aren't consumed by it and that you stay in control. And don't understand me wrong, I'm not saying the sith are right, but you have to be honest, by forbidding someone to have a relationship you will only create more negative emotions in that person making it easier for them to fall to the dar side, while if they would allow realtionships they could find the strenght to use the dark side but not fall to it. I mean the jedi counsel is litteraly pushing Jedi to the dark side by setting up those rules, and then they're suprised if a jedi decides to turn to the dark side completely, it's only logical with that many restrictions placed against them. In the end everybody has at least some darkness within them and by isolating that darkness the only thing you're doing is allowing it to grow stronger unnoticed and eventually let jedi fall to the dark side, if they would just accept that darkness and harness it they can learn to control that darkness and draw strenght from it without being controlled by it. But the jedi counsil are to ignorant to see that, and the only reason they don't make you a jedi master is because they know you could change the whole jedi order, but what they don't realise is that it would be a good change, It would be the change that would bring the republic victory over the empire. If they would just allow jedi to tap into their full potential the sith wouldn't stand a chance against them, 'cause those Jedi would wield but the light side and the dark side of the force against the sith who only ever knew the dark side. And if you say that isn't the jedi way, you would be right, but that just means that we should change the jedi way, 'cause it's pretty clear that it doesn't work the way it is right now.

Sorry for the length. They usually don't let me post on the boards very often so I gotta get in where I can before they stick me back in carbonite again for 3 months.


All right, here's the deal. Respectfully, I have no idea where you learned about Star Wars, but most of the things you said we incorrect. I'm only talking about the actual canon/lore.

In Canon, No one is immune to the effects of the Darkside. You use the Darkside over and over you will fall.

There is undeniably no 'Grey' in Star Wars. That's fan fic BS.

Regarding your vaunted 'l je'dai who sought balance in the force and realised that the dark side isn't evil, you just have to make sure you aren't consumed by it and that you stay in control.'

You really need to read up on the particulars. That wasn't a Force Tradtion, that was having a gun put to their head and being told 'You do what I say, believe what I believe' or i'll not only kill you, I'll kill tons of people indiscrimantly.'

Tython had some events that took place there that cause an inordinate amount of Force Nexus. Some were Lightside aligned, some were Darkside aligned. Just in case some may not know what a Force nexus is, an easy example would be the Darkside cave on Dagoboh, Under the Jedi Temple of Coruscant was a Dark Side nexus, and on the island where look hid out in as shown in the Last Jedi.

These abundance of both sides in the nexus caused a 'spacial anomaly' for lack of a better term. What they did on Tython they could not do anywhere else in the galaxy.


I'm going to quote some things from the wiki regarding the Je'daii so there is no chance of misinterpretation or mistakes on my part.

Last time I checked the Force doesn't send Force storms to kill force users who use the force in any manner. Furthermore, the last time I checked the Force doesn't practice 'collective responsibility'. On tython all non force users present the Force would kill given the chance.


"When balance was not maintained, Tython reacted to the imbalance with severe storms and quakes. Only through the harmony of balance could the Je'daii maintain a peaceful world."
―Ketu[src]


The Je'daii were not immune to the effects of the Darkside at all. It had tons of members that fall to the Darkside, in fact, in the end, there has never been any other Force Tradtion that had more of it's members falling to the Darkside than the Je'daii [obviously not including the sith].

"The Je'daii Order's primarily philosophy was that of the Balanceóbecause of Tython's intense reactions to imbalance in the Force, the Je'daii strived to maintain personal balance between the light and dark sides of the Force."

"In keeping with their view of balance, Je'daii who fell too far to either the light or dark were exiled to the opposite moon to meditate until they returned to balance."


"The philosophy of the Balance became essential to survival on Tython, as harmony and balance between Ashla and Bogan maintained the peaceful beauty of Tython and prevented the chaos and destruction that came with imbalance."

"the Je'daii took it upon themselves to police their ranks for those who fell out of balance, and they exiled those who were out of balance to Tython's moons. Those who delved too deep into the dark side were exiled to Ashla and they were kept separate from other exiles by their cuffs and the sentry droids that patrolled the moons"

"However, as the years passed, the Je'daii began to have children who were not Force-sensitive, and it eventually became clear to the Tythans that the planet was not safe for those who could not touch the Force after the city of Aurum was destroyed."

"Any non-Force-sensitives who were born on Tython were tested to see if they possessed any aptitude for the Force, but if not, they were asked to leave the world, as it was unsafe for those who could not touch the Force."


The Force Wars -

"In the ensuing decade, the balance of the Je'daii Order was shattered. Two splinter groups emerged, one which held the Ashla as the main power of good in the universe, and another whose members found power only in the Bogan. In a tumultuous conflict known as the Force Wars, former allies were pitted against each other and all that the Je'daii Order had become was torn asunder."

Nothing forced them to go fully Light or Dark. They did that all on their own.

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Does that sound like 'the Force' to you?

Were they immune to the effects of the Darkside?


Tython was an anomaly, and even that anomaly no longer is present on Tython.
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This game has to obey canon. There is only one Star Wars Universe now, and everything presently in it must comply with Canon. https://r2d2arm.wordpress.com/tag/story-group/

In canon, there is absolutely no 'Grey' whatsoever. [I'm only referring to the concept of force users who could use both sides of the Force and were totally immune to the effects of the Darkside when they used and could not fall to the Darkside,

Even in the EU, non of those alternate Force tradtions allowed for the use of the Darkside without it's understood effects.

Don't say Bendu.

Yeah, I heard Bendu say "I am the one in the middle." and "I don't take sides." Here's what I didn't hear him say -

The word 'Grey' used in any context.
That he could use both sides of the Force.
That when he used the Darkside he was immune from it's effects and he couldn't fall to the Darkside.

Now, you can try and interpet his cryptic states any way you want, but that doesn't mean your right.

The only thing we know for sure about bendu is that when Kanan, a jedi knight called him a coward, he responded by saying "Perhaps it is the will of the Force that the Jedi and all your kind perish." he was clearly angry. Mind you, Bendu and Kanan had been friendly to one another and they had spoken multiple times.

Here's him saying it - https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/3d57079...3-d3daac4208f0
/https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0d700219-63ec-45cc-9c88-c2316aaea919


He took the Form of a Force Storm [Darkside], flew to some other place where Rebels and Imperials were collected and began to rain down bolt's of lightning on them, indiscriminately killing anyone and everyone, he even shot down ships trying to fly away. He had said only one thing the whole time "I BRING DEATH" .

"Jedi and all your kind". So that means more than just the Jedi, all your kind, well, that would mean all force wielders.

Bendu doesn't care about anyone or anything. He's also a mass murderer who kills people with the Force.

The Lucasfilm Story Group has ruled on 'Grey'. There is none. Don't take my word on it, here's them saying it.


"Are 'Grey Jedi' canon or just a fan fic thing?"

Matt Martin [Lucasfilm story group] - 'Yeah its basically a fan thing. It doesn't really make sence with the way the Force works'

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.star...sfilm-response
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"There really is no such thing as 'gray Jedi' in our stories"

-Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]
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Matt Martin [Lucasfilm Story Group] - "Point is it seems implausible to maintain a state of "grey", being a bit light and a bit dark. The dark would take over."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKQPZm5WkAEff_6.jpg
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"The dark side comes at a cost. That cost has to be more than "it makes me a ******"

- Pablo Hidalgo [Lucasfilm Story Group]
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Matt Martin Reponse [Lucasfilm Story Group] - "Ahsoka is a pure good soul. There's no grey there."
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Matt Martin - [Lucasfilm Story Group] - 2018

"I wouldn't consider Qui-Gon grey either [Ashoka]. They're good, light side Force users who happen to shirk some of the dogma of the Jedi Order. Not agreeing with the Jedi doesn't necessarily push one closer to the dark. The Jedi are wrong so often that maybe QG and Ahsoka are right!"



Pablo - Disney stick to Lucas vision
http://i97.servimg.com/u/f97/19/44/90/96/image18.jpg

MikeCobalt's Avatar


MikeCobalt
05.19.2019 , 10:02 PM | #53
Would an Evil dark side force user really *Lead and Command a Light Sided Republic freedom for all army? really?
Without consequences choices are irrelevant, without "Give and Take" the situation is meaningless. Like the Quinn thing long ago, some felt the Need to kill him, but didn't like the results of what they wanted. Choices.

MandFlurry's Avatar


MandFlurry
05.20.2019 , 04:48 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by psandak View Post
basically the same reason why we could kill companions in beta but in live we can't (up until KotFE that is); because enough players failed to realize the consequences of their story actions and turned into crybaby whiners who b****ed and moaned enough that BW said, "F*** it" and altered it so it gave the title of Master even though the story calls them a General.
Thing is , while it was good to be able to kill some so-called companions like Skadge( just my opinion of him). Too many people whined and complained during Beta when they couldn't get those same companions back that they themselves killed. I wished people could just grow up and be able to take their own actions like adults, but we are playing an MMO.

People will whine no matter what, it would be nice to be able to kill the companions we don't like, but until people grow up, and are able to take the responsibility of they do, then unfortunately the Devs don't want to turn the kill switch back on.

Though, they still do talk about that stuff quite a bit.
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