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3.2.1 Marauder/Sentinel Insight: Defensive Forms


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Hey everyone,

 

We’ve been following the discussions regarding the Annihilation/Watchman changes since the last PTS patch, and I wanted to take a moment to lend some insight on a few points and discuss potential improvements. We will start by discussing the 3.2.1 changes to Defensive Forms.

 

Defensive Forms:

 

We know that this has been a sensitive topic for some time and found it pertinent to reassess the Utility and expand its functionality. By dividing the original buffs among multiple Utilities and removing the stance requirement, we aim to bolster the intrigue of other Utilities and provide the opportunity for all Disciplines and stances to utilize these defensive and utility buffs as they see fit.

 

We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system. The three previously Form-restricted effects tied to the original Defensive Forms (damage reduction, internal and elemental damage reduction, and movement speed) are all great defensive and utility skills that should be player driven options in the Utility system. While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

 

We will be releasing threads concerning Marauder/Sentinel updates over the next few hours in stages. They will offer insight on Annihilation/Watch Rotation changes, Hungering/Merciless Zeal changes, and an open address on improving set bonuses to reduce their impact on limiting rotation flexibility. We are staggering the release of these posts to allow you all time to respond on individual topics and keep the discussions focused.

 

Cheers, all!

John

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John,

 

I know you guys mean well, but for the love of everything that is good can you guys stop doing that ?

We need you to tell us about potential changes beforehand. I know you guys been reading the feedback and probably implementing your variations of the ideas presented in the various threads. But the way you were handling things in the last couple of PTS periods have been very bad. If you want to change something please tell us that you are thinking about that and wait till we offer some feedback. You guys implemented the worst changes possible to the Annihilation rotation without asking a single member of the community what they thought, and worse you then disappeared and let the changes coming online and didn't even offer a single sentence of feedback in the thread. Even if you think whatever we as a community has agreed upon is crazy, tell us you think it is crazy let us come up with alternatives.

Edited by znihilist
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Hey everyone,

 

We’ve been following the discussions regarding the Annihilation/Watchman changes since the last PTS patch, and I wanted to take a moment to lend some insight on a few points and discuss potential improvements. We will start by discussing the 3.2.1 changes to Defensive Forms.

 

Defensive Forms:

 

We know that this has been a sensitive topic for some time and found it pertinent to reassess the Utility and expand its functionality. By dividing the original buffs among multiple Utilities and removing the stance requirement, we aim to bolster the intrigue of other Utilities and provide the opportunity for all Disciplines and stances to utilize these defensive and utility buffs as they see fit.

 

We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system. The three previously Form-restricted effects tied to the original Defensive Forms (damage reduction, internal and elemental damage reduction, and movement speed) are all great defensive and utility skills that should be player driven options in the Utility system. While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

 

We will be releasing threads concerning Marauder/Sentinel updates over the next few hours in stages. They will offer insight on Annihilation/Watch Rotation changes, Hungering/Merciless Zeal changes, and an open address on improving set bonuses to reduce their impact on limiting rotation flexibility. We are staggering the release of these posts to allow you all time to respond on individual topics and keep the discussions focused.

 

Cheers, all!

John

 

Basicly a big blablabla. Shut up. You are fine and have no place in this discussion.

 

Srry, if myself, Norton (mutual hate relationship), Adrell (mutual hate relationship) and almost all other Sentinel / Marauder players with the highest playtime and experience agree on somethin it should be a no brainer to implement it as we demand it. Last time I looke you made sure that as of 3.2.1. (if you don´t MASSIVLY overhaul 3.2.1. before going live) there will be no option to participate in hardmode, that is something WE ALL AGREE ON.

 

Srry, I advise you to get those engaged dozen Sent/Maras into a conference with the people working on the Sentinel/Marauder. You can be sure we are just as concerned about overall balance as you are and are far more experieneced on synergies of combat etc. aka the flow of PvP and PvE. It could really help to build trust to implement stuff all major contributers from the Classcommunity agree on into the game.

 

P.S.: Cologne Community Cantina is in August, make sure you get the stuff fixed far before then.

 

P.S.S.: As your CS will tell you my subscription has been cancelled for the first time since this game launched. Its a symbolic cancel as I have GTCs around and a guild that depends on my chancelorship.

Edited by Atlanis
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Please please please please, LISTEN to the community. It seems you are trying to prove something by trying to address some of the issues the class has by coming up with entirely new things that nobody asked for. Like you're trying to say: "Ha, we don't need you!"

But this doesn't work.

It is never ever ever ever, in NO SCENARIO possible to NOT take Stoic without being at a huge disadvantage. It is an absolute must-have for every spec in every possible scenario. No matter if PvP or PvE. I think EVERY single Mara/Sent who has any experience with this game will agree on this.

Secondly, by spreading out a single utility into multiple different ones you are NERFING the class in PvP. No beating around the bush, it's a straight up nerf. You're kicking a class in the face that's already down.

No Marauder who has the slightest clue what he's doing will take Defensive Roll or Force Fade in PvP when he can have Ardor, Incisor or Displacement. Literally never. So we're losing these benefits.

 

Please explain: Why do Juggernauts have their Single Saber Mastery baseline, while we have to spent a utility point on absolute must-haves?

 

LISTEN to us. Some of us play the class since release, some of us are in top tier PvE or PvP guilds, having spent years playing this class. I've been PvPing with it since the start of the game, ranked and unranked, and I've always been successful with this class. Since 3.0 this class has become nearly useless in solo ranked and entirely useless in group ranked against any team of equal skill.

 

The self heal buff is actually a nerf. Not only that, you are homogenizing this class with other DoT classes. Even though the community has been repeating over and over we DON'T want that.

Just give us back our old 2% on crits. This gives us more control over WHEN we want to be healed and keeps a UNIQUE aspect to this class.

Please, why are you trying to completely change things that have been working for so long?

You're kicking and beating this class over and over. Your buffs are nerfs. You ignore most of our feedback. Why? Just tell us WHY?

Edited by DynamiCtagez
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While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

 

I fail to see this is a true choice... with so much unavoidable damage going out in PvE (and no one can avoid all damage in PvP), why wouldn't you take this utility? Add in the 2% damage reduction that comes with the new Stoic utility and it makes even more sense to always have it.

 

Sorry, I just don't buy it.

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We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system...While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

 

John, the only player that this MIGHT apply to is the Sent/Mara who primarily does Op runs. Anyone running PvP, and anyone running Dailies or leveling content, is getting attacked constantly, and, as many have said (including big Sent/Mara names like Oofalong, Emperor-Norton, et al), it's not really a choice. It's practically mandatory to take.

 

I like the idea of moving the stance bonuses out and into other utilities to spice them up, but the Centering/Fury building in a utility is essentially a utility tax for us. We get one less utility because core functionality requires that ability.

 

If you're worried about holes cropping up in our utility tree, check out this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=809708

 

Though I presented as a sweeping overhaul of the class, it could easily be seen as a collection of ideas to be used by you guys. If you read it, you'll even see that I kept the Stance-based bonuses in the utilities (not tied to stances, just dispersed onto different utilities), but the Centering/Fury building was moved to baseline.

 

PLEASE, reconsider this stance on the Centering/Fury building.

 

And take a look at that thread. It may have some ideas you'll like for the class.

Edited by waterboytkd
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While yes the utility system should be offering you interesting choices we only have so many utility points. If the class can't be competitive because we don't have enough utility points to take all the utilities to make it so then perhaps you need to take a look at it again?

 

Looking forward to the Annihilation rotation post where you tell us that you aren't going to change it back and that you don't care about the community says to.

Edited by MorgenBlue
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Please please please please, LISTEN to the community. It seems you are trying to prove something by trying to address some of the issues the class has by coming up with entirely new things that nobody asked for. Like you're trying to say: "Ha, we don't need you!"

But this doesn't work.

It is never ever ever ever, in NO SCENARIO possible to NOT take Stoic without being at a huge disadvantage. It is an absolute must-have for every spec in every possible scenario. No matter if PvP or PvE. I think EVERY single Mara/Sent who has any experience with this game will agree on this.

Secondly, by spreading out a single utility into multiple different ones you are NERFING the class in PvP. No beating around the bush, it's a straight up nerf. You're kicking a class in the face that's already down.

No Marauder who has the slightest clue what he's doing will take Defensive Roll or Force Fade in PvP when he can have Ardor, Incisor or Displacement. Literally never. So we're losing these benefits.

 

Please explain: Why do Juggernauts have their Single Saber Mastery baseline, while we have to spent a utility point on absolute must-haves?

 

LISTEN to us. Some of us play the class since release, some of us are in top tier PvE or PvP guilds, having spent years playing this class. I've been PvPing with it since the start of the game, ranked and unranked, and I've always been successful with this class. Since 3.0 this class has become nearly useless in solo ranked and entirely useless in group ranked against any team of equal skill.

 

The self heal buff is actually a nerf. Not only that, you are homogenizing this class with other DoT classes. Even though the community has been repeating over and over we DON'T want that.

Just give us back our old 2% on crits. This gives us more control over WHEN we want to be healed and keeps a UNIQUE aspect to this class.

Please, why are you trying to completely change things that have been working for so long?

You're kicking and beating this class over and over. You buffs are nerfs. You ignore most of our feedback. Why? Just tell us WHY?

 

/signed

 

You said everything constructive I had no freaking motivation to post.

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found it pertinent to reassess the Utility and expand its functionality. By dividing the original buffs among multiple Utilities and removing the stance requirement, we aim to bolster the intrigue of other Utilities and provide the opportunity for all Disciplines and stances to utilize these defensive and utility buffs as they see fit.

This is not having the effect you seem to want. The reason we take Defensive forms as a utility is for Centering. If you are doing PvP without this utility you are doing it wrong. That's not an exaggeration. The spec specific bonuses are nice but they are just that: bonuses. By taking things away from this utility we need to take more utilities to get the same functionality. This is the opposite of what we want. The utilities that we need for PvP/mobility are too high up and we can't get enough of them as it is. The reason we want Defensive Forms to be passive is too free up utility points!

We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system.

Having the centering part of Defensive Forms as a utility is not having choice. This utility is MANDATORY for PvP.

While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire.

I thought utilities were meant to be... utilities. Not something that is needed for optimum DPS output. The only time a Sentinel is not taking damage is going to be in an Operation fight. The rest of the time your DPS will be severely gimped without this utility. Again, this utility is not a choice. It is required.

Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

Thank you for releasing another post and for explaining why you're doing what you're doing but... no... just no. Please listen to us. This is not what Sentinels need right now. Utilities need changing but not like this. Please.

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...

 

Defensive Forms:

 

We know that this has been a sensitive topic for some time and found it pertinent to reassess the Utility and expand its functionality. By dividing the original buffs among multiple Utilities and removing the stance requirement, we aim to bolster the intrigue of other Utilities and provide the opportunity for all Disciplines and stances to utilize these defensive and utility buffs as they see fit.

 

*snip*

 

I believe I understand what you are trying to do here. Which is take what is essentially a required utility skill and break up its utility to strengthen other utility choices. Since the utility skills are supposed to provide choice to the player, having something that is required is wrong. In other words Defensive Forms was too strong.

 

First off, the much of the pushback you are getting on this change is due to the reality that nothing about Maras/Sents is too strong given the current meta.

 

Next, Fury | Centering is so closely tied to our ability to deal damage that having it as a utility seems wrong; it's essential. Said another way, we are a pure DPS class, and melee DPS at that. Thus, we have to be in melee range to deal damage, which means we are unable to avoid much AoE damage.

 

In effect, your change to Defensive Forums neutered a required utility that is still required. Thus, we are comparatively weaker now than previously.

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I appreciate an explanation as to the reason for the changes though it appears to be too little. The desirability for marauders in progression ops of any spec is low and as it stands there isn't a single marauder of any spec in the top 100 of the ranked pvp. Breaking up defensive forms isn't going to suddenly change this. Specially if you consider the Operative gets 5% damage resistance as a skillful utility while brazen increases your damage reduction by 2%, and you build 2 Fury when attacked with this Fury building effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. Given our role as glass cannon (without very much dps) at least in an ops encounter you aren't looking to get beat on too much. And even in PvP our low damage reduction, low dps and either no or little self healing means going toe to toe with any class where we are beat on will have us loose so a couple of extra ticks of fury wont vastly improve things. Solo daily running this is probably going to be helpful.

 

While the other changes are nice little buffs. I find defensive forms is a must have in most op running, there are just too many encounters with aoe damage to pass it up so you give 5% internal and elemental damage I shall now be able to laugh as Torque sets the floor on fire. The same as Phantom, as a carnage spec I have had 15% movement speed increases since I was old enough to wield 2 sabers. It would probably turn out I wouldn't miss it if i lost it but hell it makes the phantom utility more useful than the alternatives to my mind.

 

What this doesn't do is improve the one thing that as a focused dps class we really need to excel at that being dps. The easiest way to do this across the board is to offer dual wield mastery much as you added single saber mastery. You have the metrics and can see what is happening in PvP and PvE but do you think its a coincidence that the two worst ranked PvP classes are the two that only have dps options. The Mara/Sent and Gunslinger/Sniper. Do you think that there might be a reason behind this and do you think that maybe it is to do with the dps of these classes being the same as the other more versatile ACs but not having stealth or healing or heavy armour or defensive options they have alongside their dps which is comparable to dps of pure dps classes.

 

The changes you propose are nice enough but that don't go in any shape or form to address the issues of this advanced class and you seem to be unable to see this. We are a burden in PvE and irrelevant in PvP. While I am still waiting to see the QA's video of an 8 man HM run with 4 marauders take down the new ops. Even the new Ziost op boss on HM would be a treat. But sadly the community team don't seem to want to show us how mdps is able to take on the high end content.

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PLS, Bioware, show us how sent/mara is played (visual pls), cause I really dont know it anymore. I mean a full tutorial, on every spec, and situation (pvp and pve), to show us the way specs and utilities intertwine. (Obviously you know something the community does not, or you wouldnt dare to make those changes) Edited by Aldael
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Hey everyone,

 

We’ve been following the discussions regarding the Annihilation/Watchman changes since the last PTS patch, and I wanted to take a moment to lend some insight on a few points and discuss potential improvements. We will start by discussing the 3.2.1 changes to Defensive Forms.

This would make sense... if you were releasing the PTS for 3.2.1 this weekend. Right now, its just a waste of time.

 

Defensive Forms:

While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

Except for the fact that the Fury/Centering generation from this is basically required to play the specs. I mean sure, I can chose not to take it, just like I can choose not to use Merciless Strike as a Watchman.

 

We will be releasing threads concerning Marauder/Sentinel updates over the next few hours in stages. They will offer insight on Annihilation/Watch Rotation changes, Hungering/Merciless Zeal changes, and an open address on improving set bonuses to reduce their impact on limiting rotation flexibility. We are staggering the release of these posts to allow you all time to respond on individual topics and keep the discussions focused.

More information that should've been put to the community before testing on the PTS started.

 

This makes me wonder if anyone at Bioware has even the most basic understanding of stakeholder interaction. At work we'd lose all of our support contracts if this is the way we treated our customers.

Edited by DuckimusPrime
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just before to start i want to know, if they only american serve we can reply because this message is present just here?

...i am french and i can my opinion for the 3.1.1 but it's more easy to me to talk french

 

i understand that english people it's more important but ,i play mara and i want to give my opinion and i find its damage if all mara cant give their opinions

 

you could open this same thread in forum french ?

Edited by Motherzoe
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Crazy Patchnotes:

 

Sentinel:

- Defensive Forms in its old iteration has become a baseline Passive

- Dual Wield Mastery has been reworked as a baseline Passive for all Sents

- Stoic has been changed. It now grants a increase of your movementspeed by 15%

- Defensive Roll no longer decreases the elemental/internal DMG taken. Instead the AoE DMG Reduction has been increased to 35%.

- Force fade no longer increases your Movement speed by 15%. Instead the Movemtimproving effect while Force Camo is active has been improved to 30%.

- Ardor has been merged into Fleetfooted

- Jedi Promulgator now additionally increases the DMG Reduction from Rebuke by 5%

- Just Pursuit had its effect merged into Reigning Reach and Reigning Reach has been moved to the HeroicTier

- New Skillful Utility: Watchful Mind. The stealth detection of the Sentinel has been greatly improved. He can now detect stealthe enemies of a medium Stealthlevel in a 15m Range.

- New Masterful Utility: Battle Meditation. Concentrating on the force the Sentinel can greatly improve the coordination of nearby allies improving their combat speed. Activating Valorous call increases the Alacrity of all nearby allies for 5% over 10s.

 

Watchman:

- Force Melts has been reverted to its 3.2. status

- Searing Saber hads its effect increased to 30%

- Burning Sweep now also removes the Focus Cost for Force Sweep

- Merciless Zeal has been changed Critical Hits from your burn effects heal you for 2% of your max HP

 

Combat:

- "Determination" has been added as a level 16 Passive Talent to replace Dual Wield Mastery. It increases the DMG dealt by Masterstrike by 10% and allows the skill to be channeled while moving.

- Precision had its duration increased to 4.5s

 

Concentration:

- Had its DMG slightly increased over all abilities to increase sustained DPS

 

 

Yeah I just told you everything you tried doesn´t work. I could post another dozen patchnotes just concerning fixing utilites to bring them in line with the other 7 ACs Utilities in terms of strength.

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We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system.

 

 

What choices you talking about!? Please, point to the maras who don't want to choose pre 3.2.1 Defensive Forms utility? I want to look at them... :rolleyes:

 

Oh, just look at let say Deception sin skill tree passives and sub-class passives and after that look at let say Carnage mara skill tree passives and sub-class passives. The choices! LOL! :rak_01:

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Wanted to rehash Oofalong's comment in regards to defensive forms, in an attempt to reinforce the idea.

 

Defensive Forms is not a choice if we are seeking to keep our DPS on par with the other classes in any arena of the game. Stripping it and redistributing to (still) less attractive utilities under the illusion of choice is not helping our situation. We need an actual buff to the weaker utilities to really get into a "choice" conversation.

 

We need actual forward progress far more than a haphazard rearranging.

Edited by Trogusaurus
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I thought utilities were meant to be... utilities. Not something that is needed for optimum DPS output. The only time a Sentinel is not taking damage is going to be in an Operation fight. The rest of the time your DPS will be severely gimped without this utility. Again, this utility is not a choice. It is required.

 

^this

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Hey everyone,

 

We’ve been following the discussions regarding the Annihilation/Watchman changes since the last PTS patch, and I wanted to take a moment to lend some insight on a few points and discuss potential improvements. We will start by discussing the 3.2.1 changes to Defensive Forms.

 

Defensive Forms:

 

We know that this has been a sensitive topic for some time and found it pertinent to reassess the Utility and expand its functionality. By dividing the original buffs among multiple Utilities and removing the stance requirement, we aim to bolster the intrigue of other Utilities and provide the opportunity for all Disciplines and stances to utilize these defensive and utility buffs as they see fit.

 

We understand that many of you have been calling for Defensive Forms to be made baseline, but we need to maintain choice within the Utility system. The three previously Form-restricted effects tied to the original Defensive Forms (damage reduction, internal and elemental damage reduction, and movement speed) are all great defensive and utility skills that should be player driven options in the Utility system. While the Fury/Centering generation applied by Defensive Forms (and the new Brazen/Stoic) improves the DPS and defensive output of Marauders/Sentinels who are being actively attacked, it does nothing for those who are avoiding damage or attention and allowing their team/companions to draw the target’s ire. Due to this fact, we are leaving this Fury/Centering generation skill as a player choice and not moving it to a class-baseline passive.

 

We will be releasing threads concerning Marauder/Sentinel updates over the next few hours in stages. They will offer insight on Annihilation/Watch Rotation changes, Hungering/Merciless Zeal changes, and an open address on improving set bonuses to reduce their impact on limiting rotation flexibility. We are staggering the release of these posts to allow you all time to respond on individual topics and keep the discussions focused.

 

Cheers, all!

John

 

 

What i got out this was your not changing the changes and pretty much tell us we dont know what we talking about? if those defensive forms changes and other changes go t threw as they are I will be forced to pull point out of something to get back what i should have. that i cant afford to do

 

Just suck it up and make defensive forms a baseline, btw every marauder need the fury building system built in to defensive form the despite that stupid comment you made about it. just like EVERY marauder needs Defensive roll if you want to separate all the effect of defensive forms for all to get then just put them in to Defensive rolls

 

Again do yous actual play this game or just play it on paper? if these changes go threw as is I will be done, cause these changes dont help us the make things worse for majority.

Edited by Kyuuu
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I really don't think or recall anyone asking for this.

 

People did request that Defensive forms become baseline but no one in they're right mind wants it split up and spread into other weaker utilities to make them more appealing.

 

Can only think that this is being pushed on us due to PVP.

Is this being created so that we can pick utilities that have PVP and PVE benefits?

So instead of JUST making it baseline, your spreading across others that you know we'll pick anyway which in a way is making it baseline.

 

So are you looking at 2 other utilities and thinking ''right every sent/mara will pick these 2 so lets split defensive forms into these and then that allows them to spend the 1 utility point (that they normally would have used on Defensive forms) on something else...so we've baselined it without baselining it..genius *highfive*

 

At least be honest about the plan.

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Blablabla BW ...

 

You are just clueless and don't want to waste time and resources to really rework the specs and our utilities by merging some, making some others baseline, adding new ones and coding our suggestions without your special "destructo" touch before.

 

That's all.

 

Every single post you make to explain us why you are doing all these changes (that will kill the class on the long run) just smells ignorance and laziness to pull your fingers out.

 

I had already lost faith in you with 3.1.2, pretended to be THE "Sent/Mara QoL improvement and rework patch", but now I'm 100% convinced that you are just incompetents, that you don't listen to us at all and that you just don't give a **** about our melee class (oh I know, "We have TWO lightsabers").

 

Just because you don't know how it's meant to be played, and how it is difficult to compete with other classes right now.

 

You just don't care that you took our class before 3.0 to rework it for SoR, and gave it back to us with 75% of its skills, tools, rotations fluidity and fun we had before.

 

All this for ~20$ + our subs.

 

You are THIEVES, and your community will never forgive you.

 

NEVER.

 

Just keep this in mind.

Edited by DarkNecroCrusher
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I appreciate the response but the fact of the matter is that Defensive Forms is a REQUIREMENT for every mara/sent to take regardless of spec or pve/pvp to optimize their effectiveness. I suppose you could make an argument for making the centering/fury-building aspect of Defensive Forms a utility and making the stance-aspect of Defensive Forms a baseline, but you will run into the same issue we have now in that every sent/mara will have to take it to improve their effectiveness, rendering the utility "choice" meaningless
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I'm really glad you're taking the time to explain the changes. That alone is great in my book, so thank you for that.

 

I have to say, though, I disagree with the assessment of Stoic. I can agree that the the form bonuses lend themselves well to choice so those staying in the utility tree is fine. I can understand that one. But I don't agree that Stoic is much of a choice at the moment. You're never going to go that long without taking a hit which can not only build your centering up but also stop it from timing out if you're doing something that requires you to not be doing any damage (think like the colored orb mechanic in the Revan fight or opening the tanks before & during the last boss fight of Czerka Corporate Labs). Getting stunned would also be a situation where it helps maintain your centering in the event that you were close to losing it already before you got stunned.

 

Without Stoic/Defensive Forms in those situations you're likely to lose all the stacks of centering you'd already built which puts you back to zero and causes you to have to rebuild them all over again. That sucks immensely and is a large part (in my opinion) of why Stoic/Defensive Forms is so "necessary." Then add to that the fact that building centering itself takes a while without Stoic/Defensive Forms, lowering damage output for a class that is only designed to do damage and not taking that utility practically gimps you.

 

With all of that mind I'm still of the opinion that Stoic (as it is now even, with or without the 2% damage reduction) should be a baseline class passive. Doing that would open up the utility tree for more choices since at the moment Defensive Forms/Stoic is still pretty much a must have for every Sentinel spec. After that you could make a new self heal/mobility utility for the heroic tier, drop Contemplation to Masterful, and Force Fade to Skillful. I feel like that would provide a lot more choice for utilities on each level. Contemplation is still a must have in my opinion but being in the Masterful tier would make it less of a gut punch considering it's a QOL utility moreso than anything else. With the heroic tier not having Contemplation, there would be a good competition between Jedi Promulgator, Zealous Ward, and whatever new utility was added (plus the PVP and GbtF utilities in this tier) and two choices to pick from instead of one choice and Contemplation.

 

Thanks again for the insight on the changes, even if I disagree with it I'm glad we at least know the reasoning behind the changes. That's a lot better than not knowing at all.

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I need to copy and paste this so I don't have to bother writing it out every time I hear about a dev's OPINION on what sent/maras need.

 

Force camo utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Leg slash utilities need to be combined into a heroic utility.

 

Guarded by the Force utilities need to be combined into a masterful utility.

 

The new concentration cc immunity needs to be spread across the other two specs.

 

The masterful utility of meditating to stack centering needs to be baseline thus being able to utilize the guarded and saber ward utilities.

 

Oh and just in case you're not listening to every single other sent/mara about our utilities and happen to read this one, DEFENSIVE FORMS NEEDS TO BE CLASS BASELINE. AND IF YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN CHOICE IN THE UTILITY SYSTEM, DON'T OFFER A UTILITY THAT IS ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED TO SPEND A POINT ON.

 

A reddit( /r/swtor ) post a month or so ago ranked all the pvp specs putting sorc, hatred sin, whichever powertech as top tier pvp. Jug second, deception sin 3rd, sent/maras last, and everyone was pretty agreeable about the rankings(I don't remember where the other specs fell.) I know ONE, thats it, good sentinel on Bastion. but you can take any mediocre sage/sorc, hatred sin/balance shadow, pt/vg and they can run wild in warzones.

 

Putting the above listed changes into play MAYBE would move us up to about deception sins.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Jboath
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