I would like to know, because who actually asked for this in unranked? I fear that it is just a few VERY VOCAL players posting daily here. I play unranked almost every day since years ago and I can count with my fingers the times someone complained ingame about a quitter.

I don't have a problem with people leaving the match. I do have a problem with people staying forcibly, afk, or just farming numbers instead of trying to win. Some people can't stand Huttball and it is my favorite map. I'd prefer that all those players leave ASAP and leave room for others that are going to try to win.

I get it in ranked. But in unranked? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE, there's 8 players. It is about objectives, not constant dps and death. No one cares if someone leaves, it is actually better if they do.

At least allow quitting at the start of the match.

I'm worried about how BW is gathering feedback. Most of us don't post here ever.

If you want to save PvP, in my view, then you need to not leave warzones. I'm not sure if you appreciate what that does for new or more occasional players. They see people leave regularly and this is a detriment to THEIR experience and this is part of the problem with getting people to play PvP at all.

I get that you're looking out for no. 1 and that this is more typical within the PvP crowd but if you are allowed to leave warzones without a penalty then this downtrend of people losing interest in PvP will continue as far as I'm concerned.

Personally I don't PvP at all anymore. I used to quite regularly but one of my frustrations was people constantly leaving and thereby leaving the rest of us with a smaller sized team than the opponents.

I mean, has this even ever crossed your mind? Did you consider what it means for the rest of the team? It's not like the empty slots are being filled automatically, the queues being what they are.

There's a couple of threads complaining about it on the PvP forums. It's pretty frustrating when you have such little control of what kind of match you get in this game. Having both a deserter lockout and the inability to choose the mode isn't a fun idea.

Sure but that's a different problem that you're trying to solve with a bad solution for PvP overall. They did comment on this in the livestream so perhaps there is light at the end of the PvP tunnel. Point is that everybody hates different things. A lot of people hate Huttball, I happen to enjoy it. I hate the cap and hold maps cause they're boring af. To me at least.

So where does that leave the queue then? Would you be happy to meet almost the exact same people regularly if it meant you got your choice of maps?

So where does that leave the queue then? Would you be happy to meet almost the exact same people regularly if it meant you got your choice of maps?

Yep. It would be great to play with 7 other people that actually wanted to play Huttball.

Yep. It would be great to play with 7 other people that actually wanted to play Huttball.

Well the opposing team being the same as well of course. But if that's cool with you then your argument is fair. Not to leave but to add a separate queue for huttball. I'd join for that

It's pretty frustrating when you have such little control of what kind of match you get in this game. Having both a deserter lockout and the inability to choose the mode isn't a fun idea.

What is funny is that they reduced OPG queues. Ok not my favorite, but also I don't hate it, and I know others that actually loved it. Why the people that hate OPG have the right to avoid it but the rest of us are stuck with maps we hate?

Suffice to say I just don't. Alt+f4 and I go do something else. So yeah, I don't really see the point of all this. Why wouldn't they allow quitting at the start? Maybe to avoid a healer unbalance? But I can live with that.

Also related: they have to address the objective / farmer debacle. Some people just want to deathmatch. Others want to do objectives. I think they should add a 8v8 deathmatch map and the option to queue either that or the original objective maps. Remove scoreboard from objective matches.

I mean, has this even ever crossed your mind? Did you consider what it means for the rest of the team? It's not like the empty slots are being filled automatically, the queues being what they are.

Yeah. I pointed this out that the inconvenience of one person pales to the inconvenience of 15 other people, but this falls on deaf ears. No one grasps that concept anymore.

I don't leave warzones because of the map. I genuinely don't care which map it is.

I leave warzones when they are "oh, look, there's SteveTheCynic again, get 'im boys" and I get five-on-oned every time I leave the spawn refuge. Being able to choose my map wouldn't help with that problem.

I don't leave warzones because of the map. I genuinely don't care which map it is.

 

I leave warzones when they are "oh, look, there's SteveTheCynic again, get 'im boys" and I get five-on-oned every time I leave the spawn refuge. Being able to choose my map wouldn't help with that problem.

The problem is, I see guys say this in chat and I seen them dying no more than myself or others.

I think sometimes people really feel they are singled out when in reality the other team just has people that know how to focus target and they do so effectively.

The focus target isn't necessarily on anyone more than anyone else, it just seems that way to the individual when they get melted 8-10 times in a match.

That's why I have a problem when people start leaving matches not because of map, but because they feel they are dying too much, or the other team is "2 stronk." Well, now we get people who leave matches whenever they start to lose, it becomes habitual then. As soon as it gets rough, time to bail the match.

What is funny is that they reduced OPG queues. Ok not my favorite, but also I don't hate it, and I know others that actually loved it. Why the people that hate OPG have the right to avoid it but the rest of us are stuck with maps we hate?

 

Suffice to say I just don't. Alt+f4 and I go do something else. So yeah, I don't really see the point of all this. Why wouldn't they allow quitting at the start? Maybe to avoid a healer unbalance? But I can live with that.

 

Also related: they have to address the objective / farmer debacle. Some people just want to deathmatch. Others want to do objectives. I think they should add a 8v8 deathmatch map and the option to queue either that or the original objective maps. Remove scoreboard from objective matches.

I'm sure there were metrics that showed OPG had similar drop rates to queshball and vandin.

So where are Bioware coming from with a deserter lockout?

Here is my take on what they are doing or trying to achieve with the lock out timer for leaving matches.

1. Bioware want to make their match making system work (which it can’t with people leaving and back filling. But we also know it has not worked properly since they introduced it. So that’s something they need to fix)

2. Bioware are trying to keep player numbers on teams even so we don’t have teams with less players

3. Bioware are trying to stop people rage quitting when things get hard (this is supposed to make people stay and try)

4. Bioware want to stop some people from cherry picking teams

5. Bioware want to improve the quality of the pvp matches

Now, they are all lofty goals and on their own (in a vacuum). And they are reasonable reasons for having a lock out.

The problem is, the lockout doesn’t work in a vacuum and there are other changes they’ve made and others they haven’t made yet that make this lockout detrimental to their goals, to the players and to the overall pvp game.

One of the biggest changes in conjunction with the lockout is to the mission structure, so that a loss doesn’t count towards completing the mission. (This was another reason they added the lockout so that people wouldn’t rage quit as soon as it looked like they were going to lose).

The reason they made this change was to make people try and win more than just death matching. Which is also a lofty goal. But a big stick approach is too much when a smaller stick and better rewards would be more encouraging.

But there are things they haven’t done yet to make this work or considered other problems these combined changes have that make people want to leave pvp matches. They are putting road blocks in place instead of treating the problem. Which isn’t earning them any friends and it’s detrimental to queue numbers and player participation.

On top of that, these things need to be fixed for a system like this to work.

1. They haven’t added an option yet to have some choice on what maps you want to play (you need this if you are going to have a lock out timer)

2. They haven’t addressed unbalanced matchmaking or class stacking (this needs to be fixed urgently if they are going to change it so losses don’t count towards missions)

3. They haven’t taken into account premades vs pugs (especially in 4v4 is not fair and often a loss. They don’t put group ranked players against solo ranked players for this very reason). We don’t have enough players for seperate pug and premade reg queues (so that’s not an option anymore).

4. The system can’t tell if you disconnect or leave on purpose (So if you DC through no fault of your own, you get a deserter timer. Other games like WoW can tell the difference).

5. The system puts the deserter timer on you if you get vote kicked by trolls.

6. Matches often start with uneven teams.

7. When a lockout timer is applied, it essentially takes that person out of the queue for 15mins. This is a big problem during low pop times or in lowbies and Mids due to low pop numbers. Because if you only have 8 players for 4v4 and you take one out of the queue, it will keep popping 3v4 matches.

8. If a player is being abused or trolled, they may be forced to leave matches

9. Some teams don’t try to win and don’t care. So with losing not counting towards missions, you are basically wasting your time with these guys if you keep getting put on their teams each match. If you leave, you then find yourself with a lockout timer

Its my opinion if these things are not addressed or taken into consideration, then the lockout timer and changes to mission completion will ultimately have more of a negative effect on pvp participation than a positive effect on player enjoyment. This will lead to less people playing pvp and pops will slow as it snow balls into Primetime.

There are options I think Bioware can do to tweak what they’ve done and still work towards their goal of getting people to stop leaving matches and to try and win matches instead of death matching.

1. Bring back the points system for both wins and losses counting towards mission completion. But make it so a win gives you 3 points and a loss gives you 1 point. (The old system was 2 point for a win and 1 points for a loss. This was obviously too easy to achieve the mission with two losses for the daily and 10 losses for the weekly).

2. Reduce the premade size to two man (down from 4 man). It reduces the prospects of 4 man premades going up against 4 man pugs in arena. And if there are 4 players in premades, then you have 1 premade per side. (This is a compromise because we don’t have enough players to have 2 queue seperate queues).

3. Reduce the lockout timer to 10 mins during high pop times (when 8v8 is popping) and reduce it to 5 mins during low pop times (when 4v4 is popping). Because when you add a long lockout, it also affects legitimate people in the queue because they have to wait longer for pops too (this is especially problematic during low pop times).

4. Add more rewards for winning pvp matches (more than now). Losing should not get rewards besides health packs.

5. Games should not start until team numbers are even.

6. They can still start with less players, ie 3v3, but it should then lock it so it stays 3v3 with no back fills unless someone leaves. If someone declines a pop and teams aren’t even before the match is ready to start, it should add 30 secs to count down and if another player doesn’t join, it cancels the match and puts everyone back in the queue.

7. If the numbers in the queue aren’t even, then it takes the first even amount of players to make a match and one person waits till the next match. Then it rotates players through until there are an even number of players for both teams to have max players.

8. Remove the lockout from lowbies and Mids bracket because they are mostly a ghost town anyway. Which means most matches are already 4v4 and between the same 6-16 players. Adding a lockout only slows down the queue considerably or kills it completely. But if there has to be a lockout timer, it shouldn’t be longer than 5 mins.

9. Remove the vote kick feature. But make it easier to report iand police people doing the wrong thing. Ie, afking in the corner or abusing people. This could be as easy as right click report player and then a drop down list of reasons so the process is as automated as possible and players don’t have to stop and write a report during a match. It should record the reported player details and chat for the match. This would also make it easier to report cheaters too.

If Bioware decide to not make any tweaks soon, I believe the changes they’ve made will be detrimental to pvp and it will snowball fast till it starts to kill the queues in primetime (like its starting to outside of it). Their only option at that point would be to artificially prop up player numbers so the queues pop. And the way they’ve done that in the past is with server mergers. Which have improved numbers in the queue, but degraded the pvp quality because good players kept leaving. I don’t think anyone wants them to have to merge servers again when this can be averted if tweaks are made quickly enough.

Anyway, that’s my take on the lockout timer situation and some ideas for tweaks to achieve the goals they want, while also keeping pvp healthy.

I hope someone at Bioware reads this and other comments across the forums before it’s too late.

I'm sure there were metrics that showed OPG had similar drop rates to queshball and vandin.

The difference is the Quesh and Vandin Maps were bugged and had lots of Dysnc. They were a major reason problem dropped the he maps.

OPG probably had a similar drop rate, but the maps wasn’t functionally bugged, it was just poorly played due to its design. The map it’s self would be a great ranked 8v8 map (if we still had that ranked), but as it’s designed, it’s not conducive to pug regs at the moment. Hopefully they have some plans to tweak it in the future, maybe after they bring back Quesh and Vandin.

I would like to know, because who actually asked for this in unranked? I fear that it is just a few VERY VOCAL players posting daily here. I play unranked almost every day since years ago and I can count with my fingers the times someone complained ingame about a quitter.

 

I played pvp for years*, and if I had a dollar for everytime someone complained, I'd be so rich, I'd probably be to busy to play now

*Don't play anymore, gave up due to the many bugs, cheats, and Huttball crap

I

I don't have a problem with people leaving the match. I do have a problem with people staying forcibly, afk, or just farming numbers instead of trying to win. Some people can't stand Huttball and it is my favorite map. I'd prefer that all those players leave ASAP and leave room for others that are going to try to win.

Problem with this is, 4 people on 1 team could quit, and then the people that join quit too, and meanwhile the other team is walking all over everyone, and your team is then moaning, and fighting, etc, etc, etc. And don't say it doesn't happen, it does. Hopefully being able to pick and choose your maps in the future will help with this. Although, I wonder how long it will be before people are complaining their fav (and only chosen) map(s) are popping fast enough.

 

I'm worried about how BW is gathering feedback. Most of us don't post here ever.

They get plenty of feedback, that's not the issue, the issue is, they don't seem to listen to most of it, and what they do listen doesn't seem to come from the players, or the forums.

Until they remove the lock out timers in lowbies and Mids, I won’t be queuing for them. It’s Complete bull**** that I can not leave matches and requeue when I get a premade on my team and all they want to do is farm dps the whole match and not try. It’s a complete waste of my time because I get nothing for losing and they don’t care.

Then the next match I get 2 people on my team who don’t try in 4v4. And the one after that it’s the same two plus me vs the premade who just wants to farm dps from the other game. Then I queue for.third match and it another 3v4 against the same premade.

So to sum up.

I get a void Star with a premade on my team who doesn’t try to win and stretches it out as long as possible so they can farm dps.

Then I get two 2 guys on my team who say they don’t care about winning in a 4v4 and they don’t try. Plus it’s a 3v4 match, so not fair.

The next match is another 3v4 and it’s against the premade from the first game and they just stomp us till everyone’s dead but me and then they all stealth out and play silky buggers till the acid. Then purposely lose the second round so it goes to a third round and they do the same thing with the acid. Then kill me and laugh and spit on me.

Why the f*** should I have to cop a deserter timer in lowbies under any of those conditions. It’s a complete disgrace and the whole thing has put me off every pvping in this game again. I’m so goddam mad at the moment I nearly smash my mouse.

Remove the deserter timer in regs. Especially lowbies and Mids. Then make it so you get some points for a loss. If you don’t, then you’ll find more and more people leaving and more and more trolls doing what happened to me for kicks. Which mean more people get upset like me and don’t want to play and that leads to pvp failing totally as this rubbish snowballs.

Mark my words Bioware, if you don’t tweak this system you are doing more harm to pvp than if you’d left it the way it was.

Until they remove the lock out timers in lowbies and Mids, I won’t be queuing for them. Complete bull**** that I can not leave matches and requeue when I get a premade on my team and all they want to do is farm dps the whole match and not try. It’s a complete waste of my time because I get nothing for losing and they don’t care.

This is why the game needs different queues with different purposes. What you are trying to do here is to solve your issue and raise your middle finger to the rest of the team. I get WHY you want it, but I'd rather they solve this differently than allowing people to quit warzones unpunished.

For example, unranked being solo only instead of allowing premades in them is one step. Another is that the farming of kills should be deincentivized. This can be done in different ways. The problem is that you should address the poor behavior and not by another form of poor behavior.

This is why the game needs different queues with different purposes. What you are trying to do here is to solve your issue and raise your middle finger to the rest of the team. I get WHY you want it, but I'd rather they solve this differently than allowing people to quit warzones unpunished.

 

For example, unranked being solo only instead of allowing premades in them is one step. Another is that the farming of kills should be deincentivized. This can be done in different ways. The problem is that you should address the poor behavior and not by another form of poor behavior.

I said all that before they made these dumb changes. They chose to go down the lock out path and also remove any reward for losing.

The trolls don’t care and you can’t leave without being penalised. Bioware need to remove it from lowbies and Mids at least and make loses count or no one is going to play in those brackets. It’s bad enough that people are running 4 man premades in those brackets to troll people, but it’s worse that the game puts 3v4 and you can’t leave while they get their jollies.

And 15 min lock out during a low pop is why we end up in this situation too. At the most it should be 5 mins under low pop conditions, not 15 mins because that’s why we end up with 3v4 after someone gets sick of being trolled.

This is going to be worse than people leaving. At least if they leave, you can too and stop these idiot situations. But if you are locked into staying, you just don’t want to keep playing.

Edit: cooled off and requeued hoping those guys would be gone. But they’ve done the damage now and killed the queue and it’s not popping.

See this is exactly what I was afraid of and it proves my point that this system is going to do more harm than good.