I think the whole 'changing pronouns is bad writing' thing is just an excuse to give us nothing at all. Its basicly what the ME2 fellow said when that whole controversy came up. Why can't we romance Miranda, Jack, and Tali as FemShep? The guy basicly said 'well, we wanted to include them, but we really wanted to do it right, not just make FemShep's romance a copy of MaleShep's romance, we really wanted it to be unique and special'. We know how sincere he was by the fact that not only did he give us nothing at all instead, but it was the exact same deal in ME3, no FemShep romances for any of those characters once again (they threw in a couple minor non-teammate romances into ME3, which was better than nothing, but not by much). They really made those romances special, they're the only ones you have to have a mod to play. That's not a good kind of special . Of course it was just an excuse to give us nothing, and that's what they're doing again here.

 

The simple reality is that the romance is the romance, and changing the pronouns in the romance storylines is exactly the same as changing the pronouns in any other storyline in the game, doing it isn't bad writing, its 'not' doing it that is bad writing. I just want to be able to enjoy the same romances everybody who plays as a male character can, I don't really care about 'unique' or 'special' dialogue just for my gender, heck you barely get any special dialogue based on your species, that's actually something I'd like to see a little more of. I hope that with all the pressure they're getting they'll finally do the right thing, don't just throw us a tiny little bone like ME3 did with the non-teammate 'romance' stuff, make all the female characters, who can already be romanced, be romancable for all of us. All they need to add is the voicework for the main character (which may already be done for all we know, and they simply chose not to put it in the game), obviously the character being romanced already has their part of the romance fully voiced. I would much MUCH rather have them do it that way, than make some kind of token lesbian character that I may or may not even like. Even if I did end up liking the token new character the best, ten or so different options sure beats just one . So yes, by all means add new female characters, the more the better, and make them available to everybody, but don't forget to make the ones that are already in the game available to everyone as well. Then we'll all be winners.

Yeah, irrespective of their view of swapping pronouns and removing gender flags you'd think they'd at least agree that doing pronoun swaps wouldn't be AS bad writing as doing nothing at all.

If you want some really optimistic thinking, maybe they really are spending a lot of time and thought into making sure they make SGR's really believable and appealing to as many people as possible. I know, wishful thinking, right.

 

Not necessarily unrealistic thinking, and certainly positive (which is valuable in and of itself). But I suspect they just can't afford to do the companion content yet and don't want to admit it.

Not necessarily unrealistic thinking, and certainly positive (which is valuable in and of itself). But I suspect they just can't afford to do the companion content yet and don't want to admit it.

 

Yeah, probably. But, at least the writers have had a lot of time to think about it......haha

It is I was perhaps being overly complete in my wording I know people who get quite worked up over the issue mostly in that they jump to an assumption of it means that one partner is the "girl/guy" in a gay/lesbian relationship. Mostly because despite this very rarely being the case it is constantly put forward in media.

 

That's a very good and salient point. I must admit I haven't felt a 'butch-twink' vibe from any of the romances I've seen (though I must stress I've seen very few - and I apologise in advance if my use of 'butch-twink' as a term offends anyone) but that's definitely something they'd need to watch out for.

 

I actually started romancing Vette recently, and while she seems overwhelmed at the idea it seems more to do with the PC being a powerful terrifying Sith Lord than the PC being male or female. Vette's kind of forced into a semi-submissive role (or at least a hesitant role) right from word go.

 

Sexuality doesn't have to have alot to do with personality but it does have a a fair amount to do with how you interact romantically. As for none of the assorted traits mattering that is only partially true I mean if you go around betraying the empire Raina Temple isn't going to hop in bed with you.

 

Yes, but for the most part, how much rep do you lose with her? -1. For betraying the Empire she holds dear that's a very, very mild reaction. And playing nice with her at all other times will almost certainly result in bed-time with her.

 

Your actions do have effects on companion affection and reaction. Now mechanically that is all wiped out by nice gifts so all romanceable companions are basically gold diggers but thats more an unfortunate result of mechanics than anything else. I mean if sexuality isn't an issue why does

suggesting a threesome with Risha and Akavi get my smuggler nearly killed twice?

 

I agree that it does make a difference. Absolutely. I just find it unrealistic that of all the things that could block you from getting in a relationship with someone, gender is the only absolute (and the only exception tot hat seems to be LS Jaesa). Doesn't matter if you're a different shape, even. If there were more blocks I wouldn't find it so bizarre, I'm sure.

 

Also, I haven't played my Smuggler far enough to find that point. It sounds hilarious.

 

I think DA actually handled this pretty well. All the companions felt more like they were bi then hero-sexual. ME has had issues with that at times though. Like DA1+2 it seemed like from the get go these characters were Bisexual. In ME other than Liara not so much. It's subtle but it turned me off from pursuing those relationships.

 

I thought romances in Dragon Age (both Origins and 2) were very well done indeed. Mass Effect... Um, not so much. I really do like the mini-romances with Traynor and Cortez, they're very sweet, but I also think they're probably... underdeveloped (certainly they're underdeveloped compared to the companion romances).

 

Now, all the above said, I have no issue with them not taking a herosexual route. I do think the herosexual route is unfairly demonised (DA2 is proof that it can be done well) but I've no issue at all with them defining who's gay, who's straight and who's bi - if it's written well. Both routes have significant drawbacks and pitfalls (and as we've all gathered, not getting SGRAs at all is a big potential pitfall of the second route).

<very un-Jedi like words here that would make my DS sorc blush>

 

<big Jedi hugs to the thread>

 

I'm trying this again, since I don't see how this is off-topic. Glad I save my posts. Same with some of the other conversations from earlier. I put this back up in the General forums too. Since not everyone reads this thread or the other one, I'll put this here. I'd recommend to everyone to start saving their posts.

 

 

Re-edited this to take out some of the more aggressive lines.

 

They haven't said that they were working on it publicly since March. Please show me where publicly since March they have directly told the players it's coming.

 

Here's a same gender romance in from the books, with Goran Beviin, who's husband was Medrit Vasur. Goran was first featured in the e-book Boba Fett: A Practical Man. The two of them were later fully realized in the book Sacrifice, both of which were by created by author Karen Traviss. They are officially recognized as canon by Lucasarts.

 

 

Let me try this.

 

I don't know how to make this anymore clear. BW-Austin made a promise to the players for this content repeatedly. And I'm not going to quibble over the word, "promise," again. That just reminds me of trying to define what, "is" is.

 

We do not want this going ahead of bug fixes. I have no idea where that perception comes from. I would like the 32-bit crashing bug and some of the /stuck bugs fixed first. That Win 32-mem leak truly is game breaking. Or the fact companions still might not follow you onto and off of an elevator.

 

I personally don't want this ahead of loosening some of the F2P restrictions. Some of those are really really silly imho, and some of my friends in game have had more trouble than they need.

 

Please don't talk about what comes first. Many other things have come first. Personally, I could give a flying flip about the new Warzones or new gear sets. This also includes the Black Hole, EV, Section X (not a big fan of that place,) and literally everything else that came before this point.

 

You realize that if BW-Austin had talked about this months ago, or even a few weeks ago at the Livestream, none of this would have happened, right? Even a simple, "Hey, it's still coming!" Or, "Hey, sorry, it had to be tossed." Not completely ignored. You do realize that most of us could live with a "Nope, sorry, we can't do it?"

 

The only reason why I went to GLAAD is that I found out they had helped us before. What we were supposed to do, just sit in the forums and do nothing about it? After using every means available to contact BW? I do mean every resource. We just didn't call the front office, but we literally did everything else.

 

I would have never dreamed that GLAAD took an interested in LGBT content in games. When I did, you bet I wrote them. I am no longer afraid or that bothered by trolls. Many of you guys are strangers in the internet; I really don't care if you feel like I'm wasting my time. I do care about getting an answer that they've had more than enough time to prepare.

 

So, 15 months of no implementation and 9 months without recognition may be peachy keen to some. It isn't to me and apparently not a few others. The Livestream being ignored was the final straw for some.

Perhaps BW-Austin can see the kinds of passion (good and bad) it brings out in people. Maybe they'll realize that they just can't keep ignoring one section of the player base while celebrating it at the same time. And finally give us all an answer.

EA's stance on LGBT content in games and in the community.

 

They do this and some wonder why we stepped up our emailing? Look at the headline. No, LGBT community and their allies did not write this. EA gave the interview all by themselves. We were not going to take silence as any answer after that article.

"There have been no questions, comments or concerns raised from our investors with regards to support for LGBT initiatives in the community or having LGBT characters in our games," Maseda said, casting a net beyond DOMA and into the company's decisions to celebrate Pride Month and allow gay player characters in Star Wars: The Old Republic. "Essentially, it's been a non-issue from an investor perspective."

 

You do realize that the posters had to go and correct that article, right? Look at the correction notice at the bottom of the article. So yeah, we started going to GLAAD as well as news sites (GLAAD was by far not the only one written about this,) after they started talking about adding SGR characters, but not address the player base. I don't think anyone would want to take a third part site for an answer. So if they want to talk about how much they love the LGBT community and then ignore us, we are going to step up.

 

All of this could have been resolved with a simple, clear, honest answer.

Edited December 11, 2012 by natashina

I just cancelled my subscription. I told them the reason is lack of information about SGR as promised.

 

I also mentioned I will re-subcribe when SGR is implemented.

If they can't see it, it's not a problem.

More or less...methinks some one higher up is very angry that we're speaking up about this.

 

I've been encouraging real life friends of mine to write GLAAD. Two of so have done it already. They don't play ToR, but they do agree with our stances. Talking about the deleted Tweet really was what got their attention.

 

Please don't give up guys! Keep writing to GLAAD and don't forget that they have responded to several of us. Facebook really seems to be the best way of getting a quick response, so keep doing that. Hopefully we'll hear more soon. At least GLAAD and games industry International respect us enough to respond.

Edited December 11, 2012 by natashina

The thread in General is re-opened. After some of comments in there, I can't say I blame them too much.

 

That's why I stepped up to this next level. I was tired of seeing the LGBT community taken for granted. I was tired of seeing great supporters get burnt out with a case of the "F' it alls." I was very tired of the articles that talk a good game about inclusion, yet won't even give the player base a decent clear answer.

 

I'm going to throw this in. Tell your friends that might care, tell your guildies.

 

https://www.facebook.com/GLAAD

 

That's the one I'd recommend first. It took me less than 24 hrs to get an answer and other posters have heard from them as well. They are looking into it. The more that people write in, the more that BW will be forced to give a real answer.

 

http://www.glaad.org/contact

 

For email goodness to GLAAD

 

brenden.sinclair@gamesindustry.biz

 

This is from the site that had the now rather infamous pro-LGBT article.

 

They published that on October 15th interviewing EA and Zynga about their feelings about LGTB content. The posters here had to correct it. See the correction statement at the bottom of the article.

 

Here's the article, for anyone curious.

 

From the horse's mouth.

 

If anyone has any questions about SGRs, the rating board, examples of LGBT couples in the Star Wars EU, ect, please take a look at my signature. That's where my rapid fire answers to some of the polite and not-so-polite questions come from.

 

Edit: A few hours after I put up this post, I wrote to alternet.org to see if they would pursue this story. I'll make sure to let everyone know if I hear back from them.

Edited December 11, 2012 by natashina

 

I just wanted to say thank you. To all of you. This means a lot to see the community band together like this. Thank you all for trying not to feed the trolls and trying to remain level headed. I want to try to give you guys a big fat SGR public answer for the holidays. I don't know if I can, but you guys make me want to try harder.

 

So thanks!

 

I'll keep on writing, you guys keep writing and try to keep your heads up. Also, please don't bash on the mods or the devs. I feel someone in a suit has decided to take this route. The longer that they remain quiet at this point, the worse they are going to look. It's frustrating but for right now, that isn't a bad thing. We've forced them to think and try to address the player base.

 

So please, remember that the moderators are at the mercy of their bosses, and that the developers are as well. The person/people calling all the shots on this from a PR standpoint are probably being very scrutinized by their peers and bosses as we speak.

 

If you have the fortitude, stick with this! I'm going to keep working for an answer so long as I have the stamina for it.

 

Try to have a good eve everyone.

 

“The most important kind of freedom is to be what you really are. You trade in your reality for a role. You trade in your sense for an act. You give up your ability to feel, and in exchange, put on a mask. There can't be any large-scale revolution until there's a personal revolution, on an individual level. It's got to happen inside first.”--Jim Morrison

Edited December 11, 2012 by natashina

I'm hoping that when Bioware puts them into effect that Vette is on the list..so that my Sith Warrior can romance her ^^

I'm hoping that when Bioware puts them into effect that Vette is on the list..so that my Sith Warrior can romance her ^^

 

Same here! They would be adorable together.

Hello everyone; we've been having to remove a large number of posts from this thread for being off-topic. We ask that you please keep discussions to SGRA as it directly relates to SWTOR - asking for clarification, discussing potential implementations, and similar discussion. Discussion about other games in this thread or anything relating to real-world social or political issues is not appropriate (anywhere on the forums). We'd also like to remind you that discussion of moderation is not permitted on the forums. Thank you for your understanding.

 

Oh, so suddenly you're aware that we've been asking for clarification for over a year? Any progress on forwarding those questions, or are you still just dumping them in the bin?

Oh, so suddenly you're aware that we've been asking for clarification for over a year? Any progress on forwarding those questions, or are you still just dumping them in the bin?

 

The silence is defeaning. Don't really know what to say anymore. Maybe the title of the thread needs to change, so we're not off-topic all the time? Just 'Same Gender Relationships in SWTOR' or something?

Edited December 12, 2012 by Lent_San

Well my sub ends in a couple days, so I won't be on to cause havoc and incitement anymore, sadly. But I'll come back and lurk, just to see if anything develops. Hopefully it does. I made a hot male Jedi Guardian the other day and I wanna get in Doc's pants right away.

Well my sub ends in a couple days, so I won't be on to cause havoc and incitement anymore, sadly. But I'll come back and lurk, just to see if anything develops. Hopefully it does. I made a hot male Jedi Guardian the other day and I wanna get in Doc's pants right away.

 

Tell me about it... . My male smuggler may die a lonely Lv1 death, if Corso doesn't become available. Probably won't resub once my current one runs out, not until SGRs are in. What for anyway, for having to buy stuff in the CM...? Naaaw...

Edited December 12, 2012 by Lent_San

Indeed. I know it was a joke when everyone else said it, but I'm thinking if BWA does put gay companions in this game, they'll honestly put them up for sale in that shop.

Indeed. I know it was a joke when everyone else said it, but I'm thinking if BWA does put gay companions in this game, they'll honestly put them up for sale in that shop.

 

 

I can see it now. "Buy the Rainbow Cartel pack and gain access to all same gender romance arcs plus a single use glitter bomb! Only 1200 cartel coins!" /me rolls eyes

 

It really is sad but I can imagine that being the next we hear about SGR. Worse though I think if that were the case the chances of it being released soon would be much higher.

The concept of 'pay for gay' has been bandied about but to be honest I don't think they'd be that outright stupid. Imagine the uproar.

 

Having said that I can imagine they might put in Cartel-only companions at some point, and those might include romanceable companions of all shades (and, in fact, I don't even think that's a bad idea - purchasing a mission start to go through a chain of quests to gain an entirely optional companion). But I don't think we'll see non-heterosexual companions only available through the Cartel Market.

I can see it now. "Buy the Rainbow Cartel pack and gain access to all same gender romance arcs plus a single use glitter bomb! Only 1200 cartel coins!"

 

What's sad is that I'd probably pay for it. Gotta do something with all those cartel coins, might as well be something worthwhile.

 

Hell, I'd honestly be content with pronoun swapping at this point. I mean, half the lines are already there. Vette specifically mentions adoption, and she even specifies that she hasn't ever "been" with a man before... why did she specify? This is just one example. Half the work is already done, if not all of it.

 

 

Could not somebody tell us why you can't tell us anything? Can we at least have that pitiful scrap?

This is why I'm glad I chose a Sith Inquisitor as my main...the romance options are pathetic no matter which side of the fence you're sitting on. Ashara Zavros or Andronikos Revel...ugh. At least this way I have a viable character class to play while waiting for EA to start considering thinking about pondering the possibility of contemplating maybe perhaps if the opportunity presents itself doing what they said they were going to do. If they feel like it, of course.

What's sad is that I'd probably pay for it. Gotta do something with all those cartel coins, might as well be something worthwhile.

 

Hell, I'd honestly be content with pronoun swapping at this point. I mean, half the lines are already there. Vette specifically mentions adoption, and she even specifies that she hasn't ever "been" with a man before... why did she specify? This is just one example. Half the work is already done, if not all of it.

 

 

Could not somebody tell us why you can't tell us anything? Can we at least have that pitiful scrap?

 

Agreed, I don't see the problem with pronoun swapping hero sexual companions. I read the arguments against it, "oh real people are more complex than that they need to make the sgra's different to show the subtle variations of how a person romances a man compared to a woman". Come on....

 

Seriously now, this isn't Shakespeare these guys are writing with the companions and the romances. I haven't seen anything in my (admittedly limited since I can't actually level till SGRA's arrive) experience with the companions we never get this deep insight into their personalities and motivations that you all are talking about.

 

They dig the hero. That's really about as far as it gets. I don't see the issue here. The whole "writer lead time" thing was just a smoke screen to begin with.

This is why I'm glad I chose a Sith Inquisitor as my main...the romance options are pathetic no matter which side of the fence you're sitting on. Ashara Zavros or Andronikos Revel...ugh. At least this way I have a viable character class to play while waiting for EA to start considering thinking about pondering the possibility of contemplating maybe perhaps if the opportunity presents itself doing what they said they were going to do. If they feel like it, of course.

Lol, that was one awesome mini-rant.