Well for a moment lets consider that Daala defects, she could smuggle a transport to the Emperor's Citadel on Byss - carrying a SE strike team.

 

Jaina could take on Krayt in the Throne Room, while Boba and co. perhaps set a nuclear bomb in a volatile location. Ensuring Krayt's death even if Jaina does not succeed.

 

However the SE Leadership may simply be cornered on Telos IV and destroyed.

 

If Daala defects (which I'm still doubting), I don't see the strike team working. I don't think Jaina could defeat Krayt on Byss.

 

Even so, Krayt has some very powerful Farsight abilities. It is likely that he could see such an attack coming.

If Daala defects (which I'm still doubting), I don't see the strike team working. I don't think Jaina could defeat Krayt on Byss.

 

Even so, Krayt has some very powerful Farsight abilities. It is likely that he could see such an attack coming.

Well, to be quite honest, despite Daala's imperial leanings, I'm not sure if she'd be prepared to kill Nek - which would be her task if sent to Base Delta Zeros (a perfect task for her due to her tendency to blow planets to bits) but I'm interested on how strong their 'love' actually was.

 

Also I doubt Krayt will see the attack coming, he may be able to see far into the future, but there is no evidence of him having visions of the immediate future. Indeed he never saw Cade Skywalker coming, which led to his eventual death.

Well, to be quite honest, despite Daala's imperial leanings, I'm not sure if she'd be prepared to kill Nek - which would be her task if sent to Base Delta Zeros (a perfect task for her due to her tendency to blow planets to bits) but I'm interested on how strong their 'love' actually was.

 

Also I doubt Krayt will see the attack coming, he may be able to see far into the future, but there is no evidence of him having visions of the immediate future. Indeed he never saw Cade Skywalker coming, which led to his eventual death.

 

Perhaps. I also don't see the SE winning through military might. It pretty much has to be 'kill Krayt.'

I have been reading up this 'affair' and I have not seen a single occasion where she would have put Nek before her extreme loyalties to the Empire.

 

She may have found it difficult yes, but her career was obviously her life.

 

Also we shouldn't mix up the Krayts we have here, Reborn Krayt could see shatterpoints everywhere, him seeing a coming ambush is actually pretty likely.

Edited August 3, 2013 by LadyKulvax

As the person who brought up Daala's possible defection, I feel responsible for seeing it through.

 

Would any one of these reasons constitute a defection? No. But together, they could potencially sway her.

 

 

• Her affair with Nek
  
• Her friendship with Boba Fett
  
• Her distaste for Sith ruling governments
  
• Her past defection to the Alliance
  
• Her past defection despite Pellaeon's loyalty
  
• Her lack of patriotism for the Krayt's Vision (NOTE: This is NOT the Empire)
  
• Her want to be treated as equally as her male peers (see: Mandalorians)
  
• Her sensitivity to those she cares about (Boba and Nek) being killed
  
• Her want for galactic peace
  
• Her want for political power, which she could attain in the SE to a further extent than the KV
  
• Her existing connection and interaction with the Mandalorian Protectors
  

 

Just to name a few.

Is there an example of that?

When Nek was in a coma she would repeatedly drop everything in a crisis when some news was available about him. She also has a history of defecting...

OK, I think I'm ready to bring this debate to a close. If anyone has final statements to make, make them. I'll try to reach a verdict as soon as possible. Likely tommorow.

OK, I think I'm ready to bring this debate to a close. If anyone has final statements to make, make them. I'll try to reach a verdict as soon as possible. Likely tommorow.

 

If I'm not next you're dead

Can we get warning, like tonight, if we're next? I need to be prepared/plan my day around this if I am.

Ok, Final Statement.

 

KV has the numbers for sure and SE has had an uphill battle for sure.

 

That said, when it comes down to it many times in Star Wars lore the little guy has won because of several key factors falling perfectly into place. I feel the key factors of quality, strategy, positioning, and trust fall (some barely) into SE's favor and the actions and personalities involved lend themselves to providing SE every opportunity to make these factors be winning factors.

 

As we've debated, SE's troops are 1v1 better than KV's. This combined with their proficiency and success at hit-and-run tactics as well as boarding/capture of ships and their penchant for assassination make my team deadly on the ground.

 

In space I'm completely outgunned and outnumbered, yet my fleet's unique weapons (especially missiles) combined with the lack of defense against such weapons on the KV side and the positioning my fleet can manage on the likely battlegrounds allows me to at the very least hold my own.

 

In terms of strategy, KV is hampered by having two strategists so at odds tactically. The one in charge (Pellaeon) will certainly be more cautious and will slow things down enough in the opening stages for SE to be ready and never get thrown on the back foot. Combine this with the chafing under Pellaeon that Daala will suffer as well as her dislike of Sith and her love of Nek she'll possibly defect. Should she do so, not only will KV's tactics suffer, but it'll force outcomes beneficial for the SE.

 

One of the previously mentioned outcomes is that Krayt will likely feel the need to be on the front lines (or close to it all comfy in his ship) and the SE just needs to isolate him, and heck they can nuke his ship and presto it is all over.

 

SE could also slip into KV territory (after taking the HK-probot platforms or having Daala slip them in) and have one or two Kandosii-type ships nuke Byss from orbit (really only takes one if I recall with about 12 nukes.)

 

Or, a strike team could be slipped aboard (with Daala's help) and the team could take Krayt down and as I've already fiercely debated, I feel Jaina is the perfect match to each of Krayt's powers and could take him down or he'd fall for the same thing that got him in lore when an HK-50 or Daala shoots him in the back.

 

Also, HK-50's and Mandos + Boba + sonic weapons + enclosed space = dead Talon. Talon just never was shown to be able to stop sonic weapons ever. Her saber can't stop it, force barrier can't stop it, lightning can't stop it... She might be able to kill a few while dazed but not an entire strike team gunning for her.

 

The base on Telos IV is insanely well guarded and immune to orbital bombardment so BDZ wont work, not to mention it is secret and on top of all this, it is the furthest of my planets away from KV. Really there is no reason for them to go after it first.

 

BDZ will not work on an asteroid field, orbital bombardment in space? That doesn't make sense, if it was any good you'd think the Imperials would have used it at Hoth or in any of the other asteroid belts that the Alliance used. Imperials where the masters of overkill.

 

Lemme see, did I miss something? If there are any questions about Jaina or Jaina vs Krayt see the first dozen pages as I believe it was thoroughly discussed there. Also, I firmly believe from my reading and analysis of Daala's character that she would side with Nek, especially if it meant betraying a Sith as Warren so handily pointed out.

 

Now that I have said my peace, Rayla may the force be with you and may the best faction win. Warren I loved your input and it was extremely helpful and yet concise. I will definitely seek to repay you in your faction's match. Sel, Tune I'm sorry you got stuck with a couple of mostly legacy era factions and couldn't participate greatly though I love impartial Tune, always asking the tough questions reminds me of Beni. Speaking of Beni I'm ever so grateful for your help at times, and commend you on you ability to be impartial and point out holes in everyone's factions/arguments. Aurbere, I understand you where repaying a debt and always enjoy your input regardless of which side. Debating you is a pleasure. And finally Rayla, I had a blast in this match. I learned a lot and hope I didn't come off poorly as an opponent. I hope you realize that when I make these arguments I die a little inside as I love much of your faction. All in all, a clean and fun debate and I look forward to the rest of the tournament!

 

PS: Beni the scenario for this better be epic regardless of who wins or I'll reach through my monitor and rip your still-beating heart out

Warren I loved your input and it was extremely helpful and yet concise.

 

Oh stop it, you! I'm blushing.

Oh stop it, you! I'm blushing.

Oh just you wait! I have at least your faction's entire match to keep this up

Edited August 4, 2013 by StarSquirrel

Good finish there squirl sorry I couldn't help debate all that much towards the end, nothing really came up question wise. Its a close match no matter how you slice it and I am anxious to see the out come but as far as I can see all the possible thoughts I could have had have been covered good job everyone.

 

I will say that ultimately I am leaning slightly in squirls favor at this point, while the KV have the numbers and are a powerful bunch I feel the SE has the perfect storm of abilities and personnel to pull out the win the way Squirl describes it.

Question: What does "Sol'yc" mean?

Can we get warning, like tonight, if we're next? I need to be prepared/plan my day around this if I am.

 

Ok, have they got their warnings?

Question: What does "Sol'yc" mean?

 

First. It is actually used in the title of the first Mandalore Te Sol'yc Mand'alor

First. It is actually used in the title of the first Mandalore Te Sol'yc Mand'alor

 

Oh, interesting. I figured it was something in Mando'a.

OK. Time for my final statements on this battle.

 

The KV has the clear space superiority, industrial superiority, and geographical superiority. The KV can take Esseles first, and then move out with two fleets (one for Daala and one for Paelleon). The KV will still have enough forces to defend Foerost from attack (unless it is a full-scale attack).

 

The two fleets can strike two worlds at once. With its unreachable position in the Deep Core, the KV can continuously pump out more and more mechanized soldiers and vehicles, while the SE is forced to recover from each attack (or they could just bombard them when available). Simply put, this will become a war of attrition, and the unassailable position of the KV gives them a major edge.

 

There's also the countless Probe Droids that the KV can send. Viper's serve as effective scouts, and Infiltrators can take over enemy defenses and ships.

 

I also don't believe that Daala will defect, but I can't really comment on that because I know little about her.

 

But even if she does defect, there is no guarantee that the SE can kill Krayt.

 

Simply put, I do not think the SE can kill Krayt before the KV can kill Tenel Ka.

 

But that's my opinion. Krayt is very difficult to kill. Destroying the ship that he's on is the only sure-fire way to kill him. The scenario where he is with Daala on her ship is impractical if we go with Paelleon being the lead military tactician.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Aurbere

Yeah, not much of a final statement, but I don't have a whole lot of time and this was the best I could do in a short time.

Question: What does "Sol'yc" mean?

I will be suitably impressed if it means 'epic win' or 'squirrel' in Mando'a.

I will be suitably impressed if it means 'epic win' or 'squirrel' in Mando'a.

 

Kandosii parji! Oya!

 

Literally- Awesome victory! Cheers!

 

Parji is actually the name of a Kandosii-type Dreadnought involved in the Mandalorian siege of Taris.

 

Sol'yc is actually First

Edited August 4, 2013 by StarSquirrel

Sol'yc is actually First

The First Empire. I like it, very nice.

Post of the Match:

That being said I still stand behind the fact that I am not a tactician by any stretch of the word

 

Its a fact people, Tunewalker is not a naval tactician. Did anyone see that coming? I didn't see that coming.

 

Yes, this is officially a thing now.

Post of the Match:

 

 

Its a fact people, Tunewalker is not a naval tactician. Did anyone see that coming? I didn't see that coming.

 

Yes, this is officially a thing now.

 

Trollesu and Troll moch topped it

Trollesu and Troll moch topped it

I should start giving out awards.