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Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Immortal Juggernaut/Defense Guardian Set Bonus Discussion
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xAZUREx's Avatar


xAZUREx
07.21.2015 , 12:33 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
Seems pretty boring to me, I'd rather keep the current set bonuses than this.
its not supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be balanced
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AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
07.21.2015 , 12:47 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by xAZUREx View Post
its not supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be balanced
Well, for tanks at least, set bonuses are balanced enough. No point in making these boring bonuses. I'd also like to add that defensive stats aren't all that useful in pvp, since a big part of the damage you take is through guard.

Davuk's Avatar


Davuk
07.28.2015 , 09:06 AM | #33
Set Bonuses typically(IMHO) should be tuned to the content from which the bonus is acquired. Granted they can be used at any time but presumably the bonuses that appear in a tier are tuned to the mechanics of the bosses in that tier and are targeted to help smooth over rough spots in progression. (Of course I could be completely crazy and the Devs just have a huge set bonus Plinko board but I prefer my delusion.)

Next expansion there initially are no new ops or bosses we'll be spending our nights relearning how to do the old content the way it was intended to be done instead of face rolling it. The downside of this is the shear number of ops and bosses to be learned\relearned.
Presumably when a new Op does come out it would have a new Tier with new set bonuses thus I recommend making these intermediate Set Bonuses things that helps either the tank or the whole raid deal with the learning curve.

2p - Movement Speed increased by x% for each hit of untargeted damage (AOE). IE help you get out of Fire quicker once you realize your standing in it.

4p - CD on Taunt reduced by x% for each debuff or stack of a debuff applied. Helps recover from a mistaunt in a tank swap.

6p - On use the focused defense(or warding Call or Saber Ward) effect is applied to all members of the ops team. An additional Op Wide CD.
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DethlaHadyn's Avatar


DethlaHadyn
08.03.2015 , 12:17 AM | #34
Set bonuses are irrelevant.

Jug tanking in pvp is a complete joke.

The immortal tree is laughable by design.

The "enhanced dps"(????) attributes are disgraceful.

I get that sabre reflect is a major component for pve bosses, but it's useless in common pvp applications, given its puny attributes and cooldown, within unpredictable punitive contexts.

Crushing blow??? Lmfao. If crushing blow could deliver and also spread the Shii-cho force crush effect, then pvp jug tanks *might* stand a chance at comparable dps output like our PT counterparts.

Until they revamp the Immortal tree, pvp jug tanking will always be a pathetic waste of time.

Atrocious. ATROCIOUS!!!

Horano_Heresy's Avatar


Horano_Heresy
08.12.2015 , 09:47 PM | #35
Have to disagree with the people bagging on the 4-piece set bonus. It's valuable.

A set bonus increasing defense chance by a small amount would be amazing
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Methoxa's Avatar


Methoxa
08.14.2015 , 03:24 PM | #36
Quote:
A set bonus increasing defense chance by a small amount would be amazing
Why would we need even more protection against M/R+K/E damage? Juggs are vulnerable to F/T+KE damage and thats why we need shield or absorb. Furthermore I/E damage was increased within the new operations which made Assasin Tanks really valuable for their increased protection against this damage type especially with the old 186 gear. Not to mention PTs with their gread DCD Explosive fuel which increased their chance to resist I/E damage by 30%. Either more shield/absorb or more shielding by sonic barrier/sonic wall otherwise Juggs will fall behind.

Furthermore defense does not do anything in pvp. Keep in mind that pvp setbonus and pve setbonus are the same. Most dmg in pvp is F/T+KE. Thus we need more shield or absorb. Compared to pts or assas Juggs just have the lowest shield and absorb of those classes because most of our skills only increase defense chance. Looking at the new class talents also reveals that ravage now gives us 6% more defense. Wow even more uselessness. This exactly shows how much designers want the jug to be the defense tank, instead of balancing the classes. But without making F/T+K/E defendable with the new addon the changes are going to make the juggernaut the worst tank.

Quote:
I get that sabre reflect is a major component for pve bosses, but it's useless in common pvp applications, given its puny attributes and cooldown, within unpredictable punitive contexts.
It was made less useful for most pve bosses
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Horano_Heresy's Avatar


Horano_Heresy
08.26.2015 , 12:31 AM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Methoxa View Post
Why would we need even more protection against M/R+K/E damage? Juggs are vulnerable to F/T+KE damage and thats why we need shield or absorb. Furthermore I/E damage was increased within the new operations which made Assasin Tanks really valuable for their increased protection against this damage type especially with the old 186 gear. Not to mention PTs with their gread DCD Explosive fuel which increased their chance to resist I/E damage by 30%. Either more shield/absorb or more shielding by sonic barrier/sonic wall otherwise Juggs will fall behind.

Furthermore defense does not do anything in pvp. Keep in mind that pvp setbonus and pve setbonus are the same. Most dmg in pvp is F/T+KE. Thus we need more shield or absorb. Compared to pts or assas Juggs just have the lowest shield and absorb of those classes because most of our skills only increase defense chance. Looking at the new class talents also reveals that ravage now gives us 6% more defense. Wow even more uselessness. This exactly shows how much designers want the jug to be the defense tank, instead of balancing the classes. But without making F/T+K/E defendable with the new addon the changes are going to make the juggernaut the worst tank.



It was made less useful for most pve bosses
100% agree with you man. I was trying to be sarcastic

Immortal Juggernauts have been given the short end of the stick, as it were. I'm glad they implemented some increases to Absorption with Aegis Assault in 3.0, and I'm hoping they do something additional so that as a tanking class we're more on par with our rivals. Sick of seeing only Powertechs and Assassins in the hardcore progression groups
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<Renascent>

AidenMia's Avatar


AidenMia
08.27.2015 , 12:26 PM | #38
Lets be honest here people. Jugg tanking sucks!!!! Always has and always will until the devs stop catering to pvp players. Pvp and pve gear, set bonus, and so on should be completely different. I Jugg tanked for years and I will probably never use that toon again in a raid. Awesome defensive abbilities, Zero threat (this has been the issue since beta and the devs think that making a Jugg tank harder to kill is going to help my raid team, that's what my healers for). When are you going to give Juggs a decent chance of holding threat? Backhand? What a joke!! The whole class is a joke. The only tank worth playing is a powertech and you guys are going to screw that up with 4.0 i'm pretty sure. All because a bunch of pvp'ers are complaining. As usual. You guys have dumbed this game down worse than WOW, and bordering on GW2. PVE Jugg tanks don't need a passive speed boost brought on by proc. Assasin tanks have one, PT tanks have one, and of course once again juggs get the shaft. The gear that is available is a joke as well. Alacrity? Really? Why in God's name would any tank choose alacrity over main stat or tertiary? It's mind boggling that you guys would even have that discussion at the table. Before you start trying to improve (Bwhahahahahahahah!!!!!) the set bonuses, why don't you finally fix the myriad of things that have been wrong with Juggs since you guys launched this game? You've had 4 years!!!!!! And nothing!!!! So stupid!!!!. We need threat above and beyond anything else, a speed boost ability that is activated like the other tanks have, NO MORE ALACRITY!!! None of us care what you say about this worthless stat (Unless your a healer). Alacrity should not be in a single piece of gear, at all. for tanks. Period!! Get it through your heads!!! NO ALACRITY!!! Threat, we need threat.

AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
08.28.2015 , 01:29 PM | #39
I really don't see why people are complaining about jugg tank threath? I rarely have issues with it, only times I might lose aggro is when opening and everybody's got all their offensives and is doing opening burst, which is why the 4piece is so great, because you get a straight 18 seconds of guaranteed boss facing you, which is enough time to gather enough aggro.

Horano_Heresy's Avatar


Horano_Heresy
08.30.2015 , 04:49 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I really don't see why people are complaining about jugg tank threath? I rarely have issues with it, only times I might lose aggro is when opening and everybody's got all their offensives and is doing opening burst, which is why the 4piece is so great, because you get a straight 18 seconds of guaranteed boss facing you, which is enough time to gather enough aggro.
Totally agree with this. The class is not overly difficult to play.

I think with the changes brought about to the class in 3.0, Immortal Juggernauts got a decent boost to AoE threat. Crushing Blow in combination with the Aegis Assault buff and our Sweeping Slash attack both hit up to 8 targets, up from 4. Saber Reflect also helps a lot with generating threat on multiple targets. Yes, Powertechs and Assassins still perform better for AoE threat, but I think that's the beauty in playing the class -- it's challenging, but fun.

I think the only issue I have is when targets are spread out, just the affects of being a purely melee class. I find Threatening Scream + Saber Reflect helps in these sort of situations.
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