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Lost Island observation


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Ok until 1.3 I pretty much avoided flash points so I only recently got started. My 2 50's are tanks. I don't claim to be the best player ever but I was able to successfully tank and run False Emperor and Directive 7 well enough.

 

Then there was Lost Island.

 

I noticed the challenge level on this seems a lot higher then the other level 50 flash points. Some of the boss strategies can be very unforgiving. D7 and FE were definitely more casual.

 

Now I have noticed some people earlier on this board going on about how SWtor should try less and less to follow in the footsteps of WoW for example. While some of WoW's features, like leg queue finder is useful, Lost Island started to remind me more of the level of frustrating play one usually finds in WoW's heroics or raids. Basically my concern and observation is if SWtor continues to try and emulate WoW in this regards it might lead to too many frustrated players starting to hate on this game, those who feel victimized by kick voting cyber bully elitists or even guild drama.

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It's a Tier 2 flashpoint. It requires better gear and you to have learned skills when doing the Tier 1s that will let you then be ready for it.

 

Different levels of difficulty content in a game are a good thing, especially as now you can completely avoid doing LI and still get the best gear (well, excluding Campaign.) Once you have decent gear and a solid group clearing LI HM won't be so difficult although the thought of doing it without verbal communication fills me with a little dread. We foolishly tried to pug it this afternoon (3 of us, plus a random tank) and it went badly - the tank had never done it before, had poor gear and... yeah, it just was not so good. The fights take some time to learn but once you have...well... we cleared it in 45 minutes even though our tank for the run was an alt in mediocre gear.

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When more than half of the available HM flashpoints are at the difficulty level of Lost Island, then we'll talk.

 

As it stands, only one flashpoint in this game is remotely challenging (and if you have a group of players with brains and a care factor at least above zero, it's still not really hard). One lone, single flashpoint. The only people getting frustrated by this are players who believe that every single piece of content should be handed to them on a plate with zero effort on their part.

 

This isn't about elitism. This is simply about the fact that there is only one endgame 4-man group instance where I actually have to apply something resembling effort. I actually get to have a little bit of fun because LI requires I do more than faceroll my keyboard. I get kinda cranky at how many people want to take that away from me because (apparently) 90% of flashpoints being stupidly easy just isn't enough.

Edited by Aurojiin
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wow is very easy. the latest heroic, the hour of twilight, are 3 of the easiest heroic the game ever had. in fact those 3 heroic are much easier than most heroic cataclysm started with ( blackrock cavern, shadowfang keep, grim batol) yet award 378 level gear (against 346)

so wow introduce dungeon easier awarding better loot.

 

 

i don't think swtor emulate wow on that matter, the tier 2 flaspoint are harder and award better loot (rakata chest and black hole comm). seems logic to me.

 

that being sais, there is one, only one flashpoint remotely challenging. leave it be, you have all the other to play with.

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I'm sorry, but I actually agree with most of the replies here. I think it's good that we have a Tier 2 flashpoint that is harder and more challenging than the Tier 1 flashpoints. It makes sense to me.

 

If you're arguing about the gear level required versus the actual gear obtained, that's a whole different matter. :)

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Ive gotta disagree with the main poster and agree with the others LI is a tier2 flashpoint it yields higher gear because of this therefore it is a harder hm to work towards its not one to jump into as soon as you hit 50 its more of a go in there once you have geared up a bit the reward is a nice rak chestpiece.

 

I also dont think people are going to quit because of it its just a stepping stone of difficulty once geared enough its an easy fp to skip through :)

 

My advice gear up and enjoy it :) run some ops and pick up some free gear on the way :)

 

Good luck and enjoy the challenge

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Wouldn't it make sense than if Bioware modified the leg queue finder a bit to make it that people can not queue for these higher Tiers until they meet gear requirements instead of putting LI on the same level as other non HMs?

 

 

it has been asked, seemed logical, but many "casual" find the very idea of gear check offensive. Anyone mentioning it is deemed "elitist"

 

Congratulations, you are now, an elitist. ^^

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Ok until 1.3 I pretty much avoided flash points so I only recently got started. My 2 50's are tanks. I don't claim to be the best player ever but I was able to successfully tank and run False Emperor and Directive 7 well enough.

 

Then there was Lost Island.

 

I noticed the challenge level on this seems a lot higher then the other level 50 flash points. Some of the boss strategies can be very unforgiving. D7 and FE were definitely more casual.

 

Now I have noticed some people earlier on this board going on about how SWtor should try less and less to follow in the footsteps of WoW for example. While some of WoW's features, like leg queue finder is useful, Lost Island started to remind me more of the level of frustrating play one usually finds in WoW's heroics or raids. Basically my concern and observation is if SWtor continues to try and emulate WoW in this regards it might lead to too many frustrated players starting to hate on this game, those who feel victimized by kick voting cyber bully elitists or even guild drama.

 

Yes HM LI is a bit silly, considering that flashpoints are the bread and butter for casual players making it inaccessible to many causuals (due to skill & gear requirements) sort of defeats the purpose.

 

Dont consider HM LI as a flashpoint, it's basicly a mini raid for all the players who QQ'd in the first 3 months about how easy the game was. I agree if BW continue down this path it will hurt them in the back pocket, but if your willing to learn and go back week after week then eventually you will succeed in completing this flashpoint. HM LI is a gear & skill check, both which will improve over time if you have the patience and desire to complete it.

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Yes HM LI is a bit silly, considering that flashpoints are the bread and butter for casual players making it inaccessible to many causuals (due to skill & gear requirements) sort of defeats the purpose.

 

Dont consider HM LI as a flashpoint, it's basicly a mini raid for all the players who QQ'd in the first 3 months about how easy the game was. I agree if BW continue down this path it will hurt them in the back pocket, but if your willing to learn and go back week after week then eventually you will succeed in completing this flashpoint. HM LI is a gear & skill check, both which will improve over time if you have the patience and desire to complete it.

 

p.s. I run this flashpoint (mini raid ) with the same 4 people each week, we are only starting to cycle one player out to take fellow guildies through one at a time. I would never pug this flashpoint, and suggest you dont either at this stage of the game until most players well and truly outgear HM LI. Find 3 other like minded players and chip away at it, but pugging it will only cause frustration.

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Yes HM LI is a bit silly, considering that flashpoints are the bread and butter for casual players making it inaccessible to many causuals (due to skill & gear requirements) sort of defeats the purpose.

 

Dont consider HM LI as a flashpoint, it's basicly a mini raid for all the players who QQ'd in the first 3 months about how easy the game was. I agree if BW continue down this path it will hurt them in the back pocket, but if your willing to learn and go back week after week then eventually you will succeed in completing this flashpoint. HM LI is a gear & skill check, both which will improve over time if you have the patience and desire to complete it.

 

Casuals can run it on Storymode in pretty bad gear. Multiple levels of content is a good thing, if the new content doesn't assume you've done the previous stuff then people who have done the previous stuff will find it rediculously easy. Once you're in pretty much full columi you should be fine doing Lost Island just so long as nobody in your group messes up - and it is that low tolerance of mistakes which makes pugging HM LI an idea that most of us shudder at.

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If you respect the mechanics and got adequate gear Lost Island is no problem.

 

Unless of course you bring two melee damage dealers, then the first boss might be a bit a pita.

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Yes HM LI is a bit silly, considering that flashpoints are the bread and butter for casual players making it inaccessible to many causuals (due to skill & gear requirements) sort of defeats the purpose.

 

Dont consider HM LI as a flashpoint, it's basicly a mini raid for all the players who QQ'd in the first 3 months about how easy the game was. I agree if BW continue down this path it will hurt them in the back pocket, but if your willing to learn and go back week after week then eventually you will succeed in completing this flashpoint. HM LI is a gear & skill check, both which will improve over time if you have the patience and desire to complete it.

 

Casuals can do the story mode and still experience all the same content as everyone else.

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Im sorry but how does this hurt casuals?

 

If they are as you say doing the other fps like bread and butter then after they have geared up the only thing hindering them from completing it would be knowing how to do the bosses :/

 

If there wasnt LI people would complain about fps being weak because there is your complaining it doesnt hand you rakata gear on a plate?

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Congratulations, you are now, an elitist. ^^

 

Nah I would only be an elitist if I demanded calculators and rub it in other people's faces if they didn't exceed more than three times the bare minimum. I for one hope to god that Bioware does not allow dps calculators or any such thing in this game. And if what people say about Rakata gear dropping here is true then yes it should be pushed into HM or Ops category this dungeon.

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I did it one time back when I was running in a guild. Since I'm melee I only got a spot if they were desperate. It's far and away more difficult than the other hard modes and you should not be able to queue for it until you have at least finished the story mode version so you have an idea. Half the people I've gotten are in Tionese at best and of course have never done it. I'll only attempt it once a week via LFG since if I tried it every night I'd be broke from the repair bills.
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it should be pushed into HM or Ops category this dungeon.

 

Its not a raid its a tier 2 hmfp because its a tier 2 it gives rakata gear because it can be run by 4 people it will never be classed as an op.

 

Please correct me if i am wrong and i apologise if i am but does the LFG tool have tier 1 hmfps on which is all the fps apart from LI?

 

I was also told if you complete the tier 1 you dont get the bh dailies from tier 2 on the same day?

 

If this is true then it clearly states in the LFG options that LI is infact a tier 2 fp so why would anyone complain about its toughness?

 

Im sorry for being short here but its a little annoying that people complain about having a challenge for themselves when they get to endgame so my advice is this if people are really going to rage quit over the difficulty of a hmfp instead of challenging themselves to beat it ..... go play a different game .... i suggest pac man there is no challenge there

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ok folks, i understand that for some of you, lost island is an easy mode fp. this is NOT true of melee dps. my sentinel cannot go into LI at all because it is so anti-melee. this place is ridiculously overtuned to be dropping MAINLY columi gear. and no i'm not a fresh 50, i am 2/5 rakata with everything else besides my MH being columi. i've dont my time in FPs and OPs, and im here to tell you this place makes even denova(2/4 HM) look like a joke. so tell me plz how you justify a FLASHPOINT, t2 or not bein harder than any OP in the game?
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ok folks, i understand that for some of you, lost island is an easy mode fp. this is NOT true of melee dps. my sentinel cannot go into LI at all because it is so anti-melee. this place is ridiculously overtuned to be dropping MAINLY columi gear. and no i'm not a fresh 50, i am 2/5 rakata with everything else besides my MH being columi. i've dont my time in FPs and OPs, and im here to tell you this place makes even denova(2/4 HM) look like a joke. so tell me plz how you justify a FLASHPOINT, t2 or not bein harder than any OP in the game?

 

Im assuming you mean the first boss? its usually the thing people say is the anti melee?

 

If so i can tell you it may take you a few tries but you will see it is possible with 2 melee dps your tank and healer.

 

The main thing i got wrong at first was thinking that it was a dps race to kill him its not when the arcs make it so you cant get near the droid back off wait for healing and one of the arcs surrounding to be removed and you can access to dps again as long as your tank keeps doing his job the other dps should be helping you attack however when the adds come move straight to them and take care making sure the healer doesnt get hit at all

 

it can be done my friend dont let it frustrate you into messing up if this isnt the part thats anti melee for you ask and ill do my best to help :)

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ok folks, i understand that for some of you, lost island is an easy mode fp. this is NOT true of melee dps. my sentinel cannot go into LI at all because it is so anti-melee. this place is ridiculously overtuned to be dropping MAINLY columi gear. and no i'm not a fresh 50, i am 2/5 rakata with everything else besides my MH being columi. i've dont my time in FPs and OPs, and im here to tell you this place makes even denova(2/4 HM) look like a joke. so tell me plz how you justify a FLASHPOINT, t2 or not bein harder than any OP in the game?

I'm 4/4 EC HM, so does that mean my opinion carries more weight than yours? Because I disagree.

 

Let's cut the posturing and look at the facts. Plenty of people have cleared this flashpoint with two melee DPS. You stand behind the boss. When coils land, the tank moves the boss to a safe location, and faces him towards the next destination. Since you're melee DPS and you have no reason to ever move off the boss (most of the time, even if the boss isn't moving because of a cast, you can still DPS him from the side and stay out of bad stuff... you know, apply a tiny fragment of thought to what you're doing), you can interrupt Incinerate. Rinse and repeat.

 

Does LR-5 require a bit more work when melee DPS are present? Yes. Is he hardest content in the game, some terrible wrecking ball of doom that presents a stone wall to melee DPS? Lol. No.

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I'm 4/4 EC HM, so does that mean my opinion carries more weight than yours? Because I disagree.

 

Let's cut the posturing and look at the facts. Plenty of people have cleared this flashpoint with two melee DPS. You stand behind the boss. When coils land, the tank moves the boss to a safe location, and faces him towards the next destination. Since you're melee DPS and you have no reason to ever move off the boss (most of the time, even if the boss isn't moving because of a cast, you can still DPS him from the side and stay out of bad stuff... you know, apply a tiny fragment of thought to what you're doing), you can interrupt Incinerate. Rinse and repeat.

 

Does LR-5 require a bit more work when melee DPS are present? Yes. Is he hardest content in the game, some terrible wrecking ball of doom that presents a stone wall to melee DPS? Lol. No.

 

I like this guy.... why? because he doesnt want to nerf an end game challenge

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I wish the people who are so offended by Lost Island's "difficulty" could just manage to look at it from a different perspective.

 

I enjoy the game when I actually get to play it. As in, when I'm actually required to think about what I'm doing, and when stupid mistakes get punished. LI HM and EC HM is the only content in this game where that happens (well, perhaps healing J&S on KP NiM might just qualify as well, although it's more of a HPS check). Everything else - tier 1 ops, HM flashpoints, story denova - can be sleepwalked through.

 

I don't say this with the intention of boasting, and I don't think everything in this game should be rock hard. It's just that, frankly, this game is not very hard at all, and for those of us who derive enjoyment from matching ourselves against a challenge and striving to perform well, we have one operation and one flashpoint. Surely that's not too much to ask? Discussing the loot drops vs effort required is one thing, but does the flashpoint really need a nerf? Is it really so bad to have one lone piece of 4-man content with a modicum of challenge?

Edited by Aurojiin
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All hail the profit someone who speaks sense :)

 

See im not as polite as you i just think there are 2 things that challenge at endgame after people have put in a certain amount of time and effort (even casuals will eventually put in the time to complete LI and be proud) .... so why just because some people cant complete it nerf it and bring it down so they can .....

 

Here is the real slap in the face for those that complain about this.... More people would quit if you got your way and today they nerf LI tommorrow they nerf EC because you cant do that either than will quit over challenging content.

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I have to agree with many posters here.

 

Lost Island is advertised as Tier 2 Flashpoints, where all other FP are advertised as Tier 1. I agree a non experienced player might be tricked and sign up with this flashpoint, to understand he can't complete it (the first boss, before the robot, should already be a clue).

 

However, as many other said before, this is the ONLY challenging flashpoint. There is a total of 11 HM and only 1 which requires a good group coordination. There are people in this game who are more talented or "hardcore" than others, and Bioware also need their money, and they also need to have somekind of challenge for them.

 

And please no, no gearchecks or whatever before you can use this LFG tool. Once again, the mind should prevail.

There are many players out there who can roll through the FP with very bad gear, the clues are how many groups started to 2-Man HM. Do you really think the people 2-manning HM need Tionese geared toon to 4-man them ? You know they don't.

 

Too many restrictions on a tool make it unusable.

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