btw slick

 

I average 40 wz's a day.

 

Like I said you are the farthest thing from my definition of a PVP'er.

 

Enjoy your E-tantrum when you are laying dead at my feet.

 

Oh and for the record I beat full BM's regularly and have all champ gear 1 cent piece and BM accessories.

 

Don't even pretend you are on my level.

 

Not to mention my class got nerf'd 4 times.

 

get out of my forum.

A well-reasoned and thoughtful post, if I ever saw one!

40 WZ's a day - And you say this isn't about gear? Please.

Let me reitterate something

 

Titles don't mean squat.

 

your a level 10-49 pvp'er who Q'd with 12k or less HP in the 50's bracket the instant you rolled 50.

 

You are part of the problem how about being part of the solution for once.

 

I'm a rank 64 BM now guess how much BM stuff I have right now?

 

Nothing but implants and earring guess why? Because it's that friggin hard to get BM tokens to get gear.

 

The fact you were champion before you hit 50... doesn't change the fact you DO NOT HAVE TO BE CHAMPION TO WEAR CHAMPION GEAR!

 

And I guarantee by the time you reached 50 you were lucky to have 3 pieces of centurion gear.

 

So when I jump you from stealth on my operative and crit you for 4.6k on hidden strike don't you FRIGGIN DARE QQ to me about my class being overpowered when I now have all champ gear with BM accessories.

 

You are the reason my class got nerf'd in the first place and why I told all you people....

 

L2P

 

Why the hell should you put in less work than I did to get to rank 60 (yes without kill trading)

 

That's not fair.

 

That's not balance.

 

That's called World of Warcraft

Now you're just making stuff up and spouting nonsense. It looks like this thread has been officially hijacked.

I wasn't talking to you that I remember.

 

Incidently BH huh?

 

Enjoy the nerf in 1.2

 

I know I will.

Well, you quoted me and wrote a long post, so I assumed you were replying to what I said.

Especially since you were writing specifically to the points in my post that you quoted.

You pretty much come across as a whiny Op who got nerfed and just can't cope, btw. I hope that's what you were going for, because that's definitely what you're portraying yourself as here.

Btw. I'm also a BM who did so before the changes, so your point is kinda moot there.

Dude if I have to explain it to you.

 

You are the farthest thing from my level of PVP intensity that it's just not worth it.

 

Believe what you want, it is after all your opinion which means little to nothing to me at this point.

LOL post of the year.

Peeing in the wind was the expression used earlier, the end of gear stats progression is over come 1.2 and nothing is gonna change it.

A well-reasoned and thoughtful post, if I ever saw one!

 

40 WZ's a day - And you say this isn't about gear? Please.

No 40 wz's a day is the difference between a PVP'er doing PVP 10-49 without doing PVE like "I did" to get the level appropriate gear during a time frame when there was no level 50 bracket.

You whined about 50's in the 10-49 bracket they got seperated.

You whined about concealments/scrappers 2-3 shotting your 12k hp progressive character

Now you are whining when real pvp'ers like me don't want wow carebears like yourself to get free stuff that took an incredible amount of persistance and butt kickings to get.

L2P

Don't even pretend you are on my level.

Unlike you I don't whine when I die, I get even.

Now you're just making stuff up and spouting nonsense. It looks like this thread has been officially hijacked.

Oh I'm making stuff up huh?

Would you like a screenshot

or a fraps video?

Your choice

Well, you quoted me and wrote a long post, so I assumed you were replying to what I said.

 

Especially since you were writing specifically to the points in my post that you quoted.

 

You pretty much come across as a whiny Op who got nerfed and just can't cope, btw. I hope that's what you were going for, because that's definitely what you're portraying yourself as here.

 

Btw. I'm also a BM who did so before the changes, so your point is kinda moot there.

If I did it might have been in error

I'm more talking to the other guy here

Peeing in the wind was the expression used earlier, the end of gear stats progression is over come 1.2 and nothing is gonna change it.

 

I can't argue with inescapable logic.

But I just like to troll people who can't make a valid point to save their lives.

I find it entertaining when I'm bored of killing everyone on my server.

No 40 wz's a day is the difference between a PVP'er doing PVP 10-49 without doing PVE like "I did" to get the level appropriate gear during a time frame when there was no level 50 bracket.

You play a lot. Cheers.

You whined about 50's in the 10-49 bracket they got seperated.

Wasn't me.

You whined about concealments/scrappers 2-3 shotting your 12k hp progressive character

Nope.

Now you are whining when real pvp'ers like me don't want wow carebears like yourself to get free stuff that took an incredible amount of persistance and butt kickings to get.

Persistence and butt-kickings? Also known as afking and botting? Please. You play alot. You have gear. If you also had skill, you wouldn't be crying about gear, or about the nerf.

L2P

 

Don't even pretend you are on my level.

 

Unlike you I don't whine when I die, I get even.

Rofl. This is pure gold!

 

I can't argue with inescapable logic.

 

But I just like to troll people who can't make a valid point to save their lives.

 

I find it entertaining when I'm bored of killing everyone on my server.

Does this remind anyone else of Napoleon Dynamite?

I wasn't talking to you that I remember.

 

See, I can respect the fact you are calling me out being wrong about something I never addressed to you.

The post below doesn't belong to you, then?

I'm a PvPer who didn't do any PvE at all from 10-49 and dinged 50 as a Champion w/ 1000/1000 comms. I didn't have level appropriate gear outside of a new barrel I got w/ daily comms from Ilum and the few cent pieces and 1 champ piece that I got when I dinged.

 

I PvP'd even though I was undergeared and had 11k hp, and didn't complain, and was still a contribution to my team through other means than killing until I was geared in full Champ, at which point I was once again a killing machine.

 

I grind out gear not because I want gear, but because I don't want to be at a DISADVANTAGE when fighting other members of the PvP community. The gear itself doesn't matter, it just means that I can be competitive at something that I enjoy.

 

I'm not sure which of your camps I fall into. /shrug

Let me reitterate something

 

Titles don't mean squat.

 

your a level 10-49 pvp'er who Q'd with 12k or less HP in the 50's bracket the instant you rolled 50.

 

You are part of the problem how about being part of the solution for once.

 

I'm a rank 64 BM now guess how much BM stuff I have right now?

 

Nothing but implants and earring guess why? Because it's that friggin hard to get BM tokens to get gear.

 

The fact you were champion before you hit 50... doesn't change the fact you DO NOT HAVE TO BE CHAMPION TO WEAR CHAMPION GEAR!

 

And I guarantee by the time you reached 50 you were lucky to have 3 pieces of centurion gear.

 

So when I jump you from stealth on my operative and crit you for 4.6k on hidden strike don't you FRIGGIN DARE QQ to me about my class being overpowered when I now have all champ gear with BM accessories.

 

You are the reason my class got nerf'd in the first place and why I told all you people....

 

L2P

 

Why the hell should you put in less work than I did to get to rank 60 (yes without kill trading)

 

That's not fair.

 

That's not balance.

 

That's called World of Warcraft

Because that really sounds like you're talking to me. And being very wrong at the same time.

The post below doesn't belong to you, then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because that really sounds like you're talking to me. And being very wrong at the same time.

This dude is clearly in over his head. But he is providing winning quotes.

The post below doesn't belong to you, then?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Because that really sounds like you're talking to me. And being very wrong at the same time.

Actually...

I read your post again.

No I did not misread it... Maybe I could have been nicer about it I admit that.... but I was more miffed at this other guy by the time you posted a response.

And I do not apologize for the post at all.

But you are in catagory 1.

While I admire your cander you are worthless to a team with 11k HP

I'll be honest I had 11k HP when I was level 40-45.

If that tells you just how useless you are in the 50's bracket, and despite that... I got friggin ***** when I entered the 50's bracket.

People used to trash talk me, call me scrub, baddie, etc.

Now the table has turned and all of the sudden my class needs a nerf?

Like you I PVP'd 10-49 and only did so to hit the next level... but I also level'd in PVE 1-49. Why? Because there is good gear you can get along the way.

So you are part of the problem with fresh 50's in wz's.

I don't condone PVP'ing because you love it, but I condone people like this other guy who cry nerf every time I drop a 4.6k crit on them when they out gear me.

Now he's going to get better gear than I have currently for free without putting any effort into it.

That's my arguement.

You put in your time, the problem is you screw'd a lot of people along the way to do it.

All because you did not PVE at all.

Remember it's a team game, come prepared or don't come at all. That's the biggest gripe vet pvp'ers have about fresh 50's And while I agree there should be a further seperation of the PVP brackets to account for these people with 11k HP who don't know they can enter wz's with 13k+ right out of the gate just by doing a little minor PVE first.

This dude is clearly in over his head. But he is providing winning quotes.

Here's another winning quote.

Call my bluff

Call my bluff 2

Still want to call my bluff?

Here's another winning quote.

 

Call my bluff

 

Call my bluff 2

 

Still want to call my bluff?

You know, for all that smack that you talked to me, not only are you actually less geared than I am, but your WZ scores are pretty lackluster on top of it.

But I'm the one who puts in less work... lol. Not that anyone actually cares about damage numbers from Voidstar, or in general.

If you honestly believe that having 11k hp prevents someone from contributing to the team, then I'd say that you are actually part of the problem.

Objective-based PvP means that there are plenty of things that can be done even w/ low hp that can help your team win, which I described. I would most definitely take myself at 11k hp over many of the mouthbreathers in full Champ gear that I've seen running around the WZs.

Warzones are not based on 1v1. If they were, I would agree that having low hp is a huge detriment to the team. Fortunately, they are not and having utility and understanding how to play the game or disrupt healers can go a LONG way toward winning a match.

You know what the difference between an 11k hp and 17k hp PT keeping an enemy healer constantly interrupted/stunned/running is? Absolutely nothing.

You know what the difference between an 11k hp and 17k hp PT grappling you or your receivers into the pit when you're trying to score is? That's right, nothing.

Veteran PvPers don't have any gripes w/ undergeared players who know how to perform their role, and realize that they cannot be WZ heroes. Most fresh 50s do not, unfortunately, and that is why most people dislike undergeared players, because they are usually the fresh 50s that are going to tunnel-vision tanks and dps while ignoring objectives. I wasn't one of those guys, and I highly doubt that anyone ever minded having me on the team.

If you're just hating on people for not being geared regardless of their PvP experience, just because they have low hp, then I'd say you're doing it wrong, man.

(I will concede the point that having half a team of undergeared players can definitely sway an outcome, but this didn't happen often even when I was a fresh 50)

Just for the record, I knew that you could get good gear in PvE, but I am a PvP player. I also knew that as much as I PvP, I would be replacing all of that w/in a few days, which I did.

I'm sorry that you seem to think that I dragged my teams down, as I am rather sure that I did quite the opposite, often receiving MVPs for being the lowbie who did things right.

Here's another winning quote.

 

Call my bluff

 

Call my bluff 2

 

Still want to call my bluff?

This could just be me, but based on these screenshots he looks like a mouse clicker.

This could just be me, but based on these screenshots he looks like a mouse clicker.

lol

God I love people like you.

Makes killing you that much more enjoyable.

lol real pvp is ranked....lol fools,real pvp in the world is what pvp is...and should be here....but that would take work...from devs and players...which means wont happen.

sorry i dont want wz or dumbed down planet we can war on...let us war at least on every planet...in high sec. sectors...give us control pionts and choke pionts to defend and take....give us a reason other then these lame ....abitrary wz........ and mostly put up the dam server hardware that can handle it....not this hyundai crap you usin now.

what can ya expect from single player company...someone buy em a clue...cause god knows they dont have one

You know, for all that smack that you talked to me, not only are you actually less geared than I am, but your WZ scores are pretty lackluster on top of it.

 

But I'm the one who puts in less work... lol. Not that anyone actually cares about damage numbers from Voidstar, or in general.

 

If you honestly believe that having 11k hp prevents someone from contributing to the team, then I'd say that you are actually part of the problem.

 

Objective-based PvP means that there are plenty of things that can be done even w/ low hp that can help your team win, which I described. I would most definitely take myself at 11k hp over many of the mouthbreathers in full Champ gear that I've seen running around the WZs.

 

Warzones are not based on 1v1. If they were, I would agree that having low hp is a huge detriment to the team. Fortunately, they are not and having utility and understanding how to play the game or disrupt healers can go a LONG way toward winning a match.

 

You know what the difference between an 11k hp and 17k hp PT keeping an enemy healer constantly interrupted/stunned/running is? Absolutely nothing.

 

You know what the difference between an 11k hp and 17k hp PT grappling you or your receivers into the pit when you're trying to score is? That's right, nothing.

 

Veteran PvPers don't have any gripes w/ undergeared players who know how to perform their role, and realize that they cannot be WZ heroes. Most fresh 50s do not, unfortunately, and that is why most people dislike undergeared players, because they are usually the fresh 50s that are going to tunnel-vision tanks and dps while ignoring objectives. I wasn't one of those guys, and I highly doubt that anyone ever minded having me on the team.

 

If you're just hating on people for not being geared regardless of their PvP experience, just because they have low hp, then I'd say you're doing it wrong, man.

 

(I will concede the point that having half a team of undergeared players can definitely sway an outcome, but this didn't happen often even when I was a fresh 50)

No they have gripes with under geared people who know their role but can't perform it because BW isn't Blizzard.

Out of all this stuff you said, the only thing I really enjoyed reading, was the last part.

1 or 2 of them isn't a big deal

But obviously you don't have to deal with 5-7 of them every other wz... Like on my server.

I don't expect fresh 50's to know how to win, but I do expect them to not be lazy and Q with 11k HP.

BH merc buddy of mine from the 10-49 bracket reached 50. He did what you said is so easy to do.

He went heal spec because he was using level 40 gear in the 50's bracket with 11k HP.

Guess how useful he was in the 50's bracket?

I was on my PT with 500 expertise tank spec and he couldn't heal me with my CD's active.

Do tell me what roles these fresh 50's with 11k HP can perform that can't be countered in less than 3 second

They can't run the ball

They can't heal

They can't do damage

Oh wait they can interrupt sorry I forgot.

And if they can make it past the first 1/2 of the wz without dying sure a sorc could pull someone to the goal line (which most of the time sorcs with 11k HP never make it past the 1/2 way mark before they are ripped down in 3 seconds or less)

Even a geared healer can't heal an 11k HP player with a single geared DPS class on them.

It's simple logic. There's only so much an 11k HP can do, much less someone geared can do for them.

As good as I am at my class I can't carry 7 people with less than 13k HP regardless of their class/spec/pvp prowess.

And I know any vet pvp'er knows where their limitations are.

Carrying 1 even 3 of them is fine... but 4 or more and it's pretty much a guaranteed loss considering most wz Q's in the 50's bracket are all premades on my server.

First thing I do when I enter a wz is check to see how many people have less than 13k

if it's 3 or less I'll stay

if it's 4 or more, I leave before the wz even starts.

I find it comical the comments about my damage... I'm sorry my class got nerf'd 4 times in a row and can't do 500-750k damage per warzone like all the other classes.

For that I am humbled. And I beg forgiveness.

Don't forget to buff when you leave spawn. Because if you want to base PVP prowess on damage those 500-750k damage dealers are no more of a threat to me than your critical analyzing of my experience/pvp prowess based on a screenshot.

Hardcore MMO PvE and PvP players are similar. For PvE players it's about capping and getting all the best loot as fast as possible. This way they spend the next few months enjoying all the content with ease until the next expansion comes and makes everything they did worthless.

For PvP players its about capping out and getting all the best loot as fast as possible so that they can kill the average player with ease and enjoy PvPing till the next expansion comes out and makes everything they did worthless.

You can never please both the casual crowd and the hardcore crowd. The crowd a company caters to depends on how much new blood the game is attracting. If you have enough casual players coming and going you dont have to pay as much attention to the bandwidth hogging hardcore players who will subscribe longer.

I just don't buy the PvP for the "challenge" thing. The first 10 times you PvPed might have been for the challenge. The next 50 times was in the chase for something otherwise you would have been bored by now. Hardcore players both in PvP and in PvE do the same thing over and over and over again to be better then the average player. Not just through skill but artifically by time invested like Goku after the Hyperbolic time chamber. Otherwise Experience points wouldnt exist. Its just my opinion but all MMOs ive played have been setup this way.

People seem to have no problem with this when it comes to PVE. Level 1 players dont stand a chance in level 50 content. When a level 45 player starts forming a group and a level 30 asks to join hes often told something like "your level is to low and you'll die to fast". But when it comes to PvP everyone expects the playing field to be even no matter how much time you have invested. This is an MMO not a FPS or fighting game... You have to give PvPers something worth playing the same content over and over and over or they will get bored and quit.

Well, i think the issue is how BM is suppose to give around 12% more dmg but overall with more armor, and higher dps weapons amounts taking a lot less dmg, and of course dishing out more that BM is more than just 12% increase with expertise compared to champion around 10%.

So according to rumor, the new ranking warzones ignore the expertise bonus of normal warzones?

Is that the problem?

It is still BM armor, so the stats are better than other regualr items and the armor rating is also higher. Also people dont have 100% BM gear since they optimize with PVE gear with other parts for more stats.

So the advantage of those who played more should still exist, but without the 14% increase in dmg.

However, it seems those who raided might have an advantage with raid gear doing the ranked WZ.

Hardcore MMO PvE and PvP players are similar. For PvE players it's about capping and getting all the best loot as fast as possible. This way they spend the next few months enjoying all the content with ease until the next expansion comes and makes everything they did worthless.

 

For PvP players its about capping out and getting all the best loot as fast as possible so that they can kill the average player with ease and enjoy PvPing till the next expansion comes out and makes everything they did worthless.

 

 

You can never please both the casual crowd and the hardcore crowd. The crowd a company caters to depends on how much new blood the game is attracting. If you have enough casual players coming and going you dont have to pay as much attention to the bandwidth hogging hardcore players who will subscribe longer.

 

I just don't buy the PvP for the "challenge" thing. The first 10 times you PvPed might have been for the challenge. The next 50 times was in the chase for something otherwise you would have been bored by now. Hardcore players both in PvP and in PvE do the same thing over and over and over again to be better then the average player. Not just through skill but artifically by time invested like Goku after the Hyperbolic time chamber. Otherwise Experience points wouldnt exist. Its just my opinion but all MMOs ive played have been setup this way.

 

People seem to have no problem with this when it comes to PVE. Level 1 players dont stand a chance in level 50 content. When a level 45 player starts forming a group and a level 30 asks to join hes often told something like "your level is to low and you'll die to fast". But when it comes to PvP everyone expects the playing field to be even no matter how much time you have invested. This is an MMO not a FPS or fighting game... You have to give PvPers something worth playing the same content over and over and over or they will get bored and quit.

Except the problem with adding more and more items means more and more imbalances.

They could add items that look different for more effort into a higher rank. I would be cool with that.

Other than that, from a pvper perspective and wanting to pvp a lot of the time would be done with alternatives in the MMO to have sand box mechanics, and instanced mechanics.

The sand box would add a lot to the repetitions and helping with the next expansion with higher levels and higher tier items for the hardcore pvp player.

Instanced pvp can offer a lot till the next expansion by still having an even playing field and still be fun to repeat by the different number of instances and the choice to choose which one to join.

If they had more warzones and the choice to choose them, then a pvp set grind would not be important.

If they also had sand box pvp attached to their game, then they could also take their sweet time for the next pvp expansion as far as I am concerned.

Well, i think the issue is how BM is suppose to give around 12% more dmg but overall with more armor, and higher dps weapons amounts taking a lot less dmg, and of course dishing out more that BM is more than just 12% increase with expertise compared to champion around 10%.

 

So according to rumor, the new ranking warzones ignore the expertise bonus of normal warzones?

 

 

Is that the problem?

 

It is still BM armor, so the stats are better than other regualr items and the armor rating is also higher. Also people dont have 100% BM gear since they optimize with PVE gear with other parts for more stats.

 

So the advantage of those who played more should still exist, but without the 14% increase in dmg.

 

However, it seems those who raided might have an advantage with raid gear doing the ranked WZ.

This is part of the problem. Just like a ton of PvEer's never want to PvP a lot of PvP players never want to PvE. PvP players tend to not want to have to PvE to compete in PvP. Ask Mythic how people in DAOC felt about Trials of Atlantis(I loved it but I like PvE too). This is shown to be historically true and I think its true here as well.

No they have gripes with under geared people who know their role but can't perform it because BW isn't Blizzard.

 

Out of all this stuff you said, the only thing I really enjoyed reading, was the last part.

 

1 or 2 of them isn't a big deal

 

But obviously you don't have to deal with 5-7 of them every other wz... Like on my server.

 

I don't expect fresh 50's to know how to win, but I do expect them to not be lazy and Q with 11k HP.

 

BH merc buddy of mine from the 10-49 bracket reached 50. He did what you said is so easy to do.

 

He went heal spec because he was using level 40 gear in the 50's bracket with 11k HP.

 

Guess how useful he was in the 50's bracket?

 

I was on my PT with 500 expertise tank spec and he couldn't heal me with my CD's active.

 

Do tell me what roles these fresh 50's with 11k HP can perform that can't be countered in less than 3 second

 

They can't run the ball

They can't heal

They can't do damage

 

Oh wait they can interrupt sorry I forgot.

 

And if they can make it past the first 1/2 of the wz without dying sure a sorc could pull someone to the goal line (which most of the time sorcs with 11k HP never make it past the 1/2 way mark before they are ripped down in 3 seconds or less)

 

Even a geared healer can't heal an 11k HP player with a single geared DPS class on them.

 

It's simple logic. There's only so much an 11k HP can do, much less someone geared can do for them.

 

As good as I am at my class I can't carry 7 people with less than 13k HP regardless of their class/spec/pvp prowess.

 

And I know any vet pvp'er knows where their limitations are.

 

Carrying 1 even 3 of them is fine... but 4 or more and it's pretty much a guaranteed loss considering most wz Q's in the 50's bracket are all premades on my server.

 

First thing I do when I enter a wz is check to see how many people have less than 13k

 

if it's 3 or less I'll stay

 

if it's 4 or more, I leave before the wz even starts.

 

I find it comical the comments about my damage... I'm sorry my class got nerf'd 4 times in a row and can't do 500-750k damage per warzone like all the other classes.

 

For that I am humbled. And I beg forgiveness.

 

Don't forget to buff when you leave spawn. Because if you want to base PVP prowess on damage those 500-750k damage dealers are no more of a threat to me than your critical analyzing of my experience/pvp prowess based on a screenshot.

Don't worry, I don't base my judgments on damage screenshots when it comes to PvP prowess. I just thought you would have put up numbers a little more substantial when posting them on an internet forum. Most dps classes can do ~350k damage in full Champ is all I'm saying.

I expect for a Merc healer would have it pretty rough, as they depend on being able to take a beating to do their job most of the time. The entry to endgame PvP isn't as equally rough for all classes, as I'm sure you know. It was pretty painless for me, other than all the times I got roflstomped, but dying kinda goes w/ the territory in PvP.

You based your accusations on me personally though, not your friend. And I did my part when it came to winning more often than not, because fortunately I was not an undergeared Merc healer. I have a grapple that I'm pretty good at peeling for healers/breaking guards, and stopping carriers w/, a 6 second interrupt, snares, and decent damage even when I was undergeared, because as you know, I am an "OP Pyro PT" who is getting nerfed in 1.2.

An AoE stun works wonders when people are chasing your ball carrier also, as well as a DFA w/ all cds running to pressure guarded tank/healer combos or stop caps. Did you know that targeted AoEs are super awesome for stopping cappers who think they're safe on the other side of the node? I did too, but most mouthbreathers don't.

I'm obviously not going to go into the ways that every single class can contribute to matches when undergeared, because I don't play those classes, and I'd just be making something up that I think might work. Those are just some of the things that I can think of off the top of my head.

I don't have to deal w/ a ton of them in WZs, especially since the 1.1.5 changes; I'm sorry there are so many on your server, but at least they will be gearing up fast. Like I said, I agree that most undergeared players are awful to have on your team, just not on the grounds that they're undergeared. : P