Despite many frustrating moments I have developed over time a deep love for GSF and fly whenever I can, usually solo but occasionally with a small group. I have flown with mainly PUGs rather than a set group, yet I notice a consistent pattern of the following things that make GSF hard to love most of the time.

1) Pilots not following instructions and generally poor teamwork skills in general

2) Pilots being abusive and domineering towards new players who are trying to figure out controls.

3) Denying players the opportunity to earn medals/requisition to "level" up their ships.

4) Spawn Camping and Triple Capping, both examples of poor sportsmanship in my humble opinion.

5) Continuing to "pile on the score" when the opposing team is clearly overmatched.

Before you snark at me about being a "slang term for a woman's body part" I want you to consider this, would it kill you to allow those younger or less skilled pilots to win now and then? I don't want total equality in the outcome but simply in opportunity for all players and skill levels to be allowed to compete and be competitive. I do the same thing I tell new players to stick with the game within the game, to go read the forums and ask questions about GSF. I know that Bioware pulled the plug on further support for this but we can still keep it alive and fun for all.

In short, follow this simple rule in all things in life "Don't be a Dick!!!"

I fully expect to be mocked for expressing an opinion about how we as adults should act within our community here in SWTOR and GSF in general. But to those who read this and are encouraged to try GSF, welcome aboard.

T'alis

I usually don't encourage spawncamping or triple capping. I also try and give out basic controls if I see a bunch of new pilots in a match.

But there's no way I will LET someone win.

~ Eudoxia

I usually don't encourage spawncamping or triple capping. I also try and give out basic controls if I see a bunch of new pilots in a match.

 

But there's no way I will LET someone win.

 

~ Eudoxia

Agreed, make them earn it but don't make it impossible either

I have been trying to spread the message of holding back enough to where pugs will think there is at least value in queueing up for another game even though they are losing.

The clique will be here shortly to inform you to L2P and tell you all about the wonderful resources they have created to help you L2P. They can't be bothered to change their Super Serious drive to win as hard as possible though. They might switch to a non META ship, but make no mistake they want to roflstomp you as hard as they can. They can only hope that some day you will realize what an honor it was to get beat so bad by their elite skills and what a great learning opportunity it was for you.

I usually don't encourage spawncamping or triple capping. I also try and give out basic controls if I see a bunch of new pilots in a match.

 

But there's no way I will LET someone win.

 

~ Eudoxia

Same. I'll usually use something like a Strike Fighter, at least. I just shake my head at the "l33t aces" who have to use meta scouts on 2-3 shipper teams to get their kills. Much wow.

> 1) Pilots not following instructions and generally poor teamwork skills in general

It takes pilots awhile to get good at this, and consistent solo queuers can be excellent at the game but not so amazing at teamwork. This is just you ranting at players who are worse than you, however, which is funny given the rest of your post.

> 2) Pilots being abusive and domineering

Rare, and sometimes an issue. On the other hand, if they don't get some motivation, might they not stay weak forever? This is a pure pvp game, after all.

> 3) Denying players the opportunity to earn medals/requisition to "level" up their ships.

Haha what? No one owes their teammates whatever various activities are requisition optimal. It's a team game, play as a team. No one is here to help new players farm. Play objectives, peel for your teamates, hold nodes... don't sweat crap like this. If you or anyone else is crying because I won't let a green node go white so you can get some req, or crying because I won't stop capping a white node because you can't boost over in time... that is totally ludicrous. Everyone should play to win, and not QQ about players trying to help that goal happen as excellently as possible.

> 4) Spawn Camping and Triple Capping, both examples of poor sportsmanship in my humble opinion.

Spawn camping requires excessive cooperation on behalf of the camped. On 60% of the maps, it is literally impossible. On the other two maps, you can choose the spawn point, so if a player is picking a camped spawn, that's on them. Those who are camped deserve every death.

As for triple capping, play to win. If you choose to leave an opponent a node because you can defend two but not three, that's fine. If you are doing it to "help" them, well, you're not. And you aren't helping your teammates. It's a team game, with one goal: victory. I feel anything but the best victory you can help deliver is insulting to the enemy forces and letting down your teammates.

> 5) Continuing to "pile on the score" when the opposing team is clearly overmatched.

Vae Victus.

> would it kill you to allow those younger or less skilled pilots to win now and then?

Yea probably.

I have been trying to spread the message of holding back enough to where pugs will think there is at least value in queueing up for another game even though they are losing.

It's a pvp game, you shouldn't assume that the other team is somehow delicate flowers. There's no need for mercy. If you really want to help the other faction, log on to that side. This really sounds like just an opportunity to feel good about yourself and signal some virtue, by loudly attacking the only people forced to listen to you- your teammates.

The clique will be here shortly to inform you to L2P

L2P is optional. No player has to be good at GSF. The zillion guides, videos, forum posts, stickies, that exist in voluminous amounts are there to help those who are willing and able. But L-ing to P is totes optional.

They can't be bothered to change their Super Serious drive to win as hard as possible though.

Why would anyone want to change that? It's correct play.

but make no mistake they want to roflstomp you as hard as they can

I mean, I do, but why are you extrapolating me to everyone else? There are plenty of great pilots that jump through all manner of hoops to help constantly. You probably shouldn't lump them all in with inveterate meanies like me.

They can only hope that some day you will realize what an honor it was to get beat so bad by their elite skills and what a great learning opportunity it was for you.

I mean, when you put it that way, you really do sell it pretty well. But mostly when I shoot at a ship with a red name, I just want him to blow up, and when I make a red sat white, or a white sat green, I'm doing that because that is how to win in the best way possible.

You are in every thread lately being really negative, and encouraging players to NOT play the game as presented, in the hopes I guess of NOT teaching new players how to actually play. Not only is this WRONG, it is also, unrelated to its wrongness, it is doomed to failure, and you know this. If you put some false set of demands on the net of players, you will always find someone to be angry at. You will always be proven right, because you are asking pvp players, presented with a fair game*, to act in an arbitrary manner, with rules not implied by the game in any way. Were you trying to actually change the way people play in a way that makes them less effective as players, or were you just trying to establish a framework where you can get worked up when players constantly fail to meet that standard?

*"fair game" in this case doesn't mean "balanced for all whatevers", it means "fair game"- all players are presented with the same rules, even if strikes still suck, and new players fly as foodships most of the time.

I can keep getting in discussions about my feelings towards three capping, but I may as well just copy/paste at this point. I'm not asking for everyone to agree with me here, but I am also anoyyed when people seem to imply that three capping is inherently immoral for some vague, ill-conceived reason in their minds.

Without further delay:

I personally will not suggest giving away a satellite, since I believe that stacking two satellites with heavily skilled players does not allow for the opposing team to mount any kind of effective attack. Stacking on two satellites is a tactic for advanced games when facing strong opposition, and I do not believe it is sporting to deploy advanced tactics against newer players. When three capping, you spread yourselves thin, and this allows for opportunities for the opposing team to rally and capture, which is what they should be learning to do in these matches. I also see many folks that avoid three capping in order to artificially prolong the game to rack up higher statistics. I believe this is not only an unsportsmanlike way of gaming the statistics system and coming up with dishonest numbers, but it also wastes everyone's time who is in the game, friend and foe alike. We all have lives outside of this game, and when I am in a lopsided Dom match I personally would prefer for it to be over as soon as possible, rather than being extended another 1/3 of match time so one of the dominating players can pad his own numbers. Sometimes the matchmaker produces bad matches, we all know that, but to abuse this is not something I believe we should encourage.

 

There is a bit of a fallacy in this game that somehow feelings are hurt and people wont re-que when they are three capped because they feel helpless. I tend to agree that sometimes that can happen, but usually that takes place not so much due to the three cap, but more so because of the spawn camping, which can often accompany an aggressively mismatched game. More often though, people get upset that they LOSE. Having one satellite does not matter when the end of the match is still a defeat, it is akin to a participation ribbon for losing, which is quickly thrown in the trash. Unless you suggest we should begin a campaign of deliberately throwing the game, I doubt giving one satellite will do anything other than foster frustration due to the extended play time.

 

What you are essentially doing when you decide to hand the opposing team a free, undefended satellite is forcing them to run the tutorial again and "park" their ship on one satellite while slowly awaiting defeat. It really is the exact same thing, and I don't know about you, but after running the tutorial I certainly do not think to myself "what a blast! lets do that again!". There is a reason that the current tutorial is universally despised on this forum, and it is because it's unrepresentative of the majority of the game, it doesn't teach you anything, and it is really, really boring. The only time it makes sense to do this is when the opposing team has clearly never even run the tutorial, and instead of ending the match quickly and humanely like putting down a sick, deformed animal the matchmaker **** out, you instead try to fashion it into an improvised tutorial session.

 

I've been in both situations plenty of times, believe me, and I've talked to scores of new players about this specific issue, and not one of them has ever appreciated being given a free satellite. The whole concept of giving a free satellite reeks of arrogance and misunderstanding in most of the cases I have seen, and are simply a way of making the winning pilots feel better about themselves, rather than actually helping the losers.

 

On the flip side, sometimes players on the opposing team can be just dreadful, and can find issue with even staying within the match boundaries. In these cases I believe that it can be useful to let them learn to pilot and at least let them find a satellite so they know where to go. However, in these situations I will often seek out those players and give them a few pointers after the match, which seems to go a lot further than handing them a pity sat. That being said, I do not often disagree in this situation when my team feels this is the route to follow, the only time I disagree is when I believe the opposition is strong enough to be insulted by our pity.

> 3) Denying players the opportunity to earn medals/requisition to "level" up their ships.

 

Haha what? No one owes their teammates whatever various activities are requisition optimal. It's a team game, play as a team. No one is here to help new players farm. Play objectives, peel for your teamates, hold nodes... don't sweat crap like this. If you or anyone else is crying because I won't let a green node go white so you can get some req, or crying because I won't stop capping a white node because you can't boost over in time... that is totally ludicrous. Everyone should play to win, and not QQ about players trying to help that goal happen as excellently as possible.

 

I don't think the OP was talking about your teammates, but rather, the opposing team. If the opposing team is being picked off shortly after spawning, before reaching an objective or getting to shoot anything, I don't think they're earning any medals to gain (hardly any) reqs to modify their ships. But hey, as long as my ships are modded out, screw everybody else, amiright?

I don't think the OP was talking about your teammates, but rather, the opposing team. If the opposing team is being picked off shortly after spawning, before reaching an objective or getting to shoot anything, I don't think they're earning any medals to gain (hardly any) reqs to modify their ships. But hey, as long as my ships are modded out, screw everybody else, amiright?

Ok, so, enemy ships are enemies during the game, and should be destroyed. You should NOT be helping enemy teammembers farm. This is a pvp game. The players in the red ships are the players you are there to oppose. Deny them req, deny them points, whatever helps your team and hurts them!

If you are concerned about faction balance, log over and play that side some.

 

Why would anyone want to change that? It's correct play.

 

Lies! Lies I say.

Correct play is to kill that battlescout with thermite torpedoes for the third time in a row.

They need to learn about missile breaks and LOS somehow, right?

I suppose if you're fortunate enough to have the game unequip the primary weapon on your T1 scout an acceptable alternative correct play is to spend the whole match rocket pod dogfighting (turning battles naturally).

Correct play occurs when there is no change in playstyle that can make the experience more fun.

The extent to which that involves cutthroat play optimized for victory varies by player and match.

The issue where you get disagreement is on whether sportsmanship involves an obligation to at least consider somewhat reducing one's personal quality of play in order to improve the aggregate quality of play for everyone in the match.

Verain has a bit of a double standard in this regard. If you suggest there's an obligation to go easy on a team of newbs he's not having it. On the other hand, if your team desperately needs a beacon bomber at mid he heartily recommends taking the bomber even if you personally despise flying a bomber.

In fairness, while he might grumble a little bit, he's also not going to go out of his way to be a jerk about it if you choose to fly a stock starguard instead. It's "wrong" in his view, but if wrongness is what floats your boat he'll let you get on with your happy idiocy and only asks that you return the favor when you spend the whole game chasing after targets that he blows up with a slug shot a fraction of a second before you get in range to fire.

It's really a question of personality and culture in regards to how people come down on this question.

Verain's answer is a slightly hypocritical "no."

Lendul's answer is an unconditional "yes."

My answer is to pile on some ridiculous arbitrary self imposed handicap until there's actually some form of challenge in fighting players who are hopelessly outclassed.

None of those approaches are perfect. They're all potentially insulting and demoralizing to the weaker players, and which approach is most repellent to a new player depends on the background of the new player. Something that there's not usually time to take a comprehensive survey of in /general in the minute or so you have in ship selection before the match starts.

The best answer though, is probably not a matter of trying to handicap inadequate matchmaking by adjusting output during a match. It's being friendly, and reaching out to new players. A positive social experience can counteract an awful lot of getting crushed in matches, and a bit of teaching that leads to quick and visible improvement in outcomes on top of that may net a new long term GSF player.

Zuck, Drakkolich, and Despon are particularly good at that, and we could all aspire to be a bit more like them in that regard.

Not getting shot at is impersonal and in a lot of cases not likely to even be noticed.

"Hey, I haven't seen you flying around here before, welcome to GSF," is likely to be noticed, and in most cases appreciated.

I don't think the OP was talking about your teammates, but rather, the opposing team. If the opposing team is being picked off shortly after spawning, before reaching an objective or getting to shoot anything, I don't think they're earning any medals to gain (hardly any) reqs to modify their ships. But hey, as long as my ships are modded out, screw everybody else, amiright?

You are wasting your time arguing with Verain about this. It only understands the difference between 0 & 1 or red and green on this point. It does not understand things like sympathy and empathy or greater social ramifications.

I don't think it's really fair to say that any of these are poor sportsmanship when the game isn't helping in these avenues.

People don't know how to teamwork? Understanding how to soloq teamwork and pick where you're needed and where to go is a learnt skill. Communication is difficult to track when you're in actual fights, unless you're on voicechat, and the game doesn't have that.

Not letting players level up in the system? This isn't the players' fault, it's the system's fault.

Spawncamping/triplecapping? Spawncamping should be addressed directly with more spawnpoints. Triple capping- if you're not supposed to triple cap, why are there three points?

Don't pile on the score? The score is supposed to accurately represent how the match is going.

The only really fair one is 'don't abuse new players' which is a bit obvious.

I really enjoy being oneshot by the guy you know has a fully decked out ship with all the snazzy upgrades... and proceeds to stay on you every single time you show up anywhere he sees you

on my stock starter scout just tryin to do some dailies

hey i hit 5000 damage this one time, it was nice, i blew up a turret, ya know that crap the six man bomber squads spam frickin EVERYWHERE and then just turtle in a hole

or how about the "mega pro super duper scout that likes to rock hug" or the ******e railgunner sitting there behind all the bomber trash

best part is when you line up like 10 shots on a guy, actually nail him, he LIVES THROUGH IT ***, and turns around, and youre dead in 1/2 a second. Thats is just stupid.

yea... good times. i only queue up gsf when i am completely burnt out on everything else, i wont touch it with a ten foot pole if anything else is popping regularly and im not on flashpoint 234234 or warzone 23434 in a row

There is a reason GSF is dead on most servers, those of us that are so far behind yall on learning this thing? Heh, we aint getting farmed 20 times a match to stroke your ego, we just dont queue up again.

Best experience of my life was the other night when a guildie was showing me a few things in a match, he was on the other team, and we went off to the side a bit to let me take some shots at him (i had a hardware issue where my mouse was too sensitive, screwing up my accuracy real bad, at least i got something out of it), some dickhole comes over and starts one shotting me, being oh so pro. Cant learn with people like that. We stopped even trying to show me stuff after the third time, cause the bastard kept doing it.

Yeah, great community experience there.

Guess ill just go read the fricken manual, because reading an article or watching someones damn video is a perfectly acceptable method of ya know, learning how to actually do it in practice. No hands on experience required, only tools you need, read the wiki... yeah right. (seriously, ive been a competitive ground pvper in mmos for almost 20 years, ive never once seen someones youtube video or strategy guide teach the real stuff you need to really know, why would this be any different? hell most of the "real tricks" are closely guarded secrets, cant let that edge slip *shrug*

But I digress, this became an awfully angry rant, but OP is spot on, from my perspective as a noob GSFer trying to even get a few kills to get started without being assrammed by mr pro jock gloryhound over there.

Its the same reason I stopped running premades in SWG, same reason I stopped leading a guild in ESO, same reason i retired from PK in UO and became a PKK, same reason as it always is, I look for competitive pvp, not this drudge slop where its a guaranteed win for the experienced superplayers vs the brand new guys just trying to get started.

Having been on both sides of the coin, I know exactly how toxic it is to a community. So have fun pugstomping and noobwrecking, youre only hurting GSF long term.

I get it, you dont get to choose who youre fighting, believe me I get that one, but to intentionally go out of your way to completely destroy a clearly bad noob thats quite possibly in their first match in weeks or maybe entirely... over and over again... because it makes you hard? Get real. Im more likely to crash into a rock trying desperately to get the hell away from someone i know is going to tear me a new ******e than try to engage you, go fight the other guys, im clearly not a threat yet. Damn.

I fully agree with the last post. It's probably too late now guys..."you have done this to yourself Anakin".

I also started PvP in MMO's as a Pker in UO. Was on Europa server and the faction battles between the chaos (cant remember full plate knight style guys) was fun. The first time i ever killed someone in an MMO was at the penal colony lol...had to kill him for his bandages as i had no scissors.

To be constructive: I think if they added a PvE element to GSF it might help. It would give a lot more exposure to the GSF system and it's controls, combat etc to a lot more players. Some of those players will find themselves being drawn to PvP and the population would greatly increase. Obviously a rework of the progression system to help them catch up would help.

Realistically, Bioware have given it no attention and that in itself is telling. Any potential playerbase has been culled out of the door. About as "pro" as clubbing baby seals.

The players who 3-cap and spawn camp should be the one's complaining about why gsf doesn't pop for 1hr or more after they do such an action.

This may not be the case on Harb / TRE but it is the case on all other servers.

Do you want more then 1 match? Yep, everyone does.

Then don't 3cap or spawncamp.

(seriously, ive been a competitive ground pvper in mmos for almost 20 years, ive never once seen someones youtube video or strategy guide teach the real stuff you need to really know, why would this be any different? hell most of the "real tricks" are closely guarded secrets, cant let that edge slip *shrug*

Um, no. Sorry to shatter your perception, but there aren't 'real tricks' hidden away that are locked in the knowledge vault. Teaching you the real stuff that you really need to know is very specifically what I've aimed to do in the GSF School tutorials, chats, and guides I've written. We go in-depth on the techniques you need to learn, and you can see it all in-action. Kind of hard to keep secrets when you can literally see every single move being made in video.

Additionally, there are a great number of veteran players (I'd not hesitate to say 'nearly all' of them) that will gladly group with you, answer any of your questions, and via being in a group with you they will be drawing fire and focus so you have more time to learn the game. So try this: instead of demonizing people with all the invective you're tossing around, try finding them in-game, and ask them to group up. Pick their brain, see what you can learn, and grow from the experience. Competitive games are far, far more fun than one-sided ones.

same reason as it always is, I look for competitive pvp, not this drudge slop where its a guaranteed win for the experienced superplayers vs the brand new guys just trying to get started.

Competitive games are the best. I don't look for 'guaranteed' wins by any stretch of the imagination, and neither do the many pilots I know who have been playing for a long time. A 'guaranteed' win is a waste of twenty minutes. The point of all of the tutorial resources I've made is to help people achieve competency and hopefully excel, so that there will be fewer 'guaranteed' wins and more quality matches.

Im more likely to crash into a rock trying desperately to get the hell away from someone i know is going to tear me a new ******e than try to engage you, go fight the other guys, im clearly not a threat yet. Damn.

My sincere advice to you is: group up with experienced players and be open-minded to their advice. Having some experienced players on your side by default will help to boost the level of competition in your matches and give you room to maneuver. What server are you playing on? There are people pretty much anywhere who will be glad to help. There are no super-secret tricks or tips, and there are many people willing to help you get competitive.

I fully agree with the last post. It's probably too late now guys..."you have done this to yourself Anakin".

...

Realistically, Bioware have given it no attention and that in itself is telling. Any potential playerbase has been culled out of the door. About as "pro" as clubbing baby seals.

I guess all the players filling up a constant stream of 12v12 matches lately are imaginary?

GSF's woes, and SWTORs in general, stem from an absolute lack of direction (and indeed, many changes in direction) from the publisher. In no game, ever, has it been decided 'welp, the players are too mean! Guess we failed. *hands thrown up in air* shut it down.' If developers see abusive practices in a game, they change the game. If they see balance issues, they patch in balance changes. GSF changed drastically from when it was launched to when EA pulled funding for it, and further changes were already partially developed that never made it in. There is a whole ship class, Infiltrators, that would have rounded out the game and would have shown the worth of a whole lot of now-useless components.

Again, I suggest: if you are struggling with GSF and want to enjoy more competitive matches, instead of demonizing successful players, try learning from them. Group with them, seek advice, and you will improve.

- Despon

You apparently have never had the privilege of seeing it pug without Drak and therefore lose due to not being carried. It will lambast its team with reckless abandon. In fact if you watch Drak's stream very much it doesn't even handle being pressured without its personality idiosyncrasies showing up.

Lendul ran out of any ability to argue, instead accusing me of being carried, losing in solo, and libelously calling me a narcissist and a psychopath. Absolutely perfect, let your hate flow through you!

I really enjoy being oneshot by the guy you know has a fully decked out ship with all the snazzy upgrades... and proceeds to stay on you every single time you show up anywhere he sees you

Is this a common problem, or is this in your head? I definitely see people trying to hunt me down, sometimes unreasonably so. Most of the time, however, it is totally reasonable. If I'm playing a ship that is blowing up your buddies or holding a node, and I've been even vaguely competent at it, it is almost always worth attempting to stop that. That's how the game works! Basically, if you make yourself a target, either by being so bad that destroying you takes almost no effort, or by being so good that it is worth divesting resources into peeling or destroying you, you are going to get blown up, totally reasonably and rationally. Your comment makes it sound like these guys have some beef with you, personally. I feel that is unlikely in almost all cases.

Heh, we aint getting farmed 20 times a match to stroke your ego, we just dont queue up again.

I don't really believe this for a second. GSF's queue pops on any server are in proportion to the players on that server, and also in proportion to whether Bioware has decided to provide similar incentive for play-minute to other tasks in the game. Currently, the reward per time in GSF is similar to the reward per time in other pvp, and our queues are popping ludicrously, at literally any time, on big servers. In the evening, we end up with two active games, often two active 12v12s. If Bioware buffs the rewards elsewhere such that GSF is no longer even, or nerfs GSF rewards, suddenly we'll have less. But even during large swaths of time where GSF gives not very great rewards compared to the rest of the game ("story xp times 12"), there's STILL enough pops to play the game at almost any time, on any of the consensus servers.

This particular complaint is present in a huge variety of games, and it never reflects reality. You don't own the queues, you don't control the game. You're just angry....

or how about the "mega pro super duper scout that likes to rock hug" or the ******e railgunner sitting there behind all the bomber trash

...literally at the existence of rocks.

Best experience of my life was the other night when a guildie was showing me a few things in a match, he was on the other team, and we went off to the side a bit to let me take some shots at him (i had a hardware issue where my mouse was too sensitive, screwing up my accuracy real bad, at least i got something out of it), some dickhole comes over and starts one shotting me, being oh so pro. Cant learn with people like that. We stopped even trying to show me stuff after the third time, cause the bastard kept doing it.

This is the only part of your post I have some sympathy with. On the face of it, you deserve what you got: you were in a live pvp game, you were around 10% of the players on your team, and you were an easy kill, so you got what is coming to you. But you AND your friend were both out of the action for the purpose of training, and the pvp map is the ONLY place you can do this- you can't queue with a friend into a 1v1 training / practice arena. If we had that, our numbers and theorycraft would be about an order of magnitude better than it is.

Here's my suggestions for this:

1)- Only do this on a domination. On a deathmatch, you and your friend are too important to the totals of the map to be screwing around like that. On a domination, turning a game into a 7v7 is way less damaging to the game.

2)- Both of you announce in ops chat as to what you are doing. If there's one guy who won't leave you (or him) alone, take the battle to the offended players capship, or near it. If you were within range of your cap ship turrents and your friend just outside of that range, that will really make the other guy think twice about ignoring objectives just to maybe get a kill. If the both teams have a guy messing with you two, well, both of you just play normally.

3)- Don't be ANYWHERE near an objective (satellite, beacon, roosting gunship).

This segues into a technical complaint about the game, and a valid one. But overall, you should expect no sympathy from players, and you shouldn't be angry if they aren't willing to let you turn their pvp game into a training mission for only your benefit, even if only in part.

(seriously, ive been a competitive ground pvper in mmos for almost 20 years, ive never once seen someones youtube video or strategy guide teach the real stuff you need to really know, why would this be any different?

I'd say no one is holding back the secret sauce, but I can only speak for the players I know well. Drako is holding nothing back, I know that for a fact. The GSF School I am pretty damned sure is holding nothing back. Almost everything that a player is doing is represented visibly on the GUI anyway, so even a high dps scout showing you how fierce he is without much commentary isn't keeping some secret tech. You can watch his power settings, see every primary and secondary weapon, see every ability trigger. The idea that you are assuming everyone is making videos for a relatively small audience and keeping everyone in the dark about all the REAL GOOD STUFF... I mean, that's the crappiest GSF Illuminati theory possible, man. And definitely insulting to the players who have spent hours providing training content to a reasonably small subsection of a reasonably small MMO.

Its the same reason I stopped running premades in SWG, same reason I stopped leading a guild in ESO, same reason i retired from PK in UO

So this is probably not a GSF specific issue, it's a *you* specific issue, right?

The players who 3-cap and spawn camp should be the one's complaining about why gsf doesn't pop for 1hr or more after they do such an action.

Again, queue pops seem entirely unrelated to this. If eating foodships was killing the game, it would have been dead LONG ago. Instead, it is doing better than ever. The GSF pops seems ONLY related to 1) Number of players on a server and 2) whether the game properly rewards time spent in a GSF match as compared to time spent in another SWTOR activity. If you are on a server with a big population, and GSF time isn't being unduly punished by the devs, the queues pop fine. Your argument is as old as the game, and GSF is more popular than at most times in the game.

Verain has a bit of a double standard in this regard. If you suggest there's an obligation to go easy on a team of newbs he's not having it. On the other hand, if your team desperately needs a beacon bomber at mid he heartily recommends taking the bomber even if you personally despise flying a bomber.

The distinction I'm usually drawing is that you have an implied obligation to help your team, and an obligation to hurt the enemy team (which helps your team). It's a team game, after all, and you aren't responsible for optimizing the fun and success of the enemy team, but you kinda have that implied obligation for YOUR team. I do see your point about not wanting to play the most team-synergy ship possible at all times, of course. I feel that wouldn't be so much of a discussion point if Bioware had followed through on their strike buffs, because you wouldn't end up with players who were stuck with a great concept and playstyle that was so poorly rewarded by the game balance. In principle the discussion point would still be around, but it wouldn't carry much impact, it would be mostly academic.

Annnnd the clique arrives to tell the people that they are wrong for not queuing LOL. Let the confirmation bias......beeeeeeggggggiiiiinnnn

They can queue or not as they please. If they don't like the game, there's no reason for them to spend their time playing it. If they want to improve at the game, there are plenty of ways they can go about that which will be more productive than ranting out easily disproven arguments. I offer them ways to improve.

Btw, membership in 'the clique' is free, and there is no entrance exam. All you have to do is ask, and you're in! In fact, everyone is in by default if they're playing GSF.

- Despon

They can queue or not as they please. If they don't like the game, there's no reason for them to spend their time playing it. If they want to improve at the game, there are plenty of ways they can go about that which will be more productive than ranting out easily disproven arguments. I offer them ways to improve.

 

Btw, membership in 'the clique' is free, and there is no extrance exam. All you have to do is ask, and you're in! In fact, everyone is in by default if they're playing GSF.

 

- Despon

Here is the new information you and Verain seem incapable of assimilating. It's not that they do not like the game. They do not like the environment you are creating within the game. This is why I show you little to no respect. It's your unwillingness to take responsibility for what your actions do. You seem completely incapable of admitting that your actions have a negative impact on others.

Again, queue pops seem entirely unrelated to this. If eating foodships was killing the game, it would have been dead LONG ago. Instead, it is doing better than ever. The GSF pops seems ONLY related to 1) Number of players on a server and 2) whether the game properly rewards time spent in a GSF match as compared to time spent in another SWTOR activity. If you are on a server with a big population, and GSF time isn't being unduly punished by the devs, the queues pop fine. Your argument is as old as the game, and GSF is more popular than at most times in the game.

Thats why I mentioned Harb / TRE being the exclusion. If you like winning 1000-0 / get everyone on your team use gunships and sit 10k from each opposing spawn point, pretty much a guarantee that the people you farmed will not queue again.

Here is the new information you and Verain seem incapable of assimilating. It's not that they do not like the game. They do not like the environment you are creating within the game. This is why I show you little to no respect. It's your unwillingness to take responsibility for what your actions do. You seem completely incapable of admitting that your actions have a negative impact on others.

Oh, I thought you showed me little respect because your dark triad traits pushed you towards antisocial behavior and being disagreeable. Thanks for clearing that up.

The environment I create within the game is one where help is available to anyone who seeks it out. I routinely group with inexperienced players. I offer advice to help people improve in pubilc GSF chat, in specific GSF School chats, and personally one-on-one. I provide teams I am on with my best efforts at helping them succeed. I have run literally hundreds of games in stock and near-stock ships these past few months, usually solo-queuing into whatever gets thrown at me. Should I also wear sackcloth and gnash my teeth?

The one thing I am incapable of is kowtowing to doomsayers, bile-spewers, and forces of constant negativity.

The only ones on the outside looking in are those that choose to be. The vast majority of GSF pilots will go out of their way to help new players enjoy the game.

- Despon

The players who 3-cap and spawn camp should be the one's complaining about why gsf doesn't pop for 1hr or more after they do such an action.

This may not be the case on Harb / TRE but it is the case on all other servers.

 

Do you want more then 1 match? Yep, everyone does.

Then don't 3cap or spawncamp.

As valid as many of the various points being made in this thread are, I'm going to back up Traesha on this.

She and I usually queue together and just the two of us can be enough to win many matches on JC, and coupled with a competent team we can easily 3-cap or push the enemy back to spawn. We can tell when we just killed the queue by 3-capping or (even if not spawncamping we usually don't) wiping out a noob group 50-3 or whatever. And JC has a pretty healthy GSF population.

Seeing the final score can be demoralizing, and I think maybe some people should consider how morale works. If soldiers in a war are defeated and demoralized, what effect does that have on recruits coming to the warfront, or reinforcements, or units nearby already deployed? You know, someone comes out of a bad match and someone else says "how's the queue", and they reply "just got crushed." Some people will say "We'll let's queue up and fix that" (like me) while many others will either leave for the winning side or not queue and do something else to wait for it to be better later on.

I can also say that when pub side sucks, and it's pretty much just Traesha and I carrying as best we can, and then we get an Imp group with Nyyah or Choque or etc queued up and they push us back to spawn or 3-cap, even we don't want to queue up again.

I also wanted to mention that the earlier comment about being social and positive does have a big effect, and also that what Verain said about solo queuers and teamwork is also true. Plenty of good pilots on JC, but only a small number of them can work effectively as a team. Put a half-*** "premade" in queue or give one side one good pilot with leadership skills and it can totally skew who's winning the matches. I've had plenty of games where we had all 5-shippers and lost because they couldn't coordinate.

My 2 cents.

~ Eudoxia