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3-4 healers on teams?

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EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.16.2018 , 10:05 AM | #11 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
I am going to triple check with the team but I believe that what you are describing is still possible, just very unlikely. Basically, we hard enforce the rules I outlined, to a point. After a certain amount of time has passed the matchmaking will start to loosen rules to make a match happen.

Although we want matches to be as even as possible within the rules, at a certain point just having a match pop is more important. This is being compounded by a small population queuing on PTS and the makeup of those players. We are reviewing the data for the queues and matches to ensure we are seeing the intended behavior.

These reports are super helpful though as it may highlight an issue. The team is looking at everything!

-eric
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TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
07.16.2018 , 10:35 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I am going to triple check with the team but I believe that what you are describing is still possible, just very unlikely. Basically, we hard enforce the rules I outlined, to a point. After a certain amount of time has passed the matchmaking will start to loosen rules to make a match happen.

Although we want matches to be as even as possible within the rules, at a certain point just having a match pop is more important. This is being compounded by a small population queuing on PTS and the makeup of those players. We are reviewing the data for the queues and matches to ensure we are seeing the intended behavior.

These reports are super helpful though as it may highlight an issue. The team is looking at everything!

-eric
Eric, the problem with quantity over quality, ie quicker pops, is that you end up with people rage quiting when they see these 3-4 healers in a team.
After “8” matches that never had less than 5 healers in the game, it became boring and frustrating. It also became impossible to test your changes for void star.
If it had not been the test server, I would have left those matches because they were not fun. If I wanted to parse dps numbers I could easily do that on a dummy.
In the end I got so frustrated that every match was like this, that I logged off the pts to go back to the live servers.
Also, the wait times for those matches were no more than a few minutes, so it’s not like they needed to quickly fill the teams to get fast pops.
From my perspective, it looked like the limited healer system was either not on or it was bugged.

I took screen shots of the scoreboards for most of the matches. If you need them to show the proof to the team, please let me know.

Khaleg's Avatar


Khaleg
07.16.2018 , 11:15 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I am going to triple check with the team but I believe that what you are describing is still possible, just very unlikely. Basically, we hard enforce the rules I outlined, to a point. After a certain amount of time has passed the matchmaking will start to loosen rules to make a match happen.

Although we want matches to be as even as possible within the rules, at a certain point just having a match pop is more important. This is being compounded by a small population queuing on PTS and the makeup of those players. We are reviewing the data for the queues and matches to ensure we are seeing the intended behavior.

These reports are super helpful though as it may highlight an issue. The team is looking at everything!

-eric
The sole reason for that is almost 100 % sure the fact that not that many players joined the Test pvp sessions, especially the pops after the official 2 hour time span was over. I checked the population on both faction sides server wide like half an hour after the core test time was over. There were like 7 on the Rep and 27 on Imp total serverwide. It's normal that match maling becomes difficult then. We still had pops but some of these weird team ones.
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Banderal's Avatar


Banderal
07.16.2018 , 11:31 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
From my perspective, it looked like the limited healer system was either not on or it was bugged.

I took screen shots of the scoreboards for most of the matches. If you need them to show the proof to the team, please let me know.
I agree with Trixxie. It sure looks like the limit healer system was not working. I also took some screens, of the first 8 matches I had from the "morning" session on Saturday. Every single match had more then 2 healers (or more than 1 for the arenas) per side. I thought it might be backfills creating the large number of healers, so I included that info too (based on a side having more than 8 people listed on the score screen at the end) - but in most cases the side that did NOT have backfills had more healers. Just judging from the healing output vs. dps output, this is what I counted:

#1: arena: 1 healer v 2 healers, (2 healer side got that 2nd heal as a backfill)
#2: 3 healers v 2 healers (2 healer side got 2 backfills)
#3: 3 healers v 3 healers (one side had 2 backfills)
#4: 4 healers v 3 healers (3 healer side got a backfill)
#5: 3 healers v 2 healers (2 healer side got a backfill)
#6: 3 healers v 4 healers (3 healer side got 2 backfills)
#7: 2 healers v 3 healers (no backfills)
#8: arena, 2 healer v 2 healer (no backfills)

A quick glance over my screens shows pretty much the same healers showing up in all the matches, and with the DPS a mix of people. I do think there were a disproportionately large number of healers on the PTS. But it seems like, to me given what was described for match making, what would happen in that case is that it would be picking 4 healers total, and the rest DPS/tanks (but there were no tanks ) and off we go. And the left over healers would have to wait on the sidelines until the current matches were over... and then those 2nd-draft healers (not 2nd best, of course!) would get the 2nd round of matches with mostly the same DPS involved. But I haven't seen any healers reporting that "OMG had to wait SO LONG on the PTS to get a match!".

Bioware obviously has more stats than we do about this (hopefully!) but it sure seemed borked given who was showing up in every single match.
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Jerba's Avatar


Jerba
07.16.2018 , 02:26 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Although we want matches to be as even as possible within the rules, at a certain point just having a match pop is more important.
I disagree with that stance; most veteran players can play multiple classes/roles. For example, I like playing a healer, so I always queue PvP as a healer, but I could just as easily spec DPS.
If you enforce a 2 (maybe 3) healer limit on teams, and then healers have a longer waiting time than DPS, the problem will sort itself out naturally. Some healers who want faster pops will switch to DPS, and there will be less healers in queue.
If you just pop the match with more healers, nothing will change. I'd rather be forced to DPS than have BGs with too many healers.
Scoundrel healer. Raid leader. Guild officer @ Tulak Hord

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
07.16.2018 , 04:45 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I am going to triple check with the team but I believe that what you are describing is still possible, just very unlikely. Basically, we hard enforce the rules I outlined, to a point. After a certain amount of time has passed the matchmaking will start to loosen rules to make a match happen.

Although we want matches to be as even as possible within the rules, at a certain point just having a match pop is more important. This is being compounded by a small population queuing on PTS and the makeup of those players. We are reviewing the data for the queues and matches to ensure we are seeing the intended behavior.

These reports are super helpful though as it may highlight an issue. The team is looking at everything!

-eric
As long as the "loosened rules" are about breaking the limits rather than breaking the balance, I think we can live with that. I mean, if the worst case scenario is 3+ healers in each group it is still an improvement from the currently possible 3 healers versus 0 healers...

Rafiknoll's Avatar


Rafiknoll
07.16.2018 , 04:47 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Jerba View Post
I disagree with that stance; most veteran players can play multiple classes/roles. For example, I like playing a healer, so I always queue PvP as a healer, but I could just as easily spec DPS.
If you enforce a 2 (maybe 3) healer limit on teams, and then healers have a longer waiting time than DPS, the problem will sort itself out naturally. Some healers who want faster pops will switch to DPS, and there will be less healers in queue.
If you just pop the match with more healers, nothing will change. I'd rather be forced to DPS than have BGs with too many healers.
But the game was not designed only for veteran players, and there are also many veteran players who play only a single role (can play whatever healer, but can't DPS or tank nearly as well). They don't deserve to suffer for it...

Ld-Siris's Avatar


Ld-Siris
07.16.2018 , 05:41 PM | #18
You guys are missing the point. On the PTS at that time the players in que were (rough guestimate) 55% DPS/Tanks and 45% healers in que. Which means it if follows the rules then many healers wouldn't have gotten a pop because for them there weren't enough other roles to make multiple matches. So the matchmaking recognizes this and stats making the matches with the 3-4 healers.

On the live servers where at normal times the que player base is 90% tank/DPS and 10% healers it will work out much better.

LordTurin's Avatar


LordTurin
07.16.2018 , 07:33 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Ld-Siris View Post
You guys are missing the point. On the PTS at that time the players in que were (rough guestimate) 55% DPS/Tanks and 45% healers in que. Which means it if follows the rules then many healers wouldn't have gotten a pop because for them there weren't enough other roles to make multiple matches. So the matchmaking recognizes this and stats making the matches with the 3-4 healers.

On the live servers where at normal times the que player base is 90% tank/DPS and 10% healers it will work out much better.
I could be misinterpreting what Eric said, but I think it's more of a "after 5 minutes without enough people for a optimal pop, there can now be a max of 3 heals per team instead of 2, after 10 minutes there can now be a max of 4 heals instead of 3, etc." and not a check based on % of each role in queue.

Honestly, they do need to have something like this. In live it probably wont happen much, and if it does they should increase the time, but at a certain point you should just get a pop, and if you arent willing to play in a match with more than 2 heals, quit and log off, because at that point there just arent enough people anyway.
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Syal's Avatar


Syal
07.16.2018 , 11:34 PM | #20
just replace empty slot by AI... issue solved !
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