After playing for a while it seems that getting to 248 will just take way too long. Almost all the decent players have top gear. This is upside down. Playing against better players who have better gear who then win more mats, is really uninviting. In golf the better players wisely get less strokes to make for better competition. Some people say all gear should be equal, but I would go further and suggest some kind of nerf for every 100 points of elo above 1500. For every 100 points above 1500 your gear ranking drops 3. Something like that. I do love the interface and the mechanics and the classes. It's a cool fun game and I love the madness of the warzones, and man are some of those players crazy good. I just wish it were more accessible to someone trying to join in.

I've seen on these boards some of the skilled players saying gear doesn't really matter. If so, then they shouldn't really mind.

People say that gear doesn't matter because bolster puts you very close to top level gear anyway... unless you really mess up even bolster I guess by putting on level 14 greens or something. But if you start actually dropping gear effectiveness, then yes, that will make gear matter. And I can see people getting REALLY angry about "wait, I put in all this time to get good at the game, and get good gear, and now the game penalizes me because of that!?"

As far as nerfing skill... Golf is the only sport I've ever heard of that does something like that (and we all know that golf is not really a sport ). But then I'm not much of a "sports fan", so I would not be surprised if there are others.

On the other hand, other sports do have tiers/brackets/whatever-you-call-them. You don't typically see a high school football team taking on an NFL team. That can basically happen in this game if one side gets a fair amount of new people, and the other side gets a good share of "vets". We have the "ranked" tier... but that's not really the same, since anyone can sign up for any tier, and we don't self-police at all.

I think the upcoming matchmaking is going to at least *try* to address the skill imbalance. We haven't seen how well it will really work yet, since the PTS population is always too low. But if it works, that should mean that the new people would get paired up with vets on the same team, and then you should actually have a chance to learn the game and become a "vet" yourself without feeling like you have no chance.

Personally, I would not actually mind a handicap of some kind, if it actually worked. That's probably because I'm not a top-tier player, so I suspect it would help me more than hurt. But that's totally selfish. Unfortunately, I think that in reality it would never work such that even people who supported it thought it was fair. And I also think that a whole bunch of people (probably everyone except me and the original poster) would cry foul about, again, "I put all this work into getting good at this game, and now you nerf me for it!?" And I can see their point. (Although the same could be said for match making... "wait, I put all this time into getting good at this game, and now that makes it guaranteed that I get grouped with BAD players!?")

People say that gear doesn't matter because bolster puts you very close to top level gear anyway... unless you really mess up even bolster I guess by putting on level 14 greens or something. But if you start actually dropping gear effectiveness, then yes, that will make gear matter. And I can see people getting REALLY angry about "wait, I put in all this time to get good at the game, and get good gear, and now the game penalizes me because of that!?"

 

As far as nerfing skill... Golf is the only sport I've ever heard of that does something like that (and we all know that golf is not really a sport ). But then I'm not much of a "sports fan", so I would not be surprised if there are others.

 

On the other hand, other sports do have tiers/brackets/whatever-you-call-them. You don't typically see a high school football team taking on an NFL team. That can basically happen in this game if one side gets a fair amount of new people, and the other side gets a good share of "vets". We have the "ranked" tier... but that's not really the same, since anyone can sign up for any tier, and we don't self-police at all.

 

I think the upcoming matchmaking is going to at least *try* to address the skill imbalance. We haven't seen how well it will really work yet, since the PTS population is always too low. But if it works, that should mean that the new people would get paired up with vets on the same team, and then you should actually have a chance to learn the game and become a "vet" yourself without feeling like you have no chance.

 

Personally, I would not actually mind a handicap of some kind, if it actually worked. That's probably because I'm not a top-tier player, so I suspect it would help me more than hurt. But that's totally selfish. Unfortunately, I think that in reality it would never work such that even people who supported it thought it was fair. And I also think that a whole bunch of people (probably everyone except me and the original poster) would cry foul about, again, "I put all this work into getting good at this game, and now you nerf me for it!?" And I can see their point. (Although the same could be said for match making... "wait, I put all this time into getting good at this game, and now that makes it guaranteed that I get grouped with BAD players!?")

People say a lot of things but gear matters... sorry to break it foryou.

The easiest kills are low geared people. Why ? Because every time I hit him, I produce much bigger numbers than him and I also have extra 15k or 20k HP. Yes, sure.. he is decent and can kite well, but as I said, if I touch him... my numbers will be much greater.

It's simple.. but people say otherwise ? Maybe you shouldn't take those kind of people seriously.

Some people say all gear should be equal, but I would go further and suggest some kind of nerf for every 100 points of elo above 1500. For every 100 points above 1500 your gear ranking drops 3. Something like that. I do love the interface and the mechanics and the classes. It's a cool fun game and I love the madness of the warzones, and man are some of those players crazy good. I just wish it were more accessible to someone trying to join in.

This is ridiculous. Not everyone plays ranked and players should never be punished or handicapped for being good players.

I fully agree that we either need to go back to a reasonable gearing system like what we had in 4.0 where you could farm for pvp currency while leveling and pvping in lowbies with the currency being legacy bound and even without doing that you could reasonably get a full tier just by running through the weekly/dailies on a new toon and only take about 2-3 days, or we just remove gear from pvp completely. Personally I want the 4.0 system back.

Either way, yes I agree what we have now is terrible.

People say a lot of things but gear matters... sorry to break it foryou.

 

The easiest kills are low geared people. Why ? Because every time I hit him, I produce much bigger numbers than him and I also have extra 15k or 20k HP. Yes, sure.. he is decent and can kite well, but as I said, if I touch him... my numbers will be much greater.

 

It's simple.. but people say otherwise ? Maybe you shouldn't take those kind of people seriously.

The easiest kills are bad players.

You have about 8k extra health (unless you are a tank) and do about 5-10% more damage. It's not gear that is why you kill lower geared people easier, it's because lower gear is a quick and easy way to determine skill and how new someone is and whether they know to use their DCD's correctly. And because every automatically targets the person in lower gear, so they get globaled automatically. It's not gear per se, it's that people equate gear with experience/skill, and go for the one with less (and usually, bad gear does equal lower skill/experience, and so it works out).

no.

I queued to test gear disparity 4 months ago on fotm mara, 228 augs, 230 gear. I had bolster support, I knew my class, and..... I got destroyed.

I swappped to my 248 set, I then started taking on 2v1s and winning. gear disparity exists. people are just in denial.

Maybe you shouldn't take those kind of people seriously.

lol. I don't take anybody seriously. This is just a game after all. But I also find, for me personally, I don't notice that much difference between playing my 248 geared sin, and my until-just-recently-about-230 geared shadow. I dunno, maybe that says more about my skill than it does about gear difference. Or about the fact that I almost exclusively solo queue, so my team is always random. And those 7 other people matter.

no.

 

I queued to test gear disparity 4 months ago on fotm mara, 228 augs, 230 gear. I had bolster support, I knew my class, and..... I got destroyed.

 

I swappped to my 248 set, I then started taking on 2v1s and winning. gear disparity exists. people are just in denial.

No.

I can promise you, that you didn't go from losing say a 1v1 in 230s to winning 2v1's against the same players in 248 gear. Gear difference is small, max 10%. It just (due to endurance levels, which should be changed) puts a target over your head that says "new and unskilled player here" and so you get focused, even if that is not true.

And if you went from losing 2v1 to winning a 2v1, I'd be willing to bet that you weren't "destroyed" it was actually pretty close (and also, the 2 you were playing were just not great as well).

I was expecting a complaint about the difference in gear between players, and how someone with 236 gear it at a notable disadvantage, when compared to a max. geared player. I would support that.

This, however, seems rather silly.

No.

 

I can promise you, that you didn't go from losing say a 1v1 in 230s to winning 2v1's against the same players in 248 gear. Gear difference is small, max 10%. It just (due to endurance levels, which should be changed) puts a target over your head that says "new and unskilled player here" and so you get focused, even if that is not true.

 

And if you went from losing 2v1 to winning a 2v1, I'd be willing to bet that you weren't "destroyed" it was actually pretty close (and also, the 2 you were playing were just not great as well).

I did the test on SS solo ranked. when it comes to good players who consistly queue, it wasnt exactly a wide pool

I did the test on SS solo ranked. when it comes to good players who consistly queue, it wasnt exactly a wide pool

So you went into SS ranked, got focused cause you were undergeared and died, went into SS ranked got ignored cause Mara's are (or at least were prior to nerf) really OP as far as survivability goes (and you weren't undergeared, so no one assumed it you were a noob who didn't know what he was doing), and survived. That doesn't actually prove anything except maybe, bolster should make sure everyone has the same HP so noob's don't get targeted. It doesn't mean that the gear is what got you killed, it means you being focused is what got you killed.

Correlation <> causation

I’ve seen some terrible ideas over the years on this pvp forum but this is probably in my top 10.

A gear penalty for every 100 ELO above 1500?

By that logic at 3.5k you’d have me run into arenas naked, slapping dudes with my Champion and leaving my other rifle on my ship.

You’d probably still lose.

So you went into SS ranked, got focused cause you were undergeared and died, went into SS ranked got ignored cause Mara's are (or at least were prior to nerf) really OP as far as survivability goes (and you weren't undergeared, so no one assumed it you were a noob who didn't know what he was doing), and survived. That doesn't actually prove anything except maybe, bolster should make sure everyone has the same HP so noob's don't get targeted. It doesn't mean that the gear is what got you killed, it means you being focused is what got you killed.

 

Correlation <> causation

the only time time you get tunneled for your gear level iin solos is if you dont have a known bad/meme class on you team. in which players will then target lowest gear rating.

this evaluation was not based on "being tunneled" it was based on how long my dcds protected me from inc damage. the difference was vast. I got tunneled in 230 by 3 good players (through my dcds, not globald) I lasted 10 whole seconds before I had to camo. in 248? I lasted under 3 dps tunnel (because I was known at that point for crumbling in 10 secs) I lasted for like 30 seconds before I had to camo, I still had undying after the 30 sec.

the only time time you get tunneled for your gear level iin solos is if you dont have a known bad/meme class on you team. in which players will then target lowest gear rating.

 

this evaluation was not based on "being tunneled" it was based on how long my dcds protected me from inc damage. the difference was vast. I got tunneled in 230 by 3 good players (through my dcds, not globald) I lasted 10 whole seconds before I had to camo. in 248? I lasted under 3 dps tunnel (because I was known at that point for crumbling in 10 secs) I lasted for like 30 seconds before I had to camo, I still had undying after the 30 sec.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe this. You are basically saying that 248 gear vs 242 gear (since that is what 230 bolsters to) provides you with 3x as high DR. Either you are far off in your time estimate, you weren't being tunneled in the 248 gear, or the quality of the dps attacking you was vastly different (which seems the most likely, but also means that your example isn't really useful), or I suppose your teammates were just better and actually peeled for you and healed you (which again, means that your point is not proven at all). Regardless, 248 gear is not 3x as good as 242 gear.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe this. You are basically saying that 248 gear vs 242 gear (since that is what 230 bolsters to) provides you with 3x as high DR. Either you are far off in your time estimate, you weren't being tunneled in the 248 gear, or the quality of the dps attacking you was vastly different (which seems the most likely, but also means that your example isn't really useful), or I suppose your teammates were just better and actually peeled for you and healed you (which again, means that your point is not proven at all). Regardless, 248 gear is not 3x as good as 242 gear.

this is very possible. I honestly dont trust swtors bolster system farther than I can throw it. a lot of players know there are stats differences that dont show on the "status" window, and Iv watched bolster performance for for 4 years now. I used to believe in it, it used to matter little, if you wore pve gear in pvp, you got rektd, and bolster only worked in sm op pve. the differences now (bolster making up for gear differences) offer much more examples to examine... and we've all had 2 years to observe.

I'm sorry, I just don't believe this. You are basically saying that 248 gear vs 242 gear (since that is what 230 bolsters to) provides you with 3x as high DR. Either you are far off in your time estimate, you weren't being tunneled in the 248 gear, or the quality of the dps attacking you was vastly different (which seems the most likely, but also means that your example isn't really useful), or I suppose your teammates were just better and actually peeled for you and healed you (which again, means that your point is not proven at all). Regardless, 248 gear is not 3x as good as 242 gear.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rpCTtEAWYs731zN36riNyPhrUH61IXUNhnH5-GVqENQ/edit#gid=754003953

You are correct. I actually tested 242 to 248 (no augments), the DR difference between 230 bolstered to 248 is .39. lol

I guess ultimatly, it was hp/ability to pressure my enemy that made the difference.

ty hottie for providing a statistical record of the difference.

I guess ultimatly, it was hp/ability to pressure my enemy that made the difference.

 

ty hottie for providing a statistical record of the difference.

yah every little bit matters when your being tunneled by 3 players. a player who has less hp, less damage and less dr will die faster and be less dangerous to play against.

First @OP. Hell no I didn't spend months getting 248 gear just to be nerfed by it. And even late 4.X where they made ranked pvp gear super easy to get I would say no. You should never be punished for grinding out a game. Everyone struggles at first to get the gear. Especially if you don't spend hours and hours on day 1 of a level cap increase.

I remember still gearing out my main and it was a struggle. So I just got 246 mods and it made a huge difference. With that said tho at that time I don't think bolster then was to 242. However even now on some of my alts I notice a pretty big difference when I save up UC and then gear them out all at once. Not only does damage actually goes way up but so does survivability which also increase your dps output. Idk if its the gear itself or the way bolster affects augments. All my characters have at least the 228 augs so going from them to 236 might be a huge jump with regards to bolster.

I'm with Seterade. My experiences shows that gear still matters a bit. Even having 242 gear vs 242 bolstered seems to be a difference.

After playing for a while it seems that getting to 248 will just take way too long. Almost all the decent players have top gear. This is upside down. Playing against better players who have better gear who then win more mats, is really uninviting. In golf the better players wisely get less strokes to make for better competition. Some people say all gear should be equal, but I would go further and suggest some kind of nerf for every 100 points of elo above 1500. For every 100 points above 1500 your gear ranking drops 3. Something like that. I do love the interface and the mechanics and the classes. It's a cool fun game and I love the madness of the warzones, and man are some of those players crazy good. I just wish it were more accessible to someone trying to join in.

 

I've seen on these boards some of the skilled players saying gear doesn't really matter. If so, then they shouldn't really mind.

Here's a thought : learn to play.

Are you a pub btw? Probably.

Fun fact: The blue T4 pieces have more mastery than the gold T4, at the cost of secondary stats, and if you're at command rank 300 would only take you a couple of days to get.

As good as gold? No. But pretty dang close.

Just something to think about while you're complaining about how hard it is to gear.

I get the feeling that the original post was a farewell post. He's saying it is just too much of a slog to get to the point where you can competently join in the fun. In any case, I agree nerfing better players is not going to happen in swtor, but I like the game concept: the better you get the more handicapped you get. Just see how low you can go and still win. But that is not this game and too many people have invested too much time trying to get the edge.

But the poster is right: swtor pvp makes it very hard for a new interested player. Comments like: "I got an idea, learn to play" are totally unhelpful and miss the real message the guy is sending, which was basically just a nice kiss off. The guy was looking for a fun game and he walked into the swtor pvp buzz saw. There are probably a lot of guys like him.

Heh well I bet you haven't tried GSF! In GSF gear (equipment) really matters and a mastered ship and oneshot a fresh ship under several circumstances. In ranked/regs you have bolster to 242, which does help, but is no salvation.

People actually play that?