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On Warzone Scoring and Rewards


DanielErickson

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Hey folks,

 

There's been a lot of discussion about the changes to the Warzone rewards system in Game Update 1.2 and the type of play style that it encourages. I wanted to help out a bit and point out a major change not all players may have noticed and share some of our plans.

 

First of all, rest assured we are keeping a close watch on the results of our reward changes to Warzones in 1.2 and we will continue to pull constant metrics to make sure they are going in the right direction as players get used to the new rules.

 

To refresh everyone's memories, one of the most important aspects of the new changes is that your team's performance inside the Warzone has a direct impact on a portion of the rewards you are given at the end of the Warzone. Even if your team is losing, the closer you can make the game the better your rewards will be - so don't give up hope! Giving up and letting the other team 'win faster' is now the worst possible route you can take to rewards.

 

Secondly, one of the things we have already identified to fix is to reduce the minimum amount of medals a player must receive to gain any reward at all. Currently that value is three (3), and we are going to reduce that to only needing one (1) medal to gain rewards. This should make sure we cover that all important backfill player while still protecting against the freeloaders.

 

As we move forward, we will continue to meet and discuss other possible changes based on the feedback here on the Forums as well as the data coming in from the live servers. As always, we appreciate your comments and want to hear from you.

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It is not just the commendation but extreme nerf to cash that hurts the most. Please don't force us PVP players to grind PVE dailies. Options are good for the game.

 

Pre 1.2 i wasn't swimming in cash but i used to get by just doing PVP. PVE players on other hand got coreilla dailies added to belsavis and ilum and we PVP players got nerf to credits..how is that even fair?

 

Even if i start getting cash rewards like i used to before 1.2 i can tolerate reduction in commendations, but getting zero cash in a losing match where i manage to get 3 medals despite of being rolled over is just very dis heartening. As of now it seems that credits awarded at end of match are not attached to medals at all.

Edited by Gorrdan
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Daniel,

 

If your polling of WZ results were accurate and reflective of real game PvP, you would not have gone forward with these changes. That is blindingly obvious.

 

The current system is causing a significant divergence between haves and have nots, and it gets worse with every game played. I tried to PvP all weekend and not once, not once, did our side (Republic) start the game with a full group (in games that I was present at start). There were numerous instances of the group getting full well after it was too late to do anything for a win.

 

So what does that mean? It means that the high population Imperial side continues to gain rewards at an alarmingly higher rate than the Republic. The gearing disparity gets bigger and they get stronger.

 

At least in 25% of the games I played, I got in during the final moments. Yes, you say you're going to address that, but you're not addressing the real issue. So what if my one medal allows me to get a token WZ Com, the Imps got the full amount and our side got squat in comparison...back to the real problem.

 

P.S.: If your data *is* accurate, then you need to explain to us why you think this current disparity (as expressed above) is considered by BW to be a good design.

Edited by Pedra
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You need to take a complete look and how you award commendations and valor.

 

I queue'd for a WZ last night and got into a losing Huttball where we were down 4-0 and the opposing team was just rolling us.

 

I'm at the shield/gate and now it's 5-0. I get out, fight for about 20 seconds, and then we lose.

 

I got 0 valor. I got 0 commendations.

 

That's fine if I don't get either, but I shouldn't be punished with my time being wasted for queue, loading, moving somewhere, waiting for a gate, fighting, just to get nothing from it except to requeu.

 

That needs to be addressed.

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Changing from 3 to 1 is a good move. However, agree with other poster that the lack of rewards in a losing effort is the major issue. I've gotten 10 plus medals and still been shocked at how few commendations (approx 40-50, so not enough to buy replacement medpacs and save for new gear) and how little credits ( 500-750, so 20-40 matches to buy 1 recruit piece if only doing pvp).

 

As a result, I believe people will still drop quickly from matches in a search for the 'winning' match, condemning the rest of us remaining players to a more certain loss.

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While the change from needing 3 to needing 1 to score is a good change and will mostly eliminate the problem of getting nothing from a Warzone, the problem with reward discrepancy will still lead to long-term detriment to the PvP Community.

 

For those that may not have seen it, we have been having very productive discussion in this thread.

 

-BRJ

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There were no wz leavers in 1.1.5, the 4 medal cap was working, the major valour levels were pretty nice(and it was necessary back then.), the comms and money and exp were normal, now it's all screwed up in a losing match, in a match you just joined. I just leave losses because it's not worth it, In fact I've unsubbed until you fix it. Levelling alts through pvp is dead as well which turns it into a pve game until max level, if I wanted that I could go play wow.
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Fresh 50ies will have no way to make it a close match, and vets who see they got just in a team with those will leave before the game even started (have that already seen on my server). Without a change in the rewards for the losing team, the situation will not become much better. Edited by Drudenfusz
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The new PVP system is flawed and creates a larger gap between players who have gear and those that do not. The pre 1.2 system for rewards was far superior it rewards participation in the event and it did not matter if you were winning or losing. Now players leave WZ's on my server the moment we start to lose just because they do not want the WZ com reduction and would rather wait in queue then spend 15 to 20 minutes in a match for such low rewards if you happen to be on the losing side. Edited by Painted
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The medal awards themselfs should be looked at.

 

In a few matches played I achived over 10 kills and 150K of damage in the match and that wasn't good enough for 3 medals. That can be frustrating by itself.

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I too am concerned by the absurd scaledown of rewards, especially for losing. If it takes a really long time to get gear if your faction is generally losing in PVP, that means one faction always has a gear advantage, and will win even MORE and FASTER because of GEAR... rather than through effort or skill.

 

I think the freedom to leave games is for the best. You seem to have this utterly insane idea that making losing less rewarding will encourage people to stay and try to win, but as any MMO veteran knows, that isn't even close to being the case. The more you nerf rewards for losing, the faster players (esp with alts) will leave games at the slightest inconvenience. If you put a lockout on people who leave early, it won't stop people, it just means people will alt-hop, or go do space missions or quests to wait out the timer. It only punishes people who don't spend a lot of time on alts.

 

People who want rewards (Valor, Exp, Commendations) are much more likely to stay and try to turn a game around if they know they're not going to be punished harshly for losing. When you cut those rewards harshly the way you have, that just means:

- I'm going to bail on the Warzone the instant the 1st door in Voidstar falls before the 1min remaining mark.

- I'm going to bail the instant a team caps 2/3 points ahead of mine in Novare/Alderaan.

- I'm going to bail the instant we fall down 0-1 in Huttball.

People who are just trying to get a little XP boost from the WZ daily will leave in all those situations as well.

 

If letting one side win quickly punishes all the players, this means that your system punishes the losers AND the winners... which is LESS incentive to stay in a losing game. The best way to prevent people from leaving games at the first sign of a disadvantage is to remove the pressure to win/lose the whole game. People will try to win/lose on their own merits because people are inherantly competitive. People will leave more if losing becomes a waste of time, as you have made it.

 

I think you've forgotten that people play for FUN, and when winning/losing becomes about mathematically milking the rewards at the fastest pace you can, people stop PVPing for fun and they leave when games become even slightly inconvenient. Please make the rewards for wins/losses more even... you're only hurting your own game.

 

Maybe since Valor is more for prestiege now than gear requirements, you can make the main difference in win/loss rewards be Valor, rather than XP and Commendations.

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I'm not good at PvP. I'm 40+ years old, and don't have the reflexes it takes to win consistently. I still enjoyed it though, even though I lost most of the time.

 

I was planning on leveling my scoundrel through PvP and class story quests because I didn't want to grind through all the PvE quests again.

 

However, the commendation/XP nerf makes that unworkable.

 

I just don't find spending 5-10 minutes waiting in a queue, then 10-20 minutes playing on a losing team for 0-reward enjoyable.

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Secondly, one of the things we have already identified to fix is to reduce the minimum amount of medals a player must receive to gain any reward at all. Currently that value is three (3), and we are going to reduce that to only needing one (1) medal to gain rewards. This should make sure we cover that all important backfill player while still protecting against the freeloaders.

 

.

 

Well done sir. I agree with the rest of the non-quoted stuff as well.

 

I do think part of the problem is exactly what you said. People have to get used to things. A lot of complaints about Novare Coast. It seems people don't realize they can exit in three different directions, for example, upon dying. I see SO many people just straight ahead, straight ahead, and get farmed by the team owning south middle.

 

Honestly, if I hadn't played the warzone in beta and done the same n00b thing for a few sessions, I'd be learning it now.

 

Friends: IF someone complains about being unable to get any medals, suggest they go out a differnet exit the next time they get zerg killed.

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I'm not good at PvP. I'm 40+ years old, and don't have the reflexes it takes to win consistently. I still enjoyed it though, even though I lost most of the time.

 

I was planning on leveling my scoundrel through PvP and class story quests because I didn't want to grind through all the PvE quests again.

 

However, the commendation/XP nerf makes that unworkable.

 

I just don't find spending 5-10 minutes waiting in a queue, then 10-20 minutes playing on a losing team for 0-reward enjoyable.

 

I'll turn 40 next year. I'm okay.

 

The reflexes take work. A lot. If you don't want to put the time in, then go back to your PvE. Honestly, I don't find questing grinding at all. I love how everyone wants challenging experiences, yet anything considered time consuming is called "grinding".

 

People are so freaking soft.

 

Trust me, quest leveling is not only FASTER then warzone leveling, it's about 3 times as profitable too. Probably more.

 

Mix them both in, and as you get beaten down by kids half your age, learn and get better. That's what I do. Also, pick up and train yourself on a gaming mouse like a Naga. Seriously, the kids are using them and it really helps.

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The medal awards themselfs should be looked at.

 

In a few matches played I achived over 10 kills and 150K of damage in the match and that wasn't good enough for 3 medals. That can be frustrating by itself.

 

Kill 10, do 75k damage, get one defense or attack medal. Not hard. Especially in Huttball and Voidstar, if you can't get 4 medals in those two every time, it's your fault- you just played a bad warzone.

 

Trust me, my first warzone on logging in is almost always terrible :)

Edited by islander
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I think the changes are fantastic, please keep up the great work. Despite what many posters are saying, the gear gap for a fresh 50 is SOOOO much better.

 

I leveled an assassin to 50 and was getting pummeled for a few days all while having to read immature players /emoting how bad i was.

 

When i hit 50 with my vanguard i was able to purchase the recruit gear and it made such huge difference from when my first toon hit lvl 50. Makes the pvp much more about the skill rather than the gear. If anyone hit level 50 before 1.2 they know what im saying.

 

The only way i can imagine someone not to hit 3 medals is if you join the game late, i understand you guys need to keep players so you will make it easier and drop it to 1.

 

I am not a fan of making things too easy for players not willing to work for it and enjoy the excitment of the challenge. I think the reward system based on your teams preforace is spot on.

 

Several games i have lost still earning 66 commendations and 2.5k credits. Sure if you lose badly and earn 300 credits for 20 minutes of playing isnt fun, but be better and win next time.

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The new PVP system is flawed and creates a larger gap between players who have gear and those that do not. The pre 1.2 system for rewards was far superior it rewards participation in the event and it did not matter if you were winning or losing. Now players leave WZ's on my server the moment we start to lose just because they do not want the WZ com reduction and would rather wait in queue then spend 15 to 20 minutes in a match for such low rewards if you happen to be on the losing side.

Bingo.

 

I'm guilty of doing it, and I'm entirely shameless about the fact that I am. A losing game usually makes it much harder to get medals as well (usually because your team is getting wrecked, and ANY medals for dps, tanking, healing, defense, etc are a LOT harder to get if you're constantly dying).

 

So losing gives me less rewards, makes it harder to get rewards, and is a frustrating and demoralizing experience on every level... please tell me how anyone is motivated to stay. 1.1.5 was the best reward system so far. It's much more fun to play, win or lose, if you don't have to worry about the entire thing giving you junk for rewards at the end.

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These changes have turned me into what i hated the most a quitter as well, if i get off to a slow start, or we are getting owned to sit through that only to get 0 anything is a waste of time and effort. I never thought id quit a game, and before 1.2 i took some solids loses before and stuck it out, because atleast you got something worth the pounding to stick it out.
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Please take into consideration the following.

If a player that is queued up for a WZ is only looking to gain Commendations.

 

I was in loosing matches with 3 or more Badges each time. At the end of the match I get between 20-27 Commendations.

In the winning match that I was in I scored in HB two times along with my normal playing of killing, protecting, CC as a Tank. I get 70 Commendations.

 

It seems more efficient to get my three medals for 27 Commendations and loosing a match quickly three times than to play well for 15 min and win one match.

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With the current system there are a few issues.

 

1. The "cost" of doing business.

-The MAXIMUM number of commendatiosns you can earn for a loss is 40.

(8 medals that count. Each medal is 5 comms)

-each WZ medpack and WZ expertise adrenal costs 20 comms.

-IF you the 40 comms that means you can replace 1 and only 1 of each.

-Some matches, ESPECIALLY the good, close, COMPETITIVE warzones it easy to use 4, 5, or ecen 6 OF EACH.

 

2. Starting with fewer than 8.

I have been on both sides of this.

-If you have 8 and they have 5 the 8 can cap pretty much all the objectives and lock them down so the opposing team can't do anything.

-Last night we had a match like this. On their team only 1 person got 4 medals. the rest had 1 or 0 because they were dead so fast there was nothing they could do to even try to get a medal.

-getting focus fired to death and taking damage do not earn medals.

-It also leads to #3

 

3. Matches with too few not ending + BONUS for fast win.

- Its the double whammy double negative kick you in the nuts while your already down effect.

-this is NOT competitive gameplay for anyone involved. and most important ITS NOT FUN.

 

 

here is how is NEEDS to work.

 

EVERYONE gets 50 comms just for showing up*

* you must earn 3 medals to qualify for the comms.

** IF you team starts short it reduced the number of medals needed to recieve the comms. (eg the match starts with 6 players. This is 2 less than the 8 for a full team. This menas that you will need to earn 1 medal to qualify for the rewards. (( 3medals - 2 team members short at the start of the match = 1 needed)))

 

The winning team recieves a 50 comm bonus.

 

Each medal counts a 5 comms at the end of the match (8 medals count max)

 

net end result

Losing team gets ~55-90

Winning team gets ~105-140

 

PS. reducing the WZ medkit and expert adrenal back to 10 is probably not a bad idea either.

Edited by EchoTwoOmega
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We are at WAR here!!!! Not the welfare office.

 

Says an Imp player from the leading faction.

 

We are NOT at war, dude! We are playing a game for which we pay money! If we leave the game, because it does not make fun anymore, YOU will have to leave, too, because then there is no game anymore at some point. We play "war", but we are all players who benefit from each other. The more you steamroll your enemies, the less enemies you will get. Then whom will you steamroll? Yourself? Please think before writing.

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The only way i can imagine someone not to hit 3 medals is if you join the game late, i understand you guys need to keep players so you will make it easier and drop it to 1.

 

 

1. Play a known healer

2. Have the other team know it.

3. Be marked.

4. Drop through gate and get focused by 3-4 dps every time.

5. End with almost no score, 1-2 medals, and 20 deaths and told how bad you are with the typical l2p statements.

 

Now when not focused down all the time, same healer can get 8-10 medals easy pre 1.2, and 14-15 post 1.2.

 

And now you know how some people can't get 3.

 

 

 

Loving all the changes though, really wish they would revert the credits back to how they were, dailies are quick and easy but limited time to play I would much rather pvp and spend time BSing w/ my guild than doing dailies just to afford a repair bill now.

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Those are nutty figures for commendation rewards, everyone would have battlemaster in a matter of days.

 

Would the weekly give 1,000? silly~

 

There needs to be challenge in pvp, should it be obtaining commendations or nail biting edge of the seat wzs that come down to the wire (even when you lose those the rewards arent bad)

 

PvP should not be used to "farm" cash imho, Spend the 20min and do your daily space missions for 10-20k

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