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ETA on Advanced Class change?


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It's only final, permanent and everlasting because that's how the game works at the moment, just as your choice of species used to be. If it stays that way, no biggie. If they change to allow AC change, equally no biggie.

 

Changing your species, names, outfits, colors has no effect on game play at all as It's purely visual cosmetics.. Just as all CM items. It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.

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To all the haters out there about AC changes, I have a question:

 

How the heck does allowing Advance class changes affect your game play, the game, or anything else?

 

I am asking this in all seriousness.

 

Sure I can re-roll another agent AC Sniper, because I am not a fan of the Operative DPS style. Power level through the grinds to 55 and look, I have a sniper! or I can pay BW some money to put forward to game development and hey Look! I have a sniper. Either way....I have a Sniper :eek:

 

Seriously, How players get their AC, does it really matter?????????!!!!!!!!

 

No, not really. :rolleyes:

 

I along with many others have already addressed the exact reason why something like this could hurt the game. I don't mean to sound rude but players have already answered that question in more ways than one and reiterating the same thing over will just cause us to go in circles. I understand you may have entered the thread late but the previous pages are still readily accessible.

 

I will humor you.. So you power level a sniper. how long would you wager that'd take to reach lvl 55 and fully geared out?

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true but you missing my point also.

 

let use consular as a better example.

 

 

a jedi shadow is STILL a consular, but with defensive abilities.

 

a jedi sage is STILL a consular, but with healing abilities.

 

 

 

both are still a consular,and have all the powers that all consular get from lvl 1-55.

 

the differences between the two is one specialize in healing and the other in tanking.

 

these advance classes arent new standalone classes, theyre just a subset of the what a consular could be.

 

if these subclasses were to be remove the both shadow and sage, both will still be a consular.

 

I am sorry but I disagree..

 

For one Sage is more than just healing. If you compare Sage to the class in WOW. Seer Sage is more like Priest in WoW, while Telekinetics Sage is Mage and Destruction Warlock and Balance Sage is affliction Warlock and Shadow Priest.

 

In contrast Shadow is more of Druid without healing. Kinetic Combat is guardian druid, Infiltration is Feral / Rogue and Balance is more of pre cata unholy DK.

 

Shadow and Sage are complete difference class. They aren't just sub class. Once a consular take a advance class they will no longer be consular and If you remove the advance class than they are no longer shadow or sage and back to square one as pre-advance class character.

 

It is Bioware's fault to confuse hell of players and only make 1 class story line. However even Sage and shadow share the same story line, that doesn't mean they are the same and they are design to be the same. In some way that is like calling pitcher and catcher the same, they are all just baseball player and they can switch place anytime they want. (Ok.. It maybe true for u12 baseball or armature game between friends. But you won't see it any where else.) It is also like calling book and post card the same because they are all made from paper.

 

I also wonder if people consider the impact it will cause to raiding guild. No matter if it loot council or DKP, serious progress raiding guild have track everyone's gear progression in order to continue to progress. Can you image guild member, officers or even guild leader jack up all the loots when they switch their advance class.

 

Do you think pug will free from it? There will people need (aka ninja) the gear they couldn't use yet only because they could switch their advance class tomorrow.

 

Like I said.. I would support advance class change before lv 20. I think that is enough time for some one decide whenever they really like the class or not. People do make mistake when they pick advance class and some have no idea how a class turn out. Myself made mistake on picking advance class in beta. I picked Shadow instead Sage. I end up level shadow to lv 22 and found out I really hate it and re-level a sage to 44 before beta close. (I have 3 lv 50 sentinel before it.)

 

However switch class at max should never happen. Some people claim it is their character and they should free to play how they see fit to. The only issue is this is MMO, the decision you make no longer just impact you.

 

Some people question why haven't money hungry EA do it. The answer is really simple because it impact the game more than just few dollars. Blizzard doesn't dare to do it with WOW and that is the company started all the paid service such paid name change, paid server transfer, paid faction change, paid sex change, paid character re-customize and even paid remote action house.

 

Wow isn't free from paid class change, I have see it on the forum that create by fans time to time. Their reasons are exactly the same as people want advance class change in SWTOR.

Edited by hchsiao
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It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.
Just playin devils advocate with this, but you can already change 2/3 of those with the click of a button. Just not the other 1/3. My commando can easily go from DPS to Heals at the click of a button already, so i fail to see how detrimental to gameplay it would be to be able to change to Tank at the expense of a boatload of cartel coins?

 

Personally, I'm for the ability to change advance classes at a heavy cost. It will bring in more revenue for the game, and will allow those who feel the desire, to change to something else. Yes you could roll an alt, but since the base class determines the story, it's often times tedious and annoying to sit through half or more of the same story because you decided you wanted to try your hand at the other side of the fence.

 

That being said, I don't really personally care enough one way or another to get all uber defensive about either side of the argument. Just wanted to clarify the quoted argument was relatively null and moot. As you can currently change your roll, you're just limited in most cases to only changing between two roles instead of all three. I know some ACs are DPS only, but they are an exception in this case, not a rule. Majority ACs have two of the three roles available to them. And can switch between the two roles with the Skill Mentor.

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Changing your species, names, outfits, colors has no effect on game play at all as It's purely visual cosmetics.. Just as all CM items. It's safe to say whether or not a player can heal, stealth, dps, range, melee or tank being changed at the click of a button does impact game play.

Again, so what? It's not like you would be able to change your class to an entirely new never-before-played class.

 

And it does not impact your game play.

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Shadow and Sage are complete difference class. They aren't just sub class. Once a consular take a advance class they will no longer be consular and If you remove the advance class than they are no longer shadow or sage and back to square one as pre-advance class character.

Actually, once a consular takes an advance class, they still continue to learn base Consular abilities all the way through the game. Just saying.

 

I also wonder if people consider the impact it will cause to raiding guild. No matter if it loot council or DKP, serious progress raiding guild have track everyone's gear progression in order to continue to progress. Can you image guild member, officers or even guild leader jack up all the loots when they switch their advance class.[/Quote]If it was a serious raiding guild, I would expect the senior members and those in charge to be well informed of changes. I mean hell, it says on your frame what AC you are. If the guild leader messes something up, it's because they're an idiot.

 

Do you think pug will free from it? There will people need (aka ninja) the gear they couldn't use yet only because they could switch their advance class tomorrow.[/Quote]These would be teh same people who are already ninja looting things in the name of their companions or alternate toons. The type of person who will ninja loot flashpoint or ops gear because they plan on changing roles, is the same person who's probably already doing it for the alt they have that they needed to roll up to play the role they can't change to.

 

Like I said.. I would support advance class change before lv 20. I think that is enough time for some one decide whenever they really like the class or not. People do make mistake when they pick advance class and some have no idea how a class turn out. Myself made mistake on picking advance class in beta. I picked Shadow instead Sage. I end up level shadow to lv 22 and found out I really hate it and re-level a sage to 44 before beta close. (I have 3 lv 50 sentinel before it.) [/Quote]I could agree with most of this, but i would make it Pre-31 because lets face it, before level 30-31, there's not much distinguishment (made up word) goin on between them all.
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So far I've only been given the impression that players want this implemented to avoid leveling or running through the same story line again. Bioware has given us xp boosts obtainable from both questing and CM along with a 5% boost for being in a guild. That's a 30% increase to XP on top of the space bar option. Yet that's still not good enough.

 

 

You want to buy your way into a different AC. There's those who has posted that they feel It would become Pay2win. There will also be players who will roar about having to pay to do this.Keep in mind this next point that I mention may not be your specific intention but players will abuse this feature

 

The fact that players can switch from dps to heal or dps to tank in WZ is bothersome to many (NOT ALL) now imagine if anyone can switch from tank to heals etc just before a WZ. That's perpetuating the issue. If a player learns a certain class is the most sought after for raids or pvp they will switch to said profession.

 

Imagine picking up a player for a WZ or raid and they haven't the slightest idea how to play their new found profession. We lose..that affects MY game play. We have to deal with enough bad players as Is not to add on players learning a class all over again. Even if the player is good..we now have twice as many smash monkeys as before and instantly no less.

 

That's not to mention all the other issues it will bring just to skip leveling. For longevity cutting out the grinding process in an MMO will likely shorten its lifespan.

 

 

These are not predictions...these are CONCERNS and possibilities. For what? So you won't have to level another character?

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Actually, once a consular takes an advance class, they still continue to learn base Consular abilities all the way through the game. Just saying.

 

True and False since I never train newer rank of double strike on my sage. However I do have to train newer rank of project on my shadow. (all 3 shadow spec use it.)

 

If it was a serious raiding guild, I would expect the senior members and those in charge to be well informed of changes. I mean hell, it says on your frame what AC you are. If the guild leader messes something up, it's because they're an idiot.

 

What if core members are extreme hardcore players with 100% attendance, know how to play every class. Officer / guild member decide to gear up those characters with range dps, healing, melee dps and tanking gear first? Rest of members whom are there to fill the raid can suck it and wait. Since core member can fulfill anything by simply switch, they don't necessary worry about piss off outsiders. They can even gear up core members faster during loot probation period of new recruits. Quite frankly I had a friend already did that in WOW as he has every class and he would play whatever class is short at raid day. The only difference is mains still receive loot ahead alts unless no one need that piece of gear.

 

No one will play Knight and Sith warrior as well since Consular or Smuggler or Trooper can fill any role in the holy trinity by switch around.

 

These would be teh same people who are already ninja looting things in the name of their companions or alternate toons. The type of person who will ninja loot flashpoint or ops gear because they plan on changing roles, is the same person who's probably already doing it for the alt they have that they needed to roll up to play the role they can't change to.

 

True however you don't give them even more reasons to do so. Besides players could sell all their sage gears after switch than decide to take Sage gear again once Dev buff Sage and nerf Shadow.

 

I could agree with most of this, but i would make it Pre-31 because lets face it, before level 30-31, there's not much distinguishment (made up word) goin on between them all.

 

I guess we can say before act 1 complete with level restriction. (since some may pvp their way to 55.) Or Dev could allow AC change at lv 55 however once character use the AC change that character will de-level back to lv 30s and force player to re-level through PVP, Space combat and chain run flashpoints. :D

Edited by hchsiao
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then give me an ability to transfer no longer obtainable unique items, legacy perks etc to my new character from my old one (no, they are not in collections interface, if they were, I wouldn't have that problem). personally I don't mind re rolling and playing the story again as much as I mind losing items and legacy perks that I unlocked on original character with AC I don't wish to play.

 

sometimes.. you think something is going to be fun and you are going to love it only to realize who wrong you were, but you cannot go back and make another choice.

 

its not about laziness (dear lord, I'm starting to seriously hate this word) - its about lost opportunities. (and this is also why I would prefer it to be a one time change. so that you think long and hard whether you actually want to make that change)

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There are a plethora of reasons/scenarios as to why this should not be included as opposed to one reason it should...which is Convenience.
If you're going to boil down one side to one word, you really should boil down the other side... there's one reason it shouldn't be included, people don't want it to be. Convenience is a rather blanket phrase that covers multiple reasons/scenarios, so I'll use "Distaste" as a blanket phrase for the multiple anti reasons/scenarios. Everything I've heard is "It shouldn't be included because I don't think there's a need for it."

 

Beyond convenience, there's Revenue... I'm pretty sure EAware isn't hurting at this point, but extra revenue is never a bad thing. Revenue also counters a lot of the anti-arguments. With a hefty CC cost, a lot of the fears and concerns could be drastically lessened as the likelihood of everyone and their mother changing ACs every day or week at a real world cost $20 or more is lessened.

 

So far, I think both sides of the argument have about an equal valid list of pros/cons and that's probably why these threads propagate so far. For every good point for or against, there's an equal counter.

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. (and this is also why I would prefer it to be a one time change. so that you think long and hard whether you actually want to make that change)

 

This! Thank you , This I have nothing against. this would bring a lot of the concerns to a bare minimum

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Offering an advanced class change service would be a lucrative back-end preparation for entirely new advanced classes that are monetized. New classes would only come in the form of new advanced classes, so this could be a way of selling them individually, along with many other features that could be added as part of a larger paid content addition. This would let free players buy specific features of the expansion that interest them, who would otherwise be turned off at the larger up front cost of an expansion pack.

 

As long as reasonable restrictions are put in place, I don't personally mind. I do think that this would be the easier alternative. The other one would be going back to the drawing board with advanced classes and enabling you to choose your advanced class at character creation (class stories continuing to be referred to as Sith Warrior, Smuggler, ect.) This would remove the confusing and redundant base class system.

 

It *is* a problem with terminology that confuses people, especially in a market dominated by a certain mmo.

Edited by Marb
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If you're going to boil down one side to one word, you really should boil down the other side... there's one reason it shouldn't be included, people don't want it to be. Convenience is a rather blanket phrase that covers multiple reasons/scenarios, so I'll use "Distaste" as a blanket phrase for the multiple anti reasons/scenarios. Everything I've heard is "It shouldn't be included because I don't think there's a need for it."

 

Beyond convenience, there's Revenue... I'm pretty sure EAware isn't hurting at this point, but extra revenue is never a bad thing. Revenue also counters a lot of the anti-arguments. With a hefty CC cost, a lot of the fears and concerns could be drastically lessened as the likelihood of everyone and their mother changing ACs every day or week at a real world cost $20 or more is lessened.

 

So far, I think both sides of the argument have about an equal valid list of pros/cons and that's probably why these threads propagate so far. For every good point for or against, there's an equal counter.

 

 

I say convenience because so far the only reason I've seen people in this thread advocate it - is for just that, convenience. Sure they have many counter arguments to our concerns but what other reason do they want it implemented in the first place? To arbitrarily dismiss all the concerns with counter arguments doesn't make them any less valid concerns. They are still possibilities none the less.

 

In regards to revenue, that would work If the poster above suggestion was taken into account. A one time change and at a hefty cost. Then again players would still want more or complain there's a cost to begin with. but if allowed to do so multiple times you can't say you know the RL income of players or the amount of unspent CC or how many in game credits one has available to purchase from the GTN. So it'd have to be a VERY hefty price.

 

I still think it would hurt them overall. Any drastic option to remove/reduce the time spent leveling an alt, is months lost of playtime from that subscriber.

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I don't want to see any player leave, I've seen what changes like this has done to an MMO (SWG) and it wasn't pretty. Not everyone is going to be happy. That said appeasing one side of the player base (if it's even that) by granting instant gratification would simply stir the hornets nest. It opens up too many unwanted possibilities to solve one.
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I say convenience because so far the only reason I've seen people in this thread advocate it - is for just that, convenience. Sure they have many counter arguments to our concerns but what other reason do they want it implemented in the first place? To arbitrarily dismiss all the concerns with counter arguments doesn't make them any less valid concerns. They are still possibilities none the less.
And I say "distaste" because the only reason I've seen people in this thread crusade against it, is because they don't like the idea themselves. Sure, they have many arguments and concerns but what other reason don't they want it implemented? And, to answer your question... a few posts up someone brought up the point of missed opportunities. It's more than a leveling convenience, it's a loss of gear (earned and or bought and sometimes no longer available at all). But I'm sure this could be blanketed into "convenience" like every other reason mentioned has been.

 

In regards to revenue, that would work If the poster above suggestion was taken into account. A one time change and at a hefty cost. Then again players would still want more or complain there's a cost to begin with. but if allowed to do so multiple times you can't say you know the RL income of players or the amount of unspent CC or how many in game credits one has available to purchase from the GTN. So it'd have to be a VERY hefty price.
I don't completely agree with this. Either make it one time free, or make it expensive repeatable. All you are doing by saying one time expensive is coming up with a clever way to make sure no one does it, yet still making them feel like they "won" because the option is *technically* there. If I was to agree to a plan of action, I would personally side with a one time free.

 

I still think it would hurt them overall. Any drastic option to remove/reduce the time spent leveling an alt, is months lost of playtime from that subscriber.
You are fully allowed to have this opinion. And to vocalize it. But it is still just that, an opinion. Neither you nor I have any empirical evidence how it will affect the game. You say it will hurt the game due to lost playtime. I say they lose my sub when I tire of my Sage and don't want to waste the time or money playing the exact same content again to level a Shadow (Extreme example to illustrate point... not a personal example but an example of a potential persons situation). It's really all anecdotal though.
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And I say "distaste" because the only reason I've seen people in this thread crusade against it, is because they don't like the idea themselves. Sure, they have many arguments and concerns but what other reason don't they want it implemented? And, to answer your question... a few posts up someone brought up the point of missed opportunities. It's more than a leveling convenience, it's a loss of gear (earned and or bought and sometimes no longer available at all). But I'm sure this could be blanketed into "convenience" like every other reason mentioned has been. .

 

It's what It boils down to. You don't want to have to level another class based of your previous decision to roll said profession because you feel It no longer suits you. The reason you gave is still just that. It's not the idea itself - its the Unnecessary problems that could stem in result of it.

 

I don't completely agree with this. Either make it one time free, or make it expensive repeatable. All you are doing by saying one time expensive is coming up with a clever way to make sure no one does it, yet still making them feel like they "won" because the option is *technically* there. If I was to agree to a plan of action, I would personally side with a one time free.

 

You are fully allowed to have this opinion. And to vocalize it. But it is still just that, an opinion. Neither you nor I have any empirical evidence how it will affect the game. You say it will hurt the game due to lost playtime. I say they lose my sub when I tire of my Sage and don't want to waste the time or money playing the exact same content again to level a Shadow (Extreme example to illustrate point... not a personal example but an example of a potential persons situation). It's really all anecdotal though.

 

Of course I am as you are entitled to yours. It has actually happened with a game called SWG that implemented similar changes that caused a mass exodus of players. It's been publicized.The players in your example would quit either way. If the Idea of grinding in an MMO is distasteful because they cant avoid leveling another character or reacquiring gear. Maybe MMO's aren't for them & better suited for console gaming.

 

After only 10 levels the players were made fully aware that It's a one time deal and yet they continued to level that toon and gear him out. Why? and why the sudden change of preference over and over? This is where players are concerned with the whole Pay2Win Scenario.

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Of course I am as you are entitled to yours. It has actually happened with a game called SWG that implemented similar changes that caused a mass exodus of players.[/Quote]There were many things responsible for the doom of SWG (moment of silence in memory of...) beyond just expanding on a system that was already there. Changing advance classes does nothing more than open up the third (and in limited cases second) trinity role to a player. As I stated previously, it's a system that's already in place in limited fashion with the skill mentor. Hell it's even free and unlimited for subs and can be done on the spot with a cheap credit cost (not even CC).

 

After only 10 levels the players were made fully aware that It's a one time deal and yet they continued to level that toon and gear him out. Why? and why the sudden change of preference over and over? This is where players are concerned with the whole Pay2Win Scenario.
The first part of that is rather valid. The game does make you aware it's a one time choice and should be respected. As for the "sudden change in preference over and over?", who said anything about over and over. As for the change in preference late in a characters career there could be numerous reasons, some of which have already been brought up.

 

The whole game changes at end game. I could think I'm a great tank through my leveling life, yet find out when it comes to SM Ops and HM FPs and Ops I really drop the ball. In this case, a player might consider changing to heals or dps. I don't find it detrimental to allow this player this choice. I'll concede that If they find they fail at everything, then they should really consider playing a different game all together.

 

Another example. Let's say I'm in a fairly tight knit guild. We have a pretty solid core group, we're all familiar with each other and friends. Something comes up in one members life that keeps them from playing, and they happened to be our go-to 8man tank. Well gee, if only I could switch from Sage/Commando to Assassin/Vanguard to help fill that role in the guild without spending 1-3 months grinding all the way back up there with an alt. Sure we could get someone else in, but we'd have to gear them up and teach them the ropes, which also takes time that we could have been spending doing appropriate content.

 

Another example, boredom. Let's say I've been rocking a Sage for the last 8 months. In that time I've familiarized myself with healing and dps... but I've always been intrigued by the stealthy nimble tank abilities of a Shadow. Some, I'm sure, would rather go find a different game that's new entertainment, than waste another 1-3 leveling through the exact same content.

 

Those are just a few examples of reasons people could have for wanting to change advance classes and opening up that third trinity role option. I know they all have valid counter arguments, along with a whole new list of reasons it's a bad idea. At the end of the day though, the devs will just have to look at the list of pros vs the list of cons (new cons, none of this "it will lead to ninja looters/need rollers" and "it will lead to bad players"... news flash, those existed in abundance since day 1, they're not new news) and come to their own conclusions.

 

PS I probably sound like some stubborn old goat bickering with you, but I've taken everything you've said to heart and have conceded many valid concerns. At the end of the day I don't care much if it's there or not, the game did fine without it, it will continue to do fine if it's not added... I just always feel compelled to try and open the worlds eyes up to more viewpoints than just their own. tl;dr These have been some engaging and enlightening back and forths we've had. Thanks.

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sorry but you are asking for the exact same thing as someone in wow wanting to turn their rogue into a priest. It is a stupid idea for that game yet you want it in this one? Sorry but the skill set needed to play a sorc or sage in this game is 100% different then a shadow or assassin.

 

If they do this is not different then pay2win and they will lose more subber then it will grant them.. EA is VERY stupid about many thing, but if it has the possiblity to lose them money they will certainly not do it.

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Instead of just saying "No, not going to happen ever" or things like "the only reason people want to do this....." why don't you guys actually try sharing your concerns instead.

 

I for one am curious as to why this would be such a seriously bad thing to add to the game. I mean it looks like it's coming...just like F2P, market, moddable gear, adaptable gear, appearance kiosk...dyes....all of the things that folks were saying the same things about.

 

That doesn't mean that your concerns are not important or reputable. I just want to know what they are.

 

All of what you mention apart from f2p is only apparence. You don't get any form of benefit from those.

Concerns about AC swap and the reasons I would instantly quit the game and never look back if it was implemented:

 

1 - People who don't know their class.

I suppose this is rather self explanatory, but I can add that people don't know how to play now, when being allowed to just get handed a char to them that they never played before it's going to be chaos.

 

2 - FotM

This will affect the game in some way. Not major which we have seen in other posts in this thread but enough for me to want to quit.

 

3 - Intelligent players and BW standing up for what they have said to us

It's **CLEARLY** stated when you choose that this is a permanent choice and you will not be able to change. If you actually back down on that they will give in to stupid people who cannot read and accept what they have read.

The other part of this is BW actually living up to the "permanent" choice that they claim that it is.

 

4 - Lazy players

I hate people wanted stuff handed to them in MMO. I want *much* harder MMO with *much* more work involved to get somewhere. I come from WoW 1.x where you had no way of summoning people to an instance, no group finder and no world chat-lines. You HAD TO travel to an area, all of you, to enter an instance. That's fun! That puts demands on players. This "I wanna enter an instance give it to me now at once without having to lift a finger" attitude is just worthless in my opinion and this would be the final straw.

 

5 - Egoism

I have 14 chars at 50+, 12 of them is 55. I have leveled up some of those chars ONLY cause you cannot change AC and I would feel cheated if someone else could do it "just like that".

Yes, this is the least important part and the part that I am least proud of. But I have to face reality and admit that this is part of the reason I would quit if they implemented it.

I wish this reason was not on the list, but unfortunately, the human race has egoism built into it at such a basic level that this actually is a reason, no matter how much I hate the fact.

 

The thing I could accept is 500 CC as a switch cost with 24 h cooldown and a maximum level of 20 on the char that does it.

Then you can swap if you make a mistake on low level, but never on higher level - never ever. I would stop playing the game 2 seconds after this was announced and never look back.

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... Well gee, if only I could switch from Sage/Commando to Assassin/Vanguard to help fill that role in the guild without spending 1-3 months grinding all the way back up there with an alt.

 

Weeks. Not months. Leveling a char from 1 to 55 takes 1-3 weeks.

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Weeks. Not months. Leveling a char from 1 to 55 takes 1-3 weeks.
Maybe for you. But I guess all of us can't measure up to your amazing Godlike ability. So please pardon the mortals who humbly make requests on their own behalf.
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Maybe for you. But I guess all of us can't measure up to your amazing Godlike ability. So please pardon the mortals who humbly make requests on their own behalf.

 

LOL.

The game is far too easy.

Do a couple of flashpoints on a planet and throw in some PvP and you'll be out-levelling the content almost from the second planet onwards.

This means that you only need to complete class quests before you move on.

Even the slowest player couldn't take months to take a character to 55.

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Oh and in response to the original suggestion.

They have already allowed species changes which sent me close to hitting the "cancel subscription" button. An advance class change certainly would have me reaching for it.

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