Has anyone noticed the massive increased for the cost of everything 100K for this and that. Over 600% increase in the cost of mats and drastically reduced chance of successful augment.

That costs in game money that just moves around. So. Players are simply buying Cartel Market Items and selling them in order to buy new items such as augments. and all of the sudden you can pay for instant 50 Companions. Which by the way if you don't have you get super screwed on crafting.

6.0 was small because it was designed to cater to whales who EA states account for 60% profit but less than 2% population. This explains why it was very small expansion story wise with so many bugs and a mediocre operation.

Except the pay to win isn’t going to Bioware. It’s going to the credit spammers.

I just saw your post. It's kinda both. Credit Spammers are straight to the point but should be getting people bans and Cartel Market items are now a massive advantage to "whales" who can pay for 8 x 50 companions on all of their characters while everyone else had to grind away.

I just saw your post. It's kinda both. Credit Spammers are straight to the point but should be getting people bans and Cartel Market items are now a massive advantage to "whales" who can pay for 8 x 50 companions on all of their characters while everyone else had to grind away.

The thing is, it’s easier and more economical to buy direct from the spammers because you know the conversion rate, than risk spending on the CM and then not get the price you want or sell it in a reasonable time frame.

The more people who spend with the spammers, the less money Bioware make from the CM. This is something they just don’t understand.

I pointed this out on the pts. I explained the economics of how the over the top credit sinks would encourage more than usual credit spammers and more people using them. I explained it would hit Bioware’s bottom line if the credit sink costs went ahead as they were on the pts.

Time will tell. But I’m confident in my analysis (which I laid out many times for Bioware).

Anyone trying to flip the rank 50 companion tokens on the GTN for 25-30 million is either an idiot, or hoping to find an idiot, as that item can be bought in-game for ~4 million + 3 dark projects (craft them or pay ~1.5-2 million each on GTN).

They don't flip them. Rather they skip using credits all together and have max companions running missions at 50. This initially doesn't seem to be a big deal until you realize the difference in time: 15 min vs 1hr. X 8. The massive increase in mats required for tier 11 vs 10 or below equivalents forces level 50 companions for efficiency. The Average player doesnt have a bunch of 50's. Buying them with CC gives an unfair advantage to someone who could simply pay their way to so many 50's. Hypercrates etc are being flipped as usual but at a higher rate than normal to compensate for massive cost increases. I mean blue augs 12 Mil really

It's cheaper in the long run, as far as getting companions to 50, to just buy the purples straight from the vendor for 10k each.

The only thing the conquest vendor saves you is time and clicks on your mouse.

Anyone trying to flip the rank 50 companion tokens on the GTN for 25-30 million is either an idiot, or hoping to find an idiot, as that item can be bought in-game for ~4 million + 3 dark projects (craft them or pay ~1.5-2 million each on GTN).

There are many such examples where people just use the lazieness or unknowingness of players to earn money.

Except the pay to win isn’t going to Bioware. It’s going to the credit spammers.

Yeah the credit prices on gold seller websites were up dramatically before PTS even launched since they found out that credits will be needed in 6.0

You are right about the lost value for Bioware cause people will really resort to buying from gold sellers rather than using the CM to buy and sell stuff for credits.

Has anyone noticed the massive increased for the cost of everything 100K for this and that. Over 600% increase in the cost of mats and drastically reduced chance of successful augment.

That costs in game money that just moves around. So. Players are simply buying Cartel Market Items and selling them in order to buy new items such as augments. and all of the sudden you can pay for instant 50 Companions. Which by the way if you don't have you get super screwed on crafting.

 

6.0 was small because it was designed to cater to whales who EA states account for 60% profit but less than 2% population. This explains why it was very small expansion story wise with so many bugs and a mediocre operation.

What you're describing isn't pay to win. It's closer to "pay to skip" than anything. You're not winning anything in what you're describing.

Pay to win is if you & I were playing a PVP match where I lost the first round, but then I could pay money in order to have a 100% chance at beating you in the second round. That is the literal definition of Pay To Win.

Often times now people say something they consider to be a negative as "Pay To Win" because they know people view "Pay To Win" as a negative & are hoping that whoever is reading their statement will validate them.

It's like when someone says "Ruining My Childhood" You can't present tense verb change the past tense. Someone like George Lucas can't ruin an adult's childhood by changing something in Star Wars. All he can do is disappoint their adulthood, but nobody wants to phrase it that way because they come off sound like a giant man baby so instead people latched on to the term "childhood" because a childhood is thought of as being a precious thing. The idea of a childhood being ruined is a terrible thought, but then what people actually end up using that phrase for (media entertainment) isn't actually the case at all.

What you're describing isn't pay to win. It's closer to "pay to skip" than anything. You're not winning anything in what you're describing.

 

Pay to win is if you & I were playing a PVP match where I lost the first round, but then I could pay money in order to have a 100% chance at beating you in the second round. That is the literal definition of Pay To Win.

 

Often times now people say something they consider to be a negative as "Pay To Win" because they know people view "Pay To Win" as a negative & are hoping that whoever is reading their statement will validate them.

 

It's like when someone says "Ruining My Childhood" You can't present tense verb change the past tense. Someone like George Lucas can't ruin an adult's childhood by changing something in Star Wars. All he can do is disappoint their adulthood, but nobody wants to phrase it that way because they come off sound like a giant man baby so instead people latched on to the term "childhood" because a childhood is thought of as being a precious thing. The idea of a childhood being ruined is a terrible thought, but then what people actually end up using that phrase for (media entertainment) isn't actually the case at all.

In the sense of video games the term “pay to win” describes having an advantage over another by using real world money. In no game can you pay to actually win the game. But you can pay to have the best gear quickly. EA’s biggest money making game is FIFA, nobody would argue that the game is not pay to win. You cant pay to win the game, but you can pay to get enough points to buy all the best players, giving a huge advantage.

Lots of people in this game have big stacks of credits. But returning players will need at least 30m credits to get all the BiS shells and augments. Considering the easiest way to do that is use credit sellers or Convering CM items to credits, it is a P2W mechanic.

In the sense of video games the term “pay to win” describes having an advantage over another by using real world money. In no game can you pay to actually win the game. But you can pay to have the best gear quickly. EA’s biggest money making game is FIFA, nobody would argue that the game is not pay to win. You cant pay to win the game, but you can pay to get enough points to buy all the best players, giving a huge advantage.

 

Lots of people in this game have big stacks of credits. But returning players will need at least 30m credits to get all the BiS shells and augments. Considering the easiest way to do that is use credit sellers or Convering CM items to credits, it is a P2W mechanic.

Pay To Win applied to video games refers to microtransactions, using real-world money, not in-game currency. You're really trying to stretch the definition by defining it that way because that's typically how a large number of games work.

Obviously anyone who's been playing the game longer and has amassed resources is going to have an advantage over someone who hasn't continued to keep playing, but that's pretty standard game design. What MMO doesn't work that way? What MMOs have no advantage to the players that have amassed a large number of resources when compared to new or returning players?

You and the TC are conflating the Pay To Win microtransactions to what is the standard/typical economy of these types of games. It's not Pay To Win, bad design maybe, inflated prices sure, but it's not Pay To Win.

Again you're taking a term that everybody perceives as negative and applying it to something you don't like to make the situation seem worse than it actually is.

It's not pay to win if you can earn the credits in game and relatively easy. People have been explaining many times how you can make credits with things like heroics and crafting. And then people are like "meh but I don't like that". That's fair enough but if you want something you have to put in some effort.

Now I will say that some of the cost should probably be reduced. Particularly the gold mod rip costs should be cut in half. I think it should be something like this for the ripping costs:

green - 5k

blue - 12.5k

purple - 30k

gold - 50k

It almost pretty much is there except the gold.

Also the cost increas for the amplifiers needs to be toned down, go up slower and hit a maximum at maybe 100-200k. Or something has to be done about the rng aspect. Ideally I prefer a system with fixed prices that go up as the quality goes up (green, blue, etc.) and that maybe you can deconstruct gear to unlock them first.

In any case, those two elements I find overpriced and prohibitive. The rest I'm pretty much ok with as far as I can remember.

But it's not pay to win. That's just the OP being dramatic and clutching at straws to give their opinion fake strength. The bottom line is that a few things need some toning down and people need to not be afraid to put in some effort to earn credits. And if you don't wanna do that, just ignore it and use the gear the game gives you. In the end you'll have 306 gear and set bonuses just the same. It's not like the game doesn't give you loose mods at all.

It's not pay to win if you can earn the credits in game and relatively easy. People have been explaining many times how you can make credits with things like heroics and crafting. And then people are like "meh but I don't like that". That's fair enough but if you want something you have to put in some effort.

 

Now I will say that some of the cost should probably be reduced. Particularly the gold mod rip costs should be cut in half. I think it should be something like this for the ripping costs:

green - 5k

blue - 12.5k

purple - 30k

gold - 50k

 

It almost pretty much is there except the gold.

 

Also the cost increas for the amplifiers needs to be toned down, go up slower and hit a maximum at maybe 100-200k. Or something has to be done about the rng aspect. Ideally I prefer a system with fixed prices that go up as the quality goes up (green, blue, etc.) and that maybe you can deconstruct gear to unlock them first.

 

In any case, those two elements I find overpriced and prohibitive. The rest I'm pretty much ok with as far as I can remember.

 

But it's not pay to win. That's just the OP being dramatic and clutching at straws to give their opinion fake strength. The bottom line is that a few things need some toning down and people need to not be afraid to put in some effort to earn credits. And if you don't wanna do that, just ignore it and use the gear the game gives you. In the end you'll have 306 gear and set bonuses just the same. It's not like the game doesn't give you loose mods at all.

This.

Frankly every time I see a new pay to win whine thread, I roll my eyes because I know exactly what's going to be in it and whatever the person is whining about isn't actually pay the win, rather "I'm lazy and mad the game doesn't play itself for me anymore."

This.

 

Frankly every time I see a new pay to win whine thread, I roll my eyes because I know exactly what's going to be in it and whatever the person is whining about isn't actually pay the win, rather "I'm lazy and mad the game doesn't play itself for me anymore."

Every time I see these, your lazy grind the credits arguments I roll my eyes.

It is not the fact that I can’t earn credits, it is that there is a very easy way to pay real world money that allows me not to earn the credits.

With the need for a mass amount of credits to gear, many people will reach into their wallet to bypass earning the gear. You don’t think that was a motivating force when designing this gear system?

SWTOR isn't pay to win !

SWTOR is pay to make it easier and fast for you to raise up ...

SWTOR is pay for content you like to play and people must work to make it .... (would you work for nothing)

SWTOR is maybee a pay to have some nice toys ...

SWTOR was a real pay to win ...

50% of all players have the Kotfe and Kotet chapers cleared on master mode ... cashing$$$$$$ready

Many players are on Top 1 ranked pvp leaderboard ... cashing$$$$$$done

Many have full clared NIM operation in legacy entries .... cashing$$$$$$$$$$$yea

I started in 2013 as a subscriber till now - i earned many credits ... and it make it much easier for me

to start in 6.0

Is this a shame of me ? I'm a pay to winner ?

I pay for the game - for a nice free time after work - i pay money to BW/EA to keep the game alave.

-------------------------- for you all -----------------------

And many subscibers do it too - remember this ....

Last but not least

The credit sellers on fleet is an real vendor because many players serve this offer because they are lazy

or haven't the time it need to grind for everyday - or maybe they have enough money $$$$

I know somthing need hard work in SWTOR and many time.

But - what about the great feeling to reach the personelly goal ... this feeling is unpayable

And if someone have 50 toons - omg - if you have so many kids so think twice how to feed them befor create

Anyone trying to flip the rank 50 companion tokens on the GTN for 25-30 million is either an idiot, or hoping to find an idiot, as that item can be bought in-game for ~4 million + 3 dark projects (craft them or pay ~1.5-2 million each on GTN).

Yup. This. Buy the companion level up on the CM ( with complimentary coins if you have them) , sell it for 20-30M and buy cheap dark projects and level the companions up up this way. Keep the differnece of 10-20M - easy!

Every time I see these, your lazy grind the credits arguments I roll my eyes.

 

It is not the fact that I can’t earn credits, it is that there is a very easy way to pay real world money that allows me not to earn the credits.

 

With the need for a mass amount of credits to gear, many people will reach into their wallet to bypass earning the gear. You don’t think that was a motivating force when designing this gear system?

By your logic any money sink in the game = Pay To Win. For instance, Strongholds are a huge money sink, but obviously they were designed that way so that people would spend real-world money in order to fully unlock & decorate them right?

Not everything in video game development is the conspiracy theories people like you want them to be.

It yet again comes down to you conflating a negative element that you know people don't like (Pay To Win) with a process of the game's design that you find annoying. Are you & the TC that hard up for validation that you feel you need to do that?

By your logic any money sink in the game = Pay To Win. For instance, Strongholds are a huge money sink, but obviously they were designed that way so that people would spend real-world money in order to fully unlock & decorate them right?

 

Not everything in video game development is the conspiracy theories people like you want them to be.

 

It yet again comes down to you conflating a negative element that you know people don't like (Pay To Win) with a process of the game's design that you find annoying. Are you & the TC that hard up for validation that you feel you need to do that?

Huh? Nobody would complain if microtransactions only resulted in cosmetic upgrades. That is why nobody calls Fortnight or Overwatch P2W.

Most EA games however are P2W, and this gear system is no different. In FIFA, you buy packs of player (the top end have less the 1% chance to drop), you then sell the trash players converting them to in game currency to buy the best players. It is universally known as a P2W game.

This gear system is a lot like that. You can grind the credits.....or you can buy CM items and convert them to credits. That is a P2W mechanic. You can grind your credits for years. Or I can pay 50 bucks and make 100m credits. It negates the whole grind.

P.S I reference FIFA because it is EAs biggest revenue game, and what they use to model all of their multiplayer systems.

Huh? Nobody would complain if microtransactions only resulted in cosmetic upgrades. That is why nobody calls Fortnight or Overwatch P2W.

 

Most EA games however are P2W, and this gear system is no different. In FIFA, you buy packs of player (the top end have less the 1% chance to drop), you then sell the trash players converting them to in game currency to buy the best players. It is universally known as a P2W game.

 

This gear system is a lot like that. You can grind the credits.....or you can buy CM items and convert them to credits. That is a P2W mechanic. You can grind your credits for years. Or I can pay 50 bucks and make 100m credits. It negates the whole grind.

 

P.S I reference FIFA because it is EAs biggest revenue game, and what they use to model all of their multiplayer systems.

Buying CM items to sell for credits.. is by no stretch of the imagination a "P2W" mechanic. You really don't seem to understand what P2W actually is. By your logic, even WoW's Token system is "P2W", and... it's not..

It's not "skipping the line" otherwise all of us subscribers would be P2W because if there is a login queue, we jump to the front.

Your logic of "having more credits = P2W" means that by your reasoning, someone who has played non-stop since Day 1..and amassed hundreds of millions of credits.. has Paid 2 win.. because they have more credits than you, or than a returning (or new) player..

Buying CM items to sell for credits.. is by no stretch of the imagination a "P2W" mechanic. You really don't seem to understand what P2W actually is. By your logic, even WoW's Token system is "P2W", and... it's not..

 

It's not "skipping the line" otherwise all of us subscribers would be P2W because if there is a login queue, we jump to the front.

 

Your logic of "having more credits = P2W" means that by your reasoning, someone who has played non-stop since Day 1..and amassed hundreds of millions of credits.. has Paid 2 win.. because they have more credits than you, or than a returning (or new) player..

No someone who has grinded the game since day 1 has not P2W, they have grinded. But if I spend 50 bucks and get 100m credits allowing me to buy gear at the same rate as someone who has grinded, I just P2W.

Also, I have no fear of a login queue in SWTOR.

No someone who has grinded the game since day 1 has not P2W, they have grinded. But if I spend 50 bucks and get 100m credits allowing me to buy gear at the same rate as someone who has grinded, I just P2W.

 

Also, I have no fear of a login queue in SWTOR.

have you played MMO games in your phone ? when people pay for speedups and you lose to them because they beat you with 100 times your army power and take almost no loses? that's P2W.

Warzones in this game are bolstered, same with OPS. Gear difference between a fully 306 and a 276 is unexistant due to bolster.

Even if this game didnt have a bolster, it's not that you can kill someone with 1 or 2 hits like in Asian Mmos, it takes skill and undergeared still have a great chance to win against "geared"