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Server Merge Discussion Thread

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Server Merge Discussion Thread
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

HuaRya's Avatar


HuaRya
06.08.2017 , 11:37 PM | #501
Tonight:

Harbinger hit 'Light' at 9:30PM West Coast time. Hopefully the Devs will be able to do something swift and impacting relatively soon.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
06.09.2017 , 12:08 AM | #502
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
All? I'm still waiting to hear more beyond "technical issues" ... from BWA's perspective they could solve that and everyone would be happy?

I noted a couple of others around latency that I personally believe prevents massive country wide mega server and something to help RP griefing/abuse (though it's an ingrained issue of the whole game that should be addressed and not just for RP players) that would also be for consideration.

Constructive discussion should be about as I see it "these are the problems - what are some ideas on how BWA could solve them" as opposed to just "merge anyway!" or "don't merge it's not needed!"
Ping, latency, lag or what ever people want to call it is a major issue in pvp. It is especially sensitive for people who already play with exceptionally high lag, so any increase above 220-230ms for those people in the APAC region basically rules out them playing pvp or lag sensitive NiM OPs without their teams carrying them.

I agree there needs to be a more positive discussion here about possible solutions to cross server and mergers. Not just arguing backwards and forwards by stating the same things over and over by the same people.
We understand the concerns and the reasons of both factions by now as I'm sure the Devs do too. It does not progress the thread rehashing the same recalcitrant points.
What we should be discussing are what happens to fixing server population issues and how they can do it with the limited options available. We also need to understand that there are different community needs in this game and completely excluding one for selfish reasons will probably end the game.
As a community our aim should be to keep the game alive and going. Not having it shut down because it can't sustain itself.
This is going to be a hard path for some people and comprises will need to be made. As long as those compromises aren't game breaking and are at worst annoyances that don't prevent people playing the game the way it was meant to be played, then we may need to suck it up for the benefit of the games health.
I encourage you all to stop being negative Nancy's and turn this discussion in a positive direction. Let's offer solutions not the same mud sling dogma we are seeing page after page.
Let's assume first that if they do mergers that they will have the technical problems solved. I think from reading all of the concerns, this is a big one for both sides of the discussion. I can't imagine they will risk moving forward with such a measure without addressing that. We have now moved on many years since the last mergers, the back end systems have been upgraded since then and technology has also advanced. So let's just make a clear point in all our posts to Bio, maybe it could be a byline or our first sentence. "Make sure all technical issues are solved before doing any thing drastic". Then we can move onto the meat of our real posts. I think that will send a message to them that is a major concern they need to address first.
There really should now be no need to use that as an excuse to argue backwards and forwards between us. None of us know wether they can do it, if they have the systems in place or not. Telling each other what they can or can't do it just idiotic and non productive.
So.. what are the options to improve the population.. what are the things we need to make our parts of the game viable for our parts of the game to be healthy...
And please don't attack others needs to play their parts of the game.l if you don't play that part or it's of no indterets to you, it doesn't make it irrelevant and it doesn't make yours better. We are all equal in our needs and we need to accept that.
My idea is obviously the free legacy transfers I've already posted so people can vote with their feet. That's the basic premise of it, but there are lots of details and pitfall ps to it as well. I'll leave it at that till this thread turns around and the idea doesn't need get drowned our with people saying the same stuff backwards and forwards. The more that happens, the more those ideas get drowned out. And as I've said before, that will mean Bio won't listen to any of us and they implement something that could ruin the game for everyone.
Anyway thanks for reading. It's now up to you how you decide to respond and take positive steps towards solutions.

** sorry for any bad grammar or spelling mistakes. This was a rush post and wasn't proof read before I posted **
RIP APAC Players 😢😢😢😢💦
APAC - sign this thread to say goodbye
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=936181

Tisaren's Avatar


Tisaren
06.09.2017 , 02:22 AM | #503
Quote: Originally Posted by casirabit View Post
I don't know how many times I have to say this Ebon Hawk is not dead nor do we need to be merged with Harbinger. We are doing fine. There is no reason at all to merge Ebon Hawk.
Exactly. I play on Ebon Hawk too and it's a perfectly fine server. RP servers are also most suited for solo players, IMO. Both RP'ers and solo players seem to be more into (class) story and lore than PvP'ers and raiders.

And why is everything that has/had a PvP designation "dead"? Whether it's servers or instances? As far as I understand from different threads, this is usually blamed on the way Bioware handles PvP (class balance, not enough new WZ's, and so on), but, strangely enough, almost never on the number of players that actually want to participate in PvP. The PvP crowd is obviously the most vocal, but I doubt they make up the majority of the player base.

Anyway, I also read some good suggestions in this thread, like one non-RP and one RP server for the West Coast, same for the East Coast and same for EU. That's just 6 servers. I have no idea what can be done for AUS/NZ.

Finally, I don't understand where the dogma comes from that MMO equals PvP and/or raiding. MMO means nothing more than a multitude of players playing an online game simultaneously. It allows a number of people to participate in RP events (MMORPG), for example. So even without PvP or raiding a game like this would still be a MMO. Without RP it would also still be a MMO, but not a MMORPG

Jedi_riches's Avatar


Jedi_riches
06.09.2017 , 02:47 AM | #504
There is already a way of increasing your pop it's called cheap transfers if you have a security key you can transfer one a month.

If you are not doing this then you are prioritising your virtual assets over this pop and are just trying to force bioware to allow you to have your cake and eat it regardless to whether the general population want merges.

Many players are happy on their low population server whether it be for rp reasons, ease of none instanced objectives or other reasons and don't want to be forced into server merges because players refuse to let go of virtual assets and push what they want onto others.
How PvP balance is achieved - Bioware please nerf paper its OP, scissors are fine as they are.
Regards,
Rock

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
06.09.2017 , 03:21 AM | #505
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
RP is only one of those non-technical concerns that people have and it seems to me that you basically dismiss it as "not really much of a problem". That is my interpretation of what you wrote, though. Whether you meant it to come across that way, I cannot say.
I'm not dismissing it, I'm saying in terms of the amount of people affected by it I don't think it's probably affecting as many people as some would have us believe and it would be even less with decent moderation per my post. I'm not saying people don't RP I just don't think RP would get as disrupted as much as people think it might.

As for it being "only one of" ... what are the rest? Latency and someone else put up an issue around "node stealing" but iirc that's been less of an issue in recent content.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
06.09.2017 , 03:21 AM | #506
Quote: Originally Posted by Jedi_riches View Post
There is already a way of increasing your pop it's called cheap transfers if you have a security key you can transfer one a month.

If you are not doing this then you are prioritising your virtual assets over this pop and are just trying to force bioware to allow you to have your cake and eat it regardless to whether the general population want merges.

Many players are happy on their low population server whether it be for rp reasons, ease of none instanced objectives or other reasons and don't want to be forced into server merges because players refuse to let go of virtual assets and push what they want onto others.
If the cheap transfers were working to fix this population issue we wouldn't have need of this thread.
Are you against free whole legacy transfers as a potential fix to the population issues?
RIP APAC Players 😢😢😢😢💦
APAC - sign this thread to say goodbye
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=936181

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
06.09.2017 , 03:31 AM | #507
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
Ping, latency, lag or what ever people want to call it is a major issue in pvp. It is especially sensitive for people who already play with exceptionally high lag, so any increase above 220-230ms for those people in the APAC region basically rules out them playing pvp or lag sensitive NiM OPs without their teams carrying them.
I'm Apac (NZ) and play off a ~170 ping to west coast - are you playing east coast? Iirc the route out of both NZ/Aus to the US is the same so if you are getting that sort of ping it does seem odd.

Either way I'm personally not in favour of merging the 2 coasts so ping wouldn't be effected, though if you are east coast a merge to west coast would actually help you.


Quote:
My idea is obviously the free legacy transfers I've already posted so people can vote with their feet. That's the basic premise of it, but there are lots of details and pitfall ps to it as well. I'll leave it at that till this thread turns around and the idea doesn't need get drowned our with people saying the same stuff backwards and forwards. The more that happens, the more those ideas get drowned out. And as I've said before, that will mean Bio won't listen to any of us and they implement something that could ruin the game for everyone.
Free legacy transfers between what servers though? I've no issue with that off the servers deemed to be dead but offering it on the likes of the still fairly active servers (yet not as highly populated as the top servers) could just promote those servers to die and hurt those who really don't want to move.

The good thing with a merge is no one is left behind, people might ***** and moan about it at first but they would get used to it (assuming same coast server merges so no latency issues) is my belief. I went through Dalborra merge and many weren't happy about it but in the end it gave me a far more positive gaming experience than what I was having on Dalborra at the time - all of a sudden I was getting queue pops on all content in APAC timezone (better than the apac server heh) and it was really quite awesome, got me into raiding when before the option of trying to raid was to do so through a guild and commit to a set time to do something I had no idea if I would enjoy or not - now I love raiding. Makes me wonder how many miss out on this same sort of introduction to raiding simply because they can't get groups.

Icykill_'s Avatar


Icykill_
06.09.2017 , 03:53 AM | #508
Quote: Originally Posted by MeNaCe-NZ View Post
Free legacy transfers between what servers though? I've no issue with that off the servers deemed to be dead but offering it on the likes of the still fairly active servers (yet not as highly populated as the top servers) could just promote those servers to die and hurt those who really don't want to move.

The good thing with a merge is no one is left behind, people might ***** and moan about it at first but they would get used to it (assuming same coast server merges so no latency issues) is my belief. I went through Dalborra merge and many weren't happy about it but in the end it gave me a far more positive gaming experience than what I was having on Dalborra at the time - all of a sudden I was getting queue pops on all content in APAC timezone (better than the apac server heh) and it was really quite awesome, got me into raiding when before the option of trying to raid was to do so through a guild and commit to a set time to do something I had no idea if I would enjoy or not - now I love raiding. Makes me wonder how many miss out on this same sort of introduction to raiding simply because they can't get groups.
"Bio guys - Please address all the technical issues people are scared about before attempting anything too drastic and risky 😉"

I think the destination servers for the "free legacy transfer idea" would need to be discussed and it's something I would encourage us all to do.
Personally I think there will probably have to be one or two that will have to be locked out of being a destination server or this might just be a big waste of time.
Maybe Bio could start an official poll that can only be answered by subscribers and it is linked to their account so that they can only vote once.
The poll could be more than one question and it could ask possible questions like.. "what is the most important part of the game for you".. ie are you a RP, are you a pvper, are you story focused, group content FP/OPs.. they could even ask you to rank these in order of importance to your gaming experience.
I'm sure there are many other questions or ways to format that quick idea. It would also be good for Bio to see what the real mix of players are and what's the importantance of the different aspects of the games for them. That has to be better than how they currently try to determine what is important to us.
They can put it on the login screen to get people's attention and have a short explanation about it and what it's for.

Anyway, have to go, I have Pizza arriving. I'll try to add or respond to this later.

Edit : finished pizza... too full now, I was a little. 🐷

I forgot the actual reason I mentioned a poll, which is to find out the best destination servers. It could ask people what server they currently play on, wether they would prefer to transfer off it and where would they like to go. Those questions, along with the others could allow them to build a picture on which servers are the better destination ones.
As an example, maybe they would rule out Pot5 and Bastion as destination servers.
I don't know if that is the right answer, I'm just throwing it out there as a possible idea.
RIP APAC Players 😢😢😢😢💦
APAC - sign this thread to say goodbye
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=936181

Otaktey's Avatar


Otaktey
06.09.2017 , 04:11 AM | #509
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
This would quite obviously help with quece times for people who presently are having long queces. The only problem I can see that might be an issue is this wouldn't allow you to form groups to quece together [premades] because you wouldn't be able to communicate between servers in order to coordinate because you can't tell who's online on a different server. U could still quece with people from your own server of course. Thing is though if some people are on servers with low populations [from which one can presume if there were enough people to make premades on your own server, you probably wouldn't be having long queces.


Lastly, while this wouldn't be a reason to not contend the idea of cross server queces, I could easily see PVP turning into server wars. Along similar lines, I could also see those server's with larger populations would have an easier time of making premades from their own servers while low population servers would likely not be able to counter them with their own premades a great amount of the time.

Just something to consider in trying run with the idea realistically as perhaps steps could be taken to mitigate such imbalances between servers.

Even still, server wars would be inevitable [ which could in some ways maybe be fun actually heh if the toxicity wasn't there.].
YES!!! Now we are thinking this through as a group. You are 100% correct about this, and Blizzard has a system for that, which I forgot to mention. They have a cross game communication that players from any blizzard game can not only message each other, but now they have added voice chat with it so you don't even need TS or mumble. It is called battlenet. When you install one of their games, it also installs battlenet.
I believe Bioware has one too and SWTOR does their billing through it now. Origin... So all they need to do is install origin with SWTOR, and if you get in a cross server group with some cool players you can add them to your Origin friend's list. That would be even better because you could see them online if they are playing Mass Effect, and be like "hey bro, wanna throw down in EV with us?" And your friend would be like "yeah I do, let me switch games!" And then you would be like "Cool, but Keith and Eric are running with us, so we are probably going to wipe, cause Keith is healing on his OP again!"

MeNaCe-NZ's Avatar


MeNaCe-NZ
06.09.2017 , 04:24 AM | #510
Quote: Originally Posted by Icykill_ View Post
"Bio guys - Please address all the technical issues people are scared about before attempting anything too drastic and risky 😉"

I think the destination servers for the "free legacy transfer idea" would need to be discussed and it's something I would encourage us all to do.
Personally I think there will probably have to be one or two that will have to be locked out of being a destination server or this might just be a big waste of time.
Maybe Bio could start an official poll that can only be answered by subscribers and it is linked to their account so that they can only vote once.
The poll could be more than one question and it could ask possible questions like.. "what is the most important part of the game for you".. ie are you a RP, are you a pvper, are you story focused, group content FP/OPs.. they could even ask you to rank these in order of importance to your gaming experience.
I'm sure there are many other questions or ways to format that quick idea. It would also be good for Bio to see what the real mix of players are and what's the importantance of the different aspects of the games for them. That has to be better than how they currently try to determine what is important to us.
They can put it on the login screen to get people's attention and have a short explanation about it and what it's for.

Anyway, have to go, I have Pizza arriving. I'll try to add or respond to this later.
I'm not overly worried about destination server as long as it's not a dead PVP server. More so the source server for free transfers should be a dead pvp server. Other transfers (legacy) should cost.

This is based on the biggest problem right now being those dead PVP servers, sorting those first is a good step in to anything else in the future as you ideally don't affect too much population if things go wrong.