Yes you read it right, I think all classes need an agro-dump ability especially to be viable in ranked and regs.This agro-dump ability is as important as self heals or a breaker.

Here is why

Playing ranked on rep side (yes I am mad) all of the imperial classes consisted of classes that can agro-dump and exit combat and heal to full. All exhibited infinite hp pools during my ranked matches.

Maras using force camo and moving to 60m

Operatives vanish and heal to full in or out of combat

Sins heal to full out of combat

So my matches vs maras has a kind of synchronised orderly vanish out and heal to full taking it in turns to re-heal up, unlimited health pool, we all got trashed.

Vs operatives they simply healed up in combat and then vanished out healed to full reentered the fray and won

Sins did the same, sin tanks not only durable but can heal to full every 45s with utility.

Why am I salty, I will tell you why, cause if you main a jug/guardian vanguard/pt or slinger/sniper then you have no way of defending yourself vs an onslaught of 4 agro dropping self healing bursty dps. Players are now selected for on the basis of not being able to agro drop, so classes like guardians and jugs just get their defensives burned through in break neck speed.

So back to my initial point, being able to agro dump in PvP is the most powerful ability in the game. I was vs dueling a mara and oper and I kicked their butts and would have won very easily based on ability, but they vanished out and healed to full multiple times and I lost. My knowledge of the class and years of playing it foiled at the press of a button. Hardly a measure of ability. This is where I know for a fact that the devs dont play their own game at a high level, or if they do the preferred class of choice is an agro dump class.

I play ranked rarely because of the multiple reasons that get posted on the forums many times over, however I have not seen any identifying agro-dump abilities as the deciding factor in ranked matches, generally the side with most agro-dumping classes win. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED FOR THE GAME TO MOVE FORWARD. I hear you say why don't I play the same agro-dumping classes and so many do. Well I believe that a game with all the same classes being played is pointless. I may as well cancel my subscription and leave never to return.

If they have DoTs they won't be in stealth very long.

All classes have a gap closer, we all got them with 4.0

If they are burning through DCDs, you'll need to relearn your class. You're doing it wrong.

Example: you know they will whitebar you, save reflect for when that happens. Do not pop all your DCD at once.use roots and stuns more effectively

Some classes have abilities to debuff incoming healing. Use it

Cleanse is the most underated ability. Removed 2 dots, removed CC. When I'm on a class that has cleanse, it's usually on CD, just from the stuns alone. Keeping my team mobile and free of dots is just as important as healing or bursting

If they have DoTs they won't be in stealth very long.

 

All classes have a gap closer, we all got them with 4.0

 

If they are burning through DCDs, you'll need to relearn your class. You're doing it wrong.

Example: you know they will whitebar you, save reflect for when that happens. Do not pop all your DCD at once.use roots and stuns more effectively

 

Some classes have abilities to debuff incoming healing. Use it

 

 

Cleanse is the most underated ability. Removed 2 dots, removed CC. When I'm on a class that has cleanse, it's usually on CD, just from the stuns alone. Keeping my team mobile and free of dots is just as important as healing or bursting

Gap closing not relevant with this topic.

It matter not about the rotation of defensives vs 4 in a ranked match an agro dump is the only thing that saves a class.

The heaing debuff dont work if they vanish out and you cant find them

cleanse is irrelevant to this discussion I am talking about agro drops not dots.

Vanish out abilities in ranked must be a use once per round ability

Your problems in ranked are not the stealth out classes.. I hate ranked too but if your team is good those maras and opers would be dead without any hesitation.

Don't try to find excuses for losing a game. Yes it was because the mara could heal up 5 times.. and the oper healed up 7 times during the match ? the real question is: Why can they do that ? Your team is not effective enough. That's the reason.

Also when you face 2 or 3 maras there is so much predation going on.. that I can't literally hit one cause they move so fast.

You cannot give stealth to a jugg, sniper.. or whatever. These abilities are class specific.

The only thing you and me could agree on are the those f***ing self heals some classes got. And they shouldn't have them and the fact that DPS can guard. I saw a match where the dps sin was guarding the Jugg Tank. WHAT ?? Yes... and sadly it can be very effective.

Your problems in ranked are not the stealth out classes.. I hate ranked too but if your team is good those maras and opers would be dead without any hesitation.

 

 

Don't try to find excuses for losing a game. Yes it was because the mara could heal up 5 times.. and the oper healed up 7 times during the match ? the real question is: Why can they do that ? Your team is not effective enough. That's the reason.

 

Also when you face 2 or 3 maras there is so much predation going on.. that I can't literally hit one cause they move so fast.

 

You cannot give stealth to a jugg, sniper.. or whatever. These abilities are class specific.

 

The only thing you and me could agree on are the those f***ing self heals some classes got. And they shouldn't have them and the fact that DPS can guard. I saw a match where the dps sin was guarding the Jugg Tank. WHAT ?? Yes... and sadly it can be very effective.

If the maras and stealth classes break LoS and hide using the terrain then its damn near impossible to find them. So I disagree with that statement, The predation is a pain agreed, but the agro-dump is so over powered it really does define an entire match.

Your problems in ranked are not the stealth out classes.. I hate ranked too but if your team is good those maras and opers would be dead without any hesitation.

 

 

Don't try to find excuses for losing a game. Yes it was because the mara could heal up 5 times.. and the oper healed up 7 times during the match ? the real question is: Why can they do that ? Your team is not effective enough. That's the reason.

 

Also when you face 2 or 3 maras there is so much predation going on.. that I can't literally hit one cause they move so fast.

 

You cannot give stealth to a jugg, sniper.. or whatever. These abilities are class specific.

 

The only thing you and me could agree on are the those f***ing self heals some classes got. And they shouldn't have them and the fact that DPS can guard. I saw a match where the dps sin was guarding the Jugg Tank. WHAT ?? Yes... and sadly it can be very effective.

In addition I wrecked the enemies many times over, my skill is not in question, true the solo ranked pugs were on poor show, but, my point is still valid and highly relevant agro-dump abilities are the most powerful in game, they are the defining feature to a classes or advanced classes success in PvP.

but the agro-dump is so over powered it really does define an entire match.

So does the broken self heal of a merc and a sniper. Guess which class dominated S8 ? Them. Not sin or operative.

just for sure, try to play a bit with the class that have these "threat dump" like you say. See if you can do well with it. Test it on different match, with different setup.

If that's a yes, then it may be powerfull. If that's a no then I think it's more of a L2P issue.

Again, the thing to make note is that some of these ability require skill in order to be used effectively, as where some doesn't. I think you're putting ability that belongs to the first category into the second because you don't know how to handle these imo.

I completely agree that there could be some work to stealth optimisation. I personally won't see somebody that pop out of stealth until 5 sec have passed, because I usually play on a crap computer. I find it funny when a mara will have no problem seeing me just when I got out of stealth on my assassin, while I'm having issues to see him 5 seconds after his Force Camouflage ended.

Yes you read it right, I think all classes need an agro-dump ability especially to be viable in ranked and regs.This agro-dump ability is as important as self heals or a breaker.

 

Here is why

 

Playing ranked on rep side (yes I am mad) all of the imperial classes consisted of classes that can agro-dump and exit combat and heal to full. All exhibited infinite hp pools during my ranked matches.

 

Maras using force camo and moving to 60m

Operatives vanish and heal to full in or out of combat

Sins heal to full out of combat

 

So my matches vs maras has a kind of synchronised orderly vanish out and heal to full taking it in turns to re-heal up, unlimited health pool, we all got trashed.

Vs operatives they simply healed up in combat and then vanished out healed to full reentered the fray and won

Sins did the same, sin tanks not only durable but can heal to full every 45s with utility.

 

Why am I salty, I will tell you why, cause if you main a jug/guardian vanguard/pt or slinger/sniper then you have no way of defending yourself vs an onslaught of 4 agro dropping self healing bursty dps. Players are now selected for on the basis of not being able to agro drop, so classes like guardians and jugs just get their defensives burned through in break neck speed.

 

So back to my initial point, being able to agro dump in PvP is the most powerful ability in the game. I was vs dueling a mara and oper and I kicked their butts and would have won very easily based on ability, but they vanished out and healed to full multiple times and I lost. My knowledge of the class and years of playing it foiled at the press of a button. Hardly a measure of ability. This is where I know for a fact that the devs dont play their own game at a high level, or if they do the preferred class of choice is an agro dump class.

 

I play ranked rarely because of the multiple reasons that get posted on the forums many times over, however I have not seen any identifying agro-dump abilities as the deciding factor in ranked matches, generally the side with most agro-dumping classes win. THIS NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED FOR THE GAME TO MOVE FORWARD. I hear you say why don't I play the same agro-dumping classes and so many do. Well I believe that a game with all the same classes being played is pointless. I may as well cancel my subscription and leave never to return.

Lmao.

If the maras and stealth classes break LoS and hide using the terrain then its damn near impossible to find them. So I disagree with that statement, The predation is a pain agreed, but the agro-dump is so over powered it really does define an entire match.

Not always... Solo ranked is random and very situational.

the way maras and other hide and heal classes are handled depends on your team. I dont think you had any problem with them when you had a better team. They escaped to heal but by the time they came back their team was mostly smoking corpses.

In other situations, yes.. it can be a massive pain and match decisive, but as another poster said: Maras and melee in general weren't such a pain in S8.

Mercs and snipers were cancer and still are. How many times have you lost a match just because the enemy had mercs or more mercs and snipers ?

My opinion is that broken self heals are what kinda ruin ranked experience for players who don't play FOTM classes that posses such abilities.Almost dead Merc dps stuns me and stays in one place and starts to apply endless self heals WHAT ??

10% health merc just presses the magic button and is up to 90% health again while I am out of defenses and low health. really ??

Very fair isn't it ?

Let's just agree on the fact that the entire PVP scene is broken. Until PVP and PVE aren't separated in terms of how abilities work, it's hopeless to expect some miraculous change.

I play this game since 3.0 and PVP was never this broken as it is now.

Heck, I still remember the DvL mercs running around with 150k HP in ranked for a few months when 5.0 launched.

Let's just agree on the fact that the entire PVP scene is broken. Until PVP and PVE aren't separated in terms of how abilities work, it's hopeless to expect some miraculous change.

 

I play this game since 3.0 and PVP was never this broken as it is now.

 

Heck, I still remember the DvL mercs running around with 150k HP in ranked for a few months when 5.0 launched.

Well, I'd just say that the OP defensive and the dps nerf wasn't asked by PvE players. In fact, it wasn't asked at all. Players were asking for a slight boost for merc, which was brought in by Responsive Safeguard (really balanced defensive imo. One that resolve around skills and can be bypassed if you know your class). Then went the utility bullsh*t... You know the rest

But again, the class balance team messed up everything. The 40k heatseeker wasn't the issue for merc, both in PvE and PvP. The issue was the stupid defensives ability. Still, they nerfed their dps while leaving untouched the defensive ability.

I doubt separating PvE and PvP ability would do good, since the issue are the same for now.

This is where I know for a fact that not only the devs dont play their own game at a high level...

Fixed it for ya.

So back to my initial point, being able to agro dump in PvP is the most powerful ability in the game. I was vs dueling a mara and would have won very easily based on ability, but they vanished out and healed to full multiple times and I lost. My knowledge of the class and years of playing it foiled at the press of a button.

pretty much a summary of the original post. if your "years of playing" haven't taught you to look on a map and see where a marauder has run off to:

a) what have you been doing all those years?

b) you shouldn't be playing ranked

c) you really should learn to look at a map. i know it's hard when you're probably still looking down at your keyboard trying to find the button that makes you move forward, but just a little bit of practise will help

d) of course the problem isn't you it's always their fault, game is rigged boohoohoo

e) giving all classes a vanish wouldn't be game breaking but it would make the classes less interesting and it wouldn't cure stupid.

actually that's my summary. we need to cure stupid. hooray, your thread has saved the world!

Lmao.

LMAO why?

Cause if you are selected as an enemy teams first target only a agro dump will save you, PT/van guardians/jug die first.

pretty much a summary of the original post. if your "years of playing" haven't taught you to look on a map and see where a marauder has run off to:

a) what have you been doing all those years?

b) you shouldn't be playing ranked

c) you really should learn to look at a map. i know it's hard when you're probably still looking down at your keyboard trying to find the button that makes you move forward, but just a little bit of practise will help

d) of course the problem isn't you it's always their fault, game is rigged boohoohoo

e) giving all classes a vanish wouldn't be game breaking but it would make the classes less interesting and it wouldn't cure stupid.

 

actually that's my summary. we need to cure stupid. hooray, your thread has saved the world!

Are you saying that you can track stealthed targets? what a crock. My initial point remains true...bet you play oper/scoundrel or sin/shadow

So does the broken self heal of a merc and a sniper. Guess which class dominated S8 ? Them. Not sin or operative.

 

just for sure, try to play a bit with the class that have these "threat dump" like you say. See if you can do well with it. Test it on different match, with different setup.

If that's a yes, then it may be powerfull. If that's a no then I think it's more of a L2P issue.

 

Again, the thing to make note is that some of these ability require skill in order to be used effectively, as where some doesn't. I think you're putting ability that belongs to the first category into the second because you don't know how to handle these imo.

 

I completely agree that there could be some work to stealth optimisation. I personally won't see somebody that pop out of stealth until 5 sec have passed, because I usually play on a crap computer. I find it funny when a mara will have no problem seeing me just when I got out of stealth on my assassin, while I'm having issues to see him 5 seconds after his Force Camouflage ended.

people have moaned about all classes getting heals, this has just made snipers/slingers more viable in ranked not made it worse. mercs defensives are an agro-dump of sorts. sage barriers. Agro-dumps are not always stealth based abilities.

So Agro-dump is an ability that ceases attacks upon you, not all dumps are stealth.

Force barrier dumps agro

phasewalk is an agro dump of sorts

merc/mando defensives dumps agro

sin/shadow have stealth

oper/scoundrel has stealth

Sniper/slinger has balistic shield it can dump agro but not always. It can be a handicap to the play forcing them to remain in place till its expiration.

Mara/sent force camo

Jug/guardian not dump and a nerfed focused defense/enraged defense

Van/pt weak defensives kolto overload is inadequate

Fixed it for ya.

It is not fixed. bad sentence structure!

uhm why do you need 5 posts in a row?

Also - Why do people always complain about classes they've never touched or suck at?

uhm why do you need 5 posts in a row?

 

Also - Why do people always complain about classes they've never touched or suck at?

why do you think i replied 5 times in a row? seriously you haave to ask that?

It is not fixed. bad sentence structure!

You really are dense.

You really are dense.

Honestly your responses are not helpful and bring nothing to the thread. I understand that people have different ability levels, I understand people win trade and queue sync, and I understand that people use voice coms, and employ other methods to adjust the odds of winning more in their favor. . I am simply referring to the priority system in place where certain classes in ranked are picked first to be focused and defeated. There is a preference for classes that cannot remove themselves from a fight or stop themselves being focused. To say that one doesn't exist is just blatantly misleading to a valid point being made.

In addition I would add that a class with high mobility and/or an agro-dump are never picked first. Next time any of you doubters are in a ranked match and you suggest that you focus the operatives/scoundrels first just make a note of the responses you receive.

Next time any of you doubters are in a ranked match and you suggest that you focus the operatives/scoundrels first just make a note of the responses you receive.

Me : «focus operative healer first ?»

Team Members : «ok»

Operative Healer get globaled

was it the intended reaction ?

Don't get too upset about it. Just learn to deal with it. I'm the first to complain about class inbalance and still I keep playing a dps sin in 2017 even though it's really hard to last long in ranked against two merc/sniper/mara... things will go back in order someday... just hope that it won't take too long.

I can't see this as a big deal.

If your team is still up, then they are fighting 3v4 while you are off slowly healing up.

If it is down to 1v1 and your opponent drops agro, then you heal up as well. If you don't you fked up.