Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

3-4 healers on teams?

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.18.2018 , 11:44 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
According to what Eric said arenas will not be even poping due to the matchmaking system. They will only pop when the que is very very small.
I wish he would tell us what the threshold is. It could be 10, 20, 40... who knows. Very very small means different things to different people

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.18.2018 , 12:57 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I wish he would tell us what the threshold is. It could be 10, 20, 40... who knows. Very very small means different things to different people
16. At least as planned/stated.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]The Unranked Warzone queue will now always prioritize Warzones over Arenas. An Arena match will only pop if there are not enough players to populate a full Warzone match at that time.
Dragonslayer Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Elenmil the Revanchist - Scoundrel
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.19.2018 , 12:33 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
16. At least as planned/stated.
That is a bit hazy though. Because if you were to go solely on that point, no body in regs would ever play an arena again unless there were less than 16 people in the queue.

Iím assuming there must be a slightly higher number than that when they make a transition, maybe between 16-30, which is still less than 2 full 8 man matches.

It would just be good to have some hard numbers from Bioware so were can test it.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.19.2018 , 01:13 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
That is a bit hazy though. Because if you were to go solely on that point, no body in regs would ever play an arena again unless there were less than 16 people in the queue.

Iím assuming there must be a slightly higher number than that when they make a transition, maybe between 16-30, which is still less than 2 full 8 man matches.

It would just be good to have some hard numbers from Bioware so were can test it.
I think that is exactly the plan. If you want to do Arena's, play ranked.

I'm sure there is some kind of time limit, because if you think about it, there will almost always be less than 16 people in queue (after all, if there are 16 people in queue, than a WZ can pop).

I assume they have it set up like this:
If <16 people in queue, start countdown from (I dunno, 10 minutes?). If it reaches 0, do an Arena.
If >=16 people, try to do matchmaking
If no more than 2 heals and 2 tanks per team can be created, make WZ.
If not, start countdown (I dunno, 5 minutes?) If it reaches 0, allow up to 5 total tanks/heals per team (but no more than 3 of either). Then start another countdown, and continue expanding until its literally only heals/tanks, and that point a match has to start, as long as there are still 16 people in queue.

Anyway, the latter point I obviously don't know, but it seems pretty clear from Eric's statement that if a WZ can be created, it will always take priority over creating an arena. I hope I'm wrong, because that will just make ranked even more brutal for new folks if they can't even practice arena's in regs, but unless he clarifies, I think that is a safe assumption.

A good test would be did any arena's pop during the scheduled PVP times? If not, then Eric's statement is probably true.
Dragonslayer Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Elenmil the Revanchist - Scoundrel
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
07.19.2018 , 01:21 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
That is a bit hazy though. Because if you were to go solely on that point, no body in regs would ever play an arena again unless there were less than 16 people in the queue.

Iím assuming there must be a slightly higher number than that when they make a transition, maybe between 16-30, which is still less than 2 full 8 man matches.

It would just be good to have some hard numbers from Bioware so were can test it.
Actually, if you went by what was actually written by Eric ("An Arena match will only pop if there are not enough players to populate a full Warzone match at that time"), he doesn't mention waiting at all, so you would never play a regs match again unless all 16 queued at the exact same time. Because it would go...

1 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
2 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
3 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
4 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
5 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
6 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
7 queued, not enough for 8s, not enough for 4s
8 queued, not enough for 8s, IS enough for 4s.... POP.

Even throwing in full 4 man premades, chances are there would be 8-15 people in the queue before the 16th joined, and so the arena would pop if it were just "there's not enough in the queue for regs".

So obviously there HAS to be some time limit where it waits for 16. And that's not even taking into consideration what happens if 6 of those 16 are healers (where, based on the almost instant pops during PTS "prime time", it just goes ahead and starts a match with 3 healers on a side, instead of waiting more because of the '2 healer limit').

But I doubt bioware will tell us the exact wait time, because they'll probably tweak it to get the arena-to-8s ratio where they want it in their overall stats. It would be nice if they'd give us a rough estimate though. Will it wait 5 minutes for 16 people? 3 minutes? 10 seconds?
Ingracious, TheMightyQuinn, Rockin Robin - SS
Slippery When'wet - SF

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
07.19.2018 , 01:28 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
I'm sure there is some kind of time limit, because if you think about it, there will almost always be less than 16 people in queue (after all, if there are 16 people in queue, than a WZ can pop).
Shoot, you said it first. I guess you win the forum PvP this round!

Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
I hope I'm wrong, because that will just make ranked even more brutal for new folks if they can't even practice arena's in regs, but unless he clarifies, I think that is a safe assumption.
I thought that was part of the focus of the new stronghold. I admit I didn't pay that much attention to the Rishi SH, since I don't really get into the doll houses. But can't people set up basically 4v4 matches there and practice?

Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
A good test would be did any arena's pop during the scheduled PVP times? If not, then Eric's statement is probably true.
I saw a few. They only happened at the start and end if I remember correctly. I know the first 2 hour slot on Saturday, I took screens of almost all the games I had. I had 1 arena at the start (which was 1/2 after it started - so maybe that counts as "prime time"?). Then all 8s until it was winding down, and one arena at the end.
Ingracious, TheMightyQuinn, Rockin Robin - SS
Slippery When'wet - SF

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.19.2018 , 01:47 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
Shoot, you said it first. I guess you win the forum PvP this round!



I thought that was part of the focus of the new stronghold. I admit I didn't pay that much attention to the Rishi SH, since I don't really get into the doll houses. But can't people set up basically 4v4 matches there and practice?



I saw a few. They only happened at the start and end if I remember correctly. I know the first 2 hour slot on Saturday, I took screens of almost all the games I had. I had 1 arena at the start (which was 1/2 after it started - so maybe that counts as "prime time"?). Then all 8s until it was winding down, and one arena at the end.
Haha hooray! Another forum pvp victory!

I guess? Still, solo arena regs I think are still a better prep for yolo's then playing with 7 friends in my opinion, just in the likelihood of toxicity if nothing else

How long had you been waiting for a pop both times? That would probably give us a good indicator of the countdown. And was it the very first match you played? Because I'm also thinking that the timer would either have to be from the first person to get in queue, or from whenever there are 8 people. I would assume it is from the first person, because if it is 8 people, one person could leave queue, one jump back in, and so on and so forth and there would never be a pop. But even if you hopped on and got a pop pretty quickly, if there was someone waiting 25 minutes for a pop, that would explain it.

Also, how long did you wait for the one at the end as well? That is probably a better litmus (as it'll at least give us a range, however long you waited+the length of you last match is probably the max time the game would wait).
Dragonslayer Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Elenmil the Revanchist - Scoundrel
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
07.19.2018 , 01:59 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
Also, how long did you wait for the one at the end as well? That is probably a better litmus (as it'll at least give us a range, however long you waited+the length of you last match is probably the max time the game would wait).
The first one I don't remember. However, I also don't remember having to wait any significant number of minutes for that first pop. If it had been 10 or even 5 minutes I probably would have noticed that.

I was going to say, "I don't really remember" for the one at the end too... and I don't. However, I have screen shots! I have a closing score screen from the one before at 1:35 PM (EST) and I have one where we are in the spawn area of round 2 of the arena at 1:41 PM. So that's 6 minutes to get from the score screen of one game, into the next game, and through the first round. And that arena was a 2 healer 2 DPS each side, so they were not short rounds. We ended the arena at 1:48 PM - them winning 2 rounds in a row. Which leads me to conclude that we must have gotten the arena pop almost immediately upon exiting the match before.
Ingracious, TheMightyQuinn, Rockin Robin - SS
Slippery When'wet - SF

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.19.2018 , 02:09 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by Banderal View Post
The first one I don't remember. However, I also don't remember having to wait any significant number of minutes for that first pop. If it had been 10 or even 5 minutes I probably would have noticed that.

I was going to say, "I don't really remember" for the one at the end too... and I don't. However, I have screen shots! I have a closing score screen from the one before at 1:35 PM (EST) and I have one where we are in the spawn area of round 2 of the arena at 1:41 PM. So that's 6 minutes to get from the score screen of one game, into the next game, and through the first round. And that arena was a 2 healer 2 DPS each side, so they were not short rounds. We ended the arena at 1:48 PM - them winning 2 rounds in a row. Which leads me to conclude that we must have gotten the arena pop almost immediately upon exiting the match before.
Ok, so I think we can assume that the timer is based on the first person in queue, and that the time is somewhere between 5 minutes and 16 minutes. Soooo 10 minutes seems like a decent bet? And that is the longest any single person would wait, everyone else would wait for a shorter time.
Dragonslayer Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Elenmil the Revanchist - Scoundrel
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
07.19.2018 , 02:16 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
Ok, so I think we can assume that the timer is based on the first person in queue, and that the time is somewhere between 5 minutes and 16 minutes. Soooo 10 minutes seems like a decent bet? And that is the longest any single person would wait, everyone else would wait for a shorter time.
Oh, I see what you mean. As in... if I get out of a match, we'll call it #7. And I queue for match #8... and at that point there has been someone, anyone, in the queue for 11 minutes (we'll say 10 is the threshold), and also there are 7 people in the queue. Then I'll get an immediate arena pop. However, if the longest anyone has been in the queue is 9 minutes, then we would all wait another minutes (or until 16 people showed up, whichever happened first).

I hadn't thought of it that way... I was thinking in terms of "how long did *I* wait" - because of course I'm a selfish bastard. But what I think you are saying... that make sense. I think that's a good theory.
Ingracious, TheMightyQuinn, Rockin Robin - SS
Slippery When'wet - SF