Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

3-4 healers on teams?

First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.16.2018 , 11:57 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Rafiknoll View Post
As long as the "loosened rules" are about breaking the limits rather than breaking the balance, I think we can live with that. I mean, if the worst case scenario is 3+ healers in each group it is still an improvement from the currently possible 3 healers versus 0 healers...
Sorry Rafi, but that isn’t the case. 3 healers per team is even worse than 3-0 healer teams. At least the game will end
faster and some players can actually kill stuff.

When you have 3-3 or even 2-2, the whole match becomes one big parsing exercise and isn’t fun for anyone but those healers. The game’s also go for longer, which I believe is the opposite of what Bioware are going for in this patch.


Stalemates don’t help anyone, especially testing on the pts.

If I may offer a reason for so many healers on the pts? They maybe there to see how this new system will work and how long they may have to wait for pops if there are a lot of healers in the queue.

But relaxing the rules or system to accommodate those extra healers, they are doing more harm than good.

First, if they do impliment it properly on the live servers and it’s bugged, they won’t know until it’s live. That negates the whole point of pts testing to reduce bugs going live.

Second, they distort the other testing on changes in maps like Void Star because the matches are statements and you can’t test it.

Third, it gives the wrong impression to those healers that they should just keep trying to over populate matches because the queue will relax the rules if they can get enough of them in it,

Point number 3 is particular troubling because people who like to over stack healers maybe trying to work out tactics on the pts to allow them to overload (exploit) the queue rules so they can keep having 3-4 healers on a team.


It’s for those reasons that those rules should be ridgid and not flexible as it allows the system to be exploited for certain individuals.

My honest opinion is even two healers per match is too much under the current meta because all classes have pretty good DCDs and healers are mostly OP because of it.
I’d be happy if it was limited to 1 healer and 2 tanks per match.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.17.2018 , 12:01 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Syal View Post
just replace empty slot by AI... issue solved !
A better solution is starting the match with less players or just making arena matches.

Ld-Siris's Avatar


Ld-Siris
07.17.2018 , 08:02 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
I could be misinterpreting what Eric said, but I think it's more of a "after 5 minutes without enough people for a optimal pop, there can now be a max of 3 heals per team instead of 2, after 10 minutes there can now be a max of 4 heals instead of 3, etc." and not a check based on % of each role in queue.

Honestly, they do need to have something like this. In live it probably wont happen much, and if it does they should increase the time, but at a certain point you should just get a pop, and if you arent willing to play in a match with more than 2 heals, quit and log off, because at that point there just arent enough people anyway.
Well they stated that the goal was faster matches and more pops (besides more even matches) so waiting x minutes to go by is counter to that. Matchmaking is trying to set up matches as quick as possible if there is a que.

Ld-Siris's Avatar


Ld-Siris
07.17.2018 , 08:22 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Sorry Rafi, but that isn’t the case. 3 healers per team is even worse than 3-0 healer teams. At least the game will end
faster and some players can actually kill stuff.

When you have 3-3 or even 2-2, the whole match becomes one big parsing exercise and isn’t fun for anyone but those healers. The game’s also go for longer, which I believe is the opposite of what Bioware are going for in this patch.


Stalemates don’t help anyone, especially testing on the pts.

Snip

My honest opinion is even two healers per match is too much under the current meta because all classes have pretty good DCDs and healers are mostly OP because of it.
I’d be happy if it was limited to 1 healer and 2 tanks per match.
Firstly it does help the pts because you can actually see match making working. If it was 3-0 healers the match making obviously failed. With the surplus of healers we can actually see how match making behaves. It doesn’t matter how long the actual match is because the purpose is to test matchmaking not the actual match. (Well ok yes for the insta kill spots but that’s a different topic). Secondly I prefer a match to have 3-3 bacuase over 3-0 because of several reasons. Mainly it makes winning the warzone by other tactics than just dpsing. And besides. I pvp to enjoy the matches not just to complete a match quota.

And no you can’t just limit 1 healer per match because not all healers are the same. Op heals is sustain hps, sorc is hybrid (quasi) and merc is burst hps. It could completely lob side a match just as bad as 3-0.

MandFlurry's Avatar


MandFlurry
07.17.2018 , 03:09 PM | #25
Eric, i do disagree on how the Team may think number of people is more important, than if the other team is Overpowered, and truthfully, that is a Huuuuge reason why i will quit a match. Because it's never ever worth my time tp get ps'd about, especially when i have work to do the next day, or am only here for a good time like other players are like me.
Got CE on 7/20/11
Canderous Ordo ServerRegulator
Referral for Star Wars Goodness
http://www.swtor.com/user/ce/3k4e

Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
07.17.2018 , 04:26 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Ld-Siris View Post
Well they stated that the goal was faster matches and more pops (besides more even matches) so waiting x minutes to go by is counter to that. Matchmaking is trying to set up matches as quick as possible if there is a que.
Not really. The longer the wait, the more people will be in queue and the better of a matchmaking you can make. For example, if there's a warzone that's 1 minute away from ending, it is better to wait that minute before popping so more people will be in queue.
The devs need to find a balance between waiting too short (and not getting enough players in queue for a good matchmaking) and waiting too long.
Scoundrel healer. Raid leader. Guild officer @ Tulak Hord

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
07.17.2018 , 04:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
When you have 3-3 or even 2-2, the whole match becomes one big parsing exercise and isn’t fun for anyone but those healers. The game’s also go for longer, which I believe is the opposite of what Bioware are going for in this patch.
Why do you think healers like parsing matches more than other roles do?

I don't want faster pops, I want better games that are fun to play. If I'm in the mood to play heals, not dps, then I won't switch roles to avoid the multiple healer games, I'll just stop queing for matches.

Same as arena's - if too many arena's start to pop in unranked then I will quit queing. Warzones and Arena's are two very different types of games.

If Bioware prioritizes quantity of pops over the quality of matches, then I don't think I am the only player who end up queing less, or even not queing at all.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.17.2018 , 06:21 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
Why do you think healers like parsing matches more than other roles do?

I don't want faster pops, I want better games that are fun to play. If I'm in the mood to play heals, not dps, then I won't switch roles to avoid the multiple healer games, I'll just stop queing for matches.

Same as arena's - if too many arena's start to pop in unranked then I will quit queing. Warzones and Arena's are two very different types of games.

If Bioware prioritizes quantity of pops over the quality of matches, then I don't think I am the only player who end up queing less, or even not queing at all.
You are probably not the only one who ends up queuing less, but likewise there are plenty of folks who will also queue less if they go for quality over quantity. BW has to find the sweet spot, and they've made it clear many times they value quantity over quality (the fact that premades are not a separate queue is enough proof for this). Obviously BW is the only one with the numbers, but I'm sure a lot of people do value quantity of quality, after all, at least a bad match progresses the daily and the weekly whereas no match doesn't. And if you've only got 30 minutes, waiting 25 for a match to pop isnt going to get your daily done.
Dragonslayer Mitthendil the Revanchist - Mercenary ||
Mitth'raw'nurudo from Beyond - Powertech || Elenmil the Revanchist - Scoundrel
Click this to say thank you if my post was helpful! :
http://www.swtor.com/r/lGKMGB

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.17.2018 , 10:43 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
Why do you think healers like parsing matches more than other roles do?

I don't want faster pops, I want better games that are fun to play. If I'm in the mood to play heals, not dps, then I won't switch roles to avoid the multiple healer games, I'll just stop queing for matches.

Same as arena's - if too many arena's start to pop in unranked then I will quit queing. Warzones and Arena's are two very different types of games.

If Bioware prioritizes quantity of pops over the quality of matches, then I don't think I am the only player who end up queing less, or even not queing at all.
Obviously not “all” healers. There are obviously ledgitmate healers out there.
But you only need to look at the live servers and obviously the pts to realise that lots of healers group together or just don’t self regulate when they see a stack of healers in the queue. If they did, we wouldn’t even need to have this mechanic added.
How hard is it to swap spec or characters for a bit when you see there are too many healers. And seriously, the amount on the pts is ludicrous. You can transfer any of your dps Alts over and test. Nobody cares about your gear or skill on them.
We are there to test bugs and and changes. We can’t do that with this many healers. Saying you don’t want to swap to dps, even though there are way to many healers, show people aren’t serious about testing for bugs or mechanic changes. It’s not like there have been any class buffs or nerfs to test, its purely mechanics at this point.
But no, healers have to stack every match because it’s what so many of them do. Even the ledgitmate healers could step up and swap for a bit so we can test properly.
The only reason to healer stack is to parse your healer stats, there is no other reason for so many healers in a match. If people aren’t serious about testing, why are they even on the pts?

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
07.18.2018 , 01:43 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
A better solution is starting the match with less players or just making arena matches.
According to what Eric said arenas will not be even poping due to the matchmaking system. They will only pop when the que is very very small.
Merovejec
7 days of being a sub, try it! Refferal Link
Achievements 5.9.3 67140