Let's take one item as an example: Prototype Improved Medpac.

(from Biochem)

http://db.darthhater.com/items/39560/prototype_improved_medpac/

1x Prototype Improved Medpac =

4x Cosmic Trace Particle (grade 4 biochemical compound)

4x Medicinal Fluid (grade 3 biochemical compound)

4x Unknown Microorganism (grade 3 biochemical sample)

4x Neuro-Stimulator (grade 3 medical supply)

1x First Aid Kit (crafting material from vendor)

Assuming you don't have any materials/ingredients to craft a Prototype Improved Medpac, and assuming you don't want to harvest the materials/ingredients around different planets/moons, you have to do Bioanalysis missions or Diplomacy missions to get those materials/ingredients.

I just did some sample missions to get a rough idea on how much each material/ingredient costs me in credits.

-= Bioanalysis / Diplomacy missions =-

Abundant Yield: Grade 3 Biochemical Samples ($480, 10min 18sec)

3x Unknown Microorganism (grade 3 biochemical sample)

5x Bio-Energy Cell Sample (grade 3 biochemical sample)

or

3x Unknown Microorganism (grade 3 biochemical sample)

4x Bio-Energy Cell Sample (grade 3 biochemical sample)

Rich Yield: Grade 3 Biochemical Samples ($870, 12min 12sec)

4x Unknown Microorganism (grade 3 biochemical sample)

6x Bio-Energy Cell Sample (grade 3 biochemical sample)

Abundant Yield: Grade 3 Biochemical Compounds ($460, 9min 42sec)

2x Blue Goo (grade 3 biochemical compound)

4x Hallucinogenic Compound (grade 3 biochemical compound)

Bountiful Yield: Grade 3 Biochemical Compounds ($805, 11min 36sec)

8x Blue Goo (grade 3 biochemical compound)

3x Medicinal Fluid (grade 3 biochemical compound)

Abundant Yield: Grade 4 Biochemical Compounds ($710, 17min 9sec)

2x Nerve-Damaging Chemical (grade 4 biochemical compound)

6x Cosmic Trace Particle (grade 4 biochemical compound)

Rich Yield: Grade 4 Biochemical Compounds ($1325, 20min 4sec)

9x Nerve-Damaging Chemical (grade 4 biochemical compound)

3x Cosmic Trace Particle (grade 4 biochemical compound)

Rich Yield: Grade 3 Medical Supplies ($1115, 25min 36sec)

8x Neuro-Stimulator (grade 3 medical supply)

-= =-

Let's talk about Unknown Microorganism. A random mission gives "Abundant Yield," and another random mission gives "Rich Yield." I don't have control over what kind of yield a mission is going to give me; it's random. On the one hand, 1x Unknown Microorganism can cost me $160 credits if I'm running an "Abundant Yield" mission. On the other hand, 1x Unknown Microorganism can cost me $218 credits if I'm running a "Rich Yield" mission. It doesn't matter if I get Unknown Microorganisms by themselves or if I get Bio-Energy Cell Samples along with my Unknown Microorganisms or if I get a million other materials/ingredients along with my Unknown Microorganisms. The fact of the matter is that I need Unknown Microorganism to help craft Prototype Improved Medpac, and it's costing me either $480 credits or $870 credits to get that material/ingredient, regardless of what other materials/ingredients come along with it. The fact that none of the materials/ingredients I get along with Unknown Microorganism help me craft Prototype Improved Medpac also supports this cost reasoning. The type of mission that I can do is also random, and I'm not going to think about mathematics/probability/statistics while I'm in the middle of running a flashpoint while sending my companions off to do Bioanalysis/Diplomacy missions, so I'm just going to say that...AT MOST (in this case)...it costs me $870 credits to get Unknown Microorganism, and thus puts Unknown Microorganism at $218 credits each (rounded-up).

You need 4x Unknown Microorganisms to craft Prototype Improved Medpac, so that's about $872 right there (if we rounded-down, it'd be $868, but you wouldn't be breaking even, so we're going to round-up).

Likewise, Cosmic Trace Particle is $442 credits each, Medicinal Fluid is $269 credits each, Neuro-Stimulator is $140 credits each, and First Aid Kit is $10 each (cheap, from vendor).

Cosmic Trace Particle x4 = $1,768 credits

Medicinal Fluid x4 = $1,076 credits

Unknown Microorganism x4 = $872 credits

Neuro-Stimulator x4 = $560 credits

total = $4,276 credits for 1x Prototype Improved Medpac

(how much $ minimum to sell Prototype Improved Medpac to break even)

Does this seem right to you guys? I'd like some feedback and corrections on this. I'm trying to determine selling price for crafted items.

Thanks.

TL;DR version: form your prices according to how much credits a lvl 50 player can gain by doing Ilum & Belsavis dailies.

I'm biochemist as well. Your analysis is very thorough, however, there are a few variables I'd consider as well:

1) faction suppy / demand: if you are a rep, you'll have smaller demand. My server in peek weekend hours has no more than 140 reps on Carrick station (hi populated EU server)

2) value of credits: talking about psychological value here - not all players have yet understood of how much time you need to invest to gain e.g. 10k credits. In the first few days/weeks after launch you could buy end-game stuff (e.g. consumable missions) for nothing (3-5k), whereas now the reasonable prices are forming - in a month the market will probably mature

3) fear of large numbers: people are generally hesitant in investing if they see a bunch of zeroes on an item price. (Vanilla) WoW had copper/silver/gold for a reason. I'd love to see SWTOR having credit cents or something similar.

4) outleveling items rapidly: depending on your play style and free time, you can hit 1-50 in less then two weeks. At that rate, any low level items you invest in are credits tossed in the wind.

Primarily due to point nr. 2 I form my prices with a different logic in mind:

- daily quest on Ilum awards 10k credits

- daily quest on Belsavis awards 7.5k credits

- daily quest on either Ilum/Belsavis takes 10-20 minutes to complete solo

Therefore, any lvl 50 player can earn between 25-50k per hour doing something they anyhow are encouraged to do (to get Rakata 3 piece)

I sell my fortitude stims for 25k (item: http://db.darthhater.com/items/23497/items/#produced-from), might/willpower/aim/cunning for 20k.

My asking price is based on the fact it takes a lvl 50 player 30 minutes of doing dailies to buy a stim that buffs them for 2 hours.

Since I was one of the first end-game crafters on my server, I sold a bunch of epic lvl 49 implants for 60k, mastercraft for 99k. Now, there are many more who make them and their price is around 25k which is too low for me to invest mats in.

 

Since I was one of the first end-game crafters on my server, I sold a bunch of epic lvl 49 implants for 60k, mastercraft for 99k. Now, there are many more who make them and their price is around 25k which is too low for me to invest mats in.

Sucks. I regularly sell them at 80k. I know I could EASILY swing 250k for a mastercraft Columni.

Sucks. I regularly sell them at 80k. I know I could EASILY swing 250k for a mastercraft Columni.

Tionese & Columni are BoP, and as far as I know, there are no mastercrafts on these - if there are I haven't seen one yet.

Yea I agree it sucks cause I'm selling items that are 20% worse than Rakata ones you get from commendations. My price is equal to doing 6 daily quests on Ilum (cca 1h 30 min invested), whereas Rakata require 120 daily commendations (cca 30 hours invested over 6 days).

However, a lot of people on my server have started producing them and undercutting each other by ridiculous amounts.

Oh yea, have I mentioned I RE'd in total around 200 willpower blues to get the purple I sold the most? (dps crit surge)

But hey, if I were armstech (like my buddy) I could have crafted.. nothing..

Well, your intent is not to make a fixed profit, but to maximize it.

So usually for stuff that I know is wanted, I start with the proposed price, then add a "0" to it. If it doesn't sell, I try again, then reduce by 10% until sold. Duration 2 days.

Works well for Promethium and Mandalorian Ore. For blues, not so much. But then... don't sell blues.

EDIT: Don't sell too cheap. Got an Mastercraft Item with good stats? Make it 175k. Don't be afraid to charge premium prices for premium products. You don't sell them? Wait. Don't be nervous. Quality sells. Prices will go up because there is hardly anything to do with money.

Do I have your guys' approval, then?

Assuming I'm "not in it for profit" and just want to merely break even, is it fair to charge $4,276 credits for 1x Prototype Improved Medpac? (for example)

I'm sure I could get a more accurate cost figure by garnering a larger sample size of Bioanalysis/Diplomacy missions and their costs per amount of materials/ingredients obtained.

I wouldn't list it for less than double what it costs to make it. Some stuff that will not be possible on, but for 10K, I don't think that;s too much for your product. Like a previous poster stated, if it doesnt sell, re list it. In the meantime, you're making more of them so that you can list more when you establish the going rate. Have fun!

Thanks for your input, man.

OP wrote:

"Assuming you don't have any materials/ingredients to craft a Prototype Improved Medpac, and assuming you don't want to harvest the materials/ingredients around different planets/moons,"

Here's a bit of a problem -- you'll always be able to be undersold by those who DO have the gathering skills and thus find the bulk of their components "for free" simply by playing the game and clicking on nodes.

I gather more material than I need to level ArmorMech just by traveling. When I no longer need the basic ingredients for greens, I can sell them on the AH for a lot of money, even grossly undercutting other sellers. This doesn't even count the greens I'm able to sell for slightly more than vendor prices, which are pure profit, since the initial gathering cost me zippo. Hell, selling them to the vendor is pure profit. (And I RE to get better recipes, of course.)

Why would you NOT have the appropriate gathering skills for your craft? What am I missing, here?

OP wrote:

"Assuming you don't have any materials/ingredients to craft a Prototype Improved Medpac, and assuming you don't want to harvest the materials/ingredients around different planets/moons,"

 

Here's a bit of a problem -- you'll always be able to be undersold by those who DO have the gathering skills and thus find the bulk of their components "for free" simply by playing the game and clicking on nodes.

 

I gather more material than I need to level ArmorMech just by traveling. When I no longer need the basic ingredients for greens, I can sell them on the AH for a lot of money, even grossly undercutting other sellers. This doesn't even count the greens I'm able to sell for slightly more than vendor prices, which are pure profit, since the initial gathering cost me zippo. Hell, selling them to the vendor is pure profit. (And I RE to get better recipes, of course.)

 

Why would you NOT have the appropriate gathering skills for your craft? What am I missing, here?

You're missing the point of the whole original post.

Besides that, you're missing the word "want" in the first sentence of your quote. Assuming one does not WANT to gather/harvest, then [the break even cost is this] (based on running missions instead).

...but yes, you are correct...but the point of the thread was not how cheaply a crafter can sell a crafted item but how cheaply a crafter can sell a crafted item with material/ingredient missions factored-in or replacing manual gathering.

I personally out-level my planet/moon mission areas before I'm rich enough or have time enough to level-up my crew skills. Even with manually gathering mats along the way, I still run-out of mats to craft from. I could always backtrack and gather, but that's time-consuming and boring and keeps me from progressing in character level and mission lines. It's easier to run material/ingredient missions with companions and bear the extra cost. In turn, the cost gets handed-over to the buyer of a given crafted item. Either the crafter puts-in the extra work gathering...or the buyer puts-in the extra work paying more credits. One of the two parties has to make the sacrifice.

Let's talk about Unknown Microorganism. A random mission gives "Abundant Yield," and another random mission gives "Rich Yield." I don't have control over what kind of yield a mission is going to give me; it's random. On the one hand, 1x Unknown Microorganism can cost me $160 credits if I'm running an "Abundant Yield" mission. On the other hand, 1x Unknown Microorganism can cost me $218 credits if I'm running a "Rich Yield" mission. It doesn't matter if I get Unknown Microorganisms by themselves or if I get Bio-Energy Cell Samples along with my Unknown Microorganisms or if I get a million other materials/ingredients along with my Unknown Microorganisms. The fact of the matter is that I need Unknown Microorganism to help craft Prototype Improved Medpac, and it's costing me either $480 credits or $870 credits to get that material/ingredient, regardless of what other materials/ingredients come along with it.

Then you're a fool and doing it wrong. You should also be selling whatever it is that "Bio-Energy Cell Sample" are used to make, or worse case, selling them on the market to people who are making/selling whatever it is they are used to make. (or worst case, dumping them on vendors)

Otherwise you'll be outprofited/undercut by those who are crafting smarter.

TL;DR version: form your prices according to how much credits a lvl 50 player can gain by doing Ilum & Belsavis dailies.

 

 

 

I sell my fortitude stims for 25k (item: http://db.darthhater.com/items/23497/items/#produced-from), might/willpower/aim/cunning for 20k.

 

My asking price is based on the fact it takes a lvl 50 player 30 minutes of doing dailies to buy a stim that buffs them for 2 hours.

 

Must be nice. They don't even sell for $17.5k on my server so I stopped making them.

I can make more just selling the raw mats.

You're missing the point of the whole original post.

 

Besides that, you're missing the word "want" in the first sentence of your quote. Assuming one does not WANT to gather/harvest, then [the break even cost is this] (based on running missions instead).

Yeah, I suppose I am missing the point.

It doesn't matter how efficiently you price items, you won't sell them because someone else, being just as efficient as you, but NOT paying for the basic components because he's gathering them, will undercut you... unless there's some competitive edge to your method I'm missing, and if so, please enlighten me.

To pull some numbers out of the air, if it costs you 100 credits in running scavenging missions to make a low-level green item, and me 0 credits, then, I can undercut any price you set by 100 credits and make exactly as much profit as you will. You'll never be able to (profitably) match my prices, because I'm paying NOTHING while you're paying SOMETHING. (Well, OK, to be fair, if it takes me an hour to gather ingredients, during which I'm not otherwise earning credits, and you take that same hour and earn more than you'd spend to buy the same ingredients, you do win... but that pretty much only happens if I go back to low-level worlds and gather while not earning decent loot for my level. OTOH, those low-level materials will sell on the GTN for far more than the crafted items will... I view selling crafted items as a way to partially recoup the costs of leveling the skills; once I no longer need the materials to grind, I'll sell them directly for more money, which is hilarious when you think about it -- in MMOs, adding labor reduces the value of raw materials! But that's a topic for another thread.)

I mean, sure, play how you want and charge what you want. I just think, personally, you're in a no-win situation; you can't undercut the guy who gets his mats for free, except in unusual circumstances. If you don't want to gather ingredients, I do not understand how you can expect to profitably sell items when you're competing with people who do, and when there's nothing that keeps a competitor from seeing what you charge and undercutting you. The many factors that can apply in the real world ("This gas station overcharges, but it's inconvenient to drive to the next one") don't apply here; all vendors post their goods in the same place and the lowest price wins, period.

I also admit I am speaking only from an Armormech perspective, where three skills -- Armormech, Savenging, and UT -- have so far kept me completely supplied, other than things like "conductive flux". It may be much harder to make biotech items; I don't know.

You can never base a price on someone who either a) runs mission solely for the material or b) buys the materials

You have the ability at all levels to get your crafting materials w/o doing missions

And with trivial stuff you have way more materials then you need all the way to 50 w/o doing missions or buys mats

For example I started as an Armormech. My next character was cybertech I could pretty much give him my leftovers and he could level up no problem

90% of evrything a crafter makes is pretty much free, especially in this game aside from 1 vendor bought item. In addition there is no time involved because you can do something else while a companion actually makes it

Im actually really surprised on the prices of reg (green or blue) items are in this game

Then you're a fool and doing it wrong. You should also be selling whatever it is that "Bio-Energy Cell Sample" are used to make, or worse case, selling them on the market to people who are making/selling whatever it is they are used to make. (or worst case, dumping them on vendors)

 

Otherwise you'll be outprofited/undercut by those who are crafting smarter.

Must be nice. They don't even sell for $17.5k on my server so I stopped making them.

 

I can make more just selling the raw mats.

Yeah, I suppose I am missing the point.

 

It doesn't matter how efficiently you price items, you won't sell them because someone else, being just as efficient as you, but NOT paying for the basic components because he's gathering them, will undercut you... unless there's some competitive edge to your method I'm missing, and if so, please enlighten me.

 

To pull some numbers out of the air, if it costs you 100 credits in running scavenging missions to make a low-level green item, and me 0 credits, then, I can undercut any price you set by 100 credits and make exactly as much profit as you will. You'll never be able to (profitably) match my prices, because I'm paying NOTHING while you're paying SOMETHING. (Well, OK, to be fair, if it takes me an hour to gather ingredients, during which I'm not otherwise earning credits, and you take that same hour and earn more than you'd spend to buy the same ingredients, you do win... but that pretty much only happens if I go back to low-level worlds and gather while not earning decent loot for my level. OTOH, those low-level materials will sell on the GTN for far more than the crafted items will... I view selling crafted items as a way to partially recoup the costs of leveling the skills; once I no longer need the materials to grind, I'll sell them directly for more money, which is hilarious when you think about it -- in MMOs, adding labor reduces the value of raw materials! But that's a topic for another thread.)

 

I mean, sure, play how you want and charge what you want. I just think, personally, you're in a no-win situation; you can't undercut the guy who gets his mats for free, except in unusual circumstances. If you don't want to gather ingredients, I do not understand how you can expect to profitably sell items when you're competing with people who do, and when there's nothing that keeps a competitor from seeing what you charge and undercutting you. The many factors that can apply in the real world ("This gas station overcharges, but it's inconvenient to drive to the next one") don't apply here; all vendors post their goods in the same place and the lowest price wins, period.

 

I also admit I am speaking only from an Armormech perspective, where three skills -- Armormech, Savenging, and UT -- have so far kept me completely supplied, other than things like "conductive flux". It may be much harder to make biotech items; I don't know.

The message I'm getting from you guys is that I'll make more profit just selling raw materials/ingredients on the GTN.

lol

So far, I've only done synthweaving...

1. Green stuff isn't worth selling

2. Blue stuff (and purple stuff) is worth selling, however you (or somebody else) *has* to run missions for the blue/purple mats.

3. In the normal course of playing the game, even running out of your way to harvest mats when you see nodes for them, you probably won't get enough to even RE a single blue item.

Actually harvesting to sell would be just flat-out waste of time.

The message I'm getting from you guys is that I'll make more profit just selling raw materials/ingredients on the GTN.

lol

Yes.

This is, in fact, correct.

So far, I've only done synthweaving...

1. Green stuff isn't worth selling

2. Blue stuff (and purple stuff) is worth selling, however you (or somebody else) *has* to run missions for the blue/purple mats.

3. In the normal course of playing the game, even running out of your way to harvest mats when you see nodes for them, you probably won't get enough to even RE a single blue item.

 

Actually harvesting to sell would be just flat-out waste of time.

Thank you.

This supports why mat missions need to be run:

#1 cannot free-harvest mats for blue/purple crafts

#2 selling free-harvest mats is waste of time

Thank you.

 

This supports why mat missions need to be run:

 

#1 cannot free-harvest mats for blue/purple crafts

#2 selling free-harvest mats is waste of time

Not sure how you concluded that. Red Goo is one of the best selling BioA mats and it can be free harvested.

Here's the thing. Nobody that buys anything off the GTN gives a fig how much it cost you to make. Here is my philosophy for price items on the GTN/Bazaar/AH, whatever game you play.

1) Look up the price for the mats on the GTN. It doesn't matter if you farm them or mission for them. "thus puts Unknown Microorganism at $218 credits each"...if the GTN consistently sells Unknown Microorganisms for 50c each then the price of UMs is 50c each. If they are selling on the GTN for 500c each then your price when figuring what to sell your item would be 500c each.

2) Look up what the item you want to sell is posting for on average. If your calculations say you should be posting for 4500c each (gotta figure in GTN fees) and the average posting price is 3000c then you'll never sell any of your stuff. If the average posting price is 7500c and you insist on posting for 4500c then you are not only short changing yourself but you are in fact wrecking the market.

3) If the GTN price of the mats is greater than you can sell your good for then you are better off selling the mats. Even if you farmed the mats yourself you would make more profit selling the mats than you would selling the item and you save yourself the time and headache of crafting.

I constantly have to tell a friend of mine to not sell his stuff so cheap because of #3. He keeps saying that since he got the mats for free what he gets is pure profit. That might be the case but the "profit" he is getting is actually costing him possible rewards therefore I say he is actually losing money.

Anyway, that is my philosophy and I hope this isn't a TL;DR type of post.

Cheers and in all things just have fun...its a game

2) Look up what the item you want to sell is posting for on average. If your calculations say you should be posting for 4500c each (gotta figure in GTN fees) and the average posting price is 3000c then you'll never sell any of your stuff. If the average posting price is 7500c and you insist on posting for 4500c then you are not only short changing yourself but you are in fact wrecking the market.

I have to disagree. A lot of people who may not be actively crafting stuff probably know the approximate cost to craft stuff. If you are blatantly overcharging, you are simply inviting extra competition into your market, and your eventual profits will inevitably fall.

I'd far rather make a modest profit that lasts until I stop playing than a large profit now and no profit later.

#2 selling free-harvest mats is waste of time

Only if you're trying to sell them for more than it costs to get them from missions, unless (like Biochem currently) there are simply people with virtually unlimited funds trying to level up as quickly as possible so are spending as much of their companions time as possible crafting, and virtually none gathering.

I base my selling point on a rough guesstimate of the cost of mats based from running missions, but that doesn't mean I don't buy mats off the GTN if they're cheaper than I'd get them from a mission. And that (naturally) means that I'm getting over 1/2 the profits from the eventual sale, whereas the harvest is getting less.

The economy is in such disarray that I haven't been able to put fixed prices on anything. On my server prices fluctuate all the time so something that was selling steady last week won't sell at all today because someone flooded the market with a bunch of lowball prices. I've found that I actually make more money by selling a bunch of low level items (20 or less) for several grand a piece because the missions are cheap to run.

I make sure to check the GTN at least once a day so see what the current trends are and re-adjust my pricing/selling scheme. It also helps to keep a rotating stock of different item types/bonuses. There's no point in selling an item if a ton of people are selling the same thing at varying prices.

This thread is full of people who either (a) don't have any understanding of the concept of opportunity cost or (b) kind of do, but can't quite put their finger on it.

It makes no difference if you buy your mats off the GTN, farm them from nodes in the world, or get them from gathering missions. Your full economic cost to craft an item is the higher of:

-The price you could get for the mats on the GTN.

-The average credits/mats you pay by doing gathering missions.

-Time to farm the mats in the open world multiplied by the amount of credits you can earn per hour doing your most profitable other activity.

The third is rather tedious to determine to a high degree of accuracy. The easy comparison would be how many credits per hour you make doing dailies (Belsavis and Ilum, and I suppose space missions as well); either that or grinding warzones with a really efficient pre-made. In any case, if you have good knowledge of the spawn points of gathering nodes, I'm fairly confident you would net better returns from node farming - I haven't done any calculations, however.

In most cases, I would guess that the GTN proceeds you could receive from selling your mats is going to be greater than the other two valuations so this will probably be the values you use in your cost calculations.

To not consider your next best alternative is, well, foolish.

Feel free to sell me the materials you gathered in the open world for 0 credits though because hey, it didn't cost you anything, right?!

Edit: Since I said the "full economic cost of crafting is..." I should probably also add in that if you really wanted the full cost you'd have to consider the time it takes you to actually set your companions up to craft, then post items on the GTN. Let's stay within the context of the game though, and not get into a conversion of game credits to the real life $ you spend on your subscription, though.

This thread is full of people who either (a) don't have any understanding of the concept of opportunity cost or (b) kind of do, but can't quite put their finger on it.

 

It makes no difference if you buy your mats off the GTN, farm them from nodes in the world, or get them from gathering missions. Your full economic cost to craft an item is the higher of:

 

-The price you could get for the mats on the GTN.

-The average credits/mats you pay by doing gathering missions.

-Time to farm the mats in the open world multiplied by the amount of credits you can earn per hour doing your most profitable other activity.

 

The third is rather tedious to determine to a high degree of accuracy. The easy comparison would be how many credits per hour you make doing dailies (Belsavis and Ilum, and I suppose space missions as well); either that or grinding warzones with a really efficient pre-made. In any case, if you have good knowledge of the spawn points of gathering nodes, I'm fairly confident you would net better returns from node farming - I haven't done any calculations, however.

 

In most cases, I would guess that the GTN proceeds you could receive from selling your mats is going to be greater than the other two valuations so this will probably be the values you use in your cost calculations.

 

To not consider your next best alternative is, well, foolish.

 

Feel free to sell me the materials you gathered in the open world for 0 credits though because hey, it didn't cost you anything, right?!

 

Edit: Since I said the "full economic cost of crafting is..." I should probably also add in that if you really wanted the full cost you'd have to consider the time it takes you to actually set your companions up to craft, then post items on the GTN. Let's stay within the context of the game though, and not get into a conversion of game credits to the real life $ you spend on your subscription, though.

/thread.